Arsenal/gordontech slr100h . Because it's what I have.

 

Hi!
How is a Cugir WS1-63 Ranking ?
Any idea?

Thank you guy's!

Rob

I'm trying to get in to the AK game sooner than later and was wondering if there were any recommendations on what direction to go with. I want to keep it 762x39 and prefer a fixed stock. Would like to try to get something on the cheaper end of price but am willing to pay a bit more for quality.

Any recommendations of manufactures to look at?

Let me start off by saying that any attempt to rank AKs by quality is purely subjective, so I wouldn't use this thread as a buyer's guide.

As far as known quantities:
         - Zastava NPAP or Cugir WASR - $500-$600
         - Arsenal SLR - $900-$1200
         - Arsenal SGL - $1400+
         - Saiga or Molot VEPR - market price

Unknown quantities:
         - Century C39v2 - $750 (just recently released)
         - Century RAS47 - $650 (not yet released)
         - Palmetto State Armory - $600 (not yet on the market/possible vaporware)

Professional kit builds:
         - Century M70B1 - $650
         - DDI - varies by model
         - Atlantic - varies by model
         - James River Armory - varies by model

There are more expensive options, as well. All of the guns mentioned are worth a look (or potentially worth a look, in the case of the "unknown quantities") as they're of generally good quality and have generally good reliability. As always, each individual rifle is a unique creature, so if possible, inspect the actual rifle you plan on buying before putting your money down or accepting the FFL transfer.

Good luck!

Thanks much! This was pretty much what I was looking for- some direction on what to consider. I definitely understand about them all being unique, having purchased enough of those black rifles.

Still have some learnin' to do but this gives me a jumping off point.

I'd put any one of my builds up against any manufacturer out there. I realize building your own isn't an option for some people though...With that said, I won't recommend any manufacturer as one being better than another. In my opinion, I think a blued finish is the best with the second best being Cerakote...

 

1-Arsenal 107
2-Arsenal 107
3-Arsenal SLR
4-Arsenal SLR
5-Arsenal SLR107FR
6-Arsenal SLR107FR

Why are WASR-10's such the black sheep of the ak family? I have seen beat on shot out WASRs that are still running to this day. Isn't it kind of hard to say this ak is better than this one, as long as it was put together correctly and is a factory built gun, IMHO that is all that matters.

No idea. I love em. I had one up to 10k, and my current one shot a 556 that was mixed into a magazine and hit the target at 50. Still works fine.

If you are talking about factory made variants, for the most part there is not much difference past fit and finish in my experience. Triggers can be better on some but I really can't tell much difference in my PARS Maadi, Norinco, or Intrac Romanian 74 when I shoot them. As for parts kit builds, they can be every bit the equal of factory builds if a quality receiver is used and the builder is competent. I would put my Polish and Yugo variants with NoDak spud receivers up against any, and once I tweaked the ejector on my Bulgarian 74 kit gun I have had zero issues. Of course some kit guns are built on shitty kits.I have not put any to a real test of durability as I have probably 5-6k average through them.

I can only speak based on my personal subjective opinion. The WASR-10 I purchased (from a rack of rifles I was able to cherry pick) had nasty wood, even when new and had a front sight tower that wasn't as crooked as the other crooked front sight towers I looked at. I only paid $399.00 for it on sale quite some time ago and it works, which makes it worth it.

It's a crudely made AK and leaves a lot to be desired overall. It has been more or less abused by me because I hold it in such low esteem. It has served me well, been reliable and has fired approximately 1200 rounds of corrosive ammo and cleaned really well after doing so. I suspect it is worthy of my respect, but I won't give it.

My personal opinion

Valmet M62
Galil
Chinese Polytech Legend
Chinese Polytech
Bulgarian
Russian
Chinese Norinco

all the rest......

I own  a 10/63 for blasting
A Chinese Polytech Legend for my collection

Of all the AK and AK variants I've used or have been exposed to, ranging from every major European sample to Asian examples from China and North Korea, I have found the quality order to go like this:

SAKO Rk92 and Rk95 (no real comparison)



Valmet Rk62, Rk76, and civilian series



Galil 7.62 Sniper



South African R4



Galil SAR, ARM



Norinco MAK-90 Sporter and Type 56 (barrel, receiver, bolt carrier, piston, trigger, fit and finish are unusually high quality for a nation that otherwise builds garbage)



Yugoslavian M70 ~ East German MPKiMs ~ Polish AKM



Non export or European export-only Arsenal AKs

Russian AKM and Maadi ARM





Hungarian AMD-65

Romanian PM63 and PM65  (these have noticeable differences in critical areas of the piston-to-bolt carrier that make them exceptionally inferior to a real AKM design)



North Korean Type 58 (garbage of garbage)

I've seen major problems and parts failures in the Romanian PM63s and PM65s, mainly the rivet that secures the piston to the carrier.  I don't know why they deviated from the AK design with that, but they break and work out, scoring the inside of the gas tube under high volume fire.

I've also seen a lot of Failure To Fires and FTFeeds with every type of AK except the Finnish guns, East German MPKiMS-74s, and Galils.

We could play musical chairs with everything below the Finn/SA/Galil variants and have a debate about which one sucks the least.  I've been surprised with the quality of the Chinese guns. Fit and finish is blatantly superior to the Combloc AKM pattern guns, including the Russians and Maadis, which are just crude, have some of the worst finishes on the metal that flakes and looks like gloss black spray paint.

There are little things I like and don't like about each sample.  Finnish guns are way too heavy with very thick receivers, even the stamped ones.  My best experiences have been with the East German-74s and Galil SAR carbines.  I like the Galil/R4 and Arsenal Euro-internal export selectors that you can run with your RH thumb.

Overall, the balance of AKs is just too far forward, and they are totally focused on mass production, with no real thought for human interface.

Seems like AKs are like the proverbial box of chocolates, especially when many are built from kits. I've had a bunch, mainly Yugos and Romy Gs. The only one I've kept is a Polish underfolder built by John Hittle in West Virginia. I have never heard of him but he built a hell of a sweet shooter. Best 100 yd groups I've ever gotten with irons on any platform. Sadly it's mostly a safe queen, my son prefers guitars over guns and I got it for him about 10 years ago.

I bought a Chinese Norinco 56s in 1989 when I was 18. I shot it quite a bit, stored it very poorly at my parents house for several years while I was in college and working. I kind of forgot about it. When I got it back in 1996, the whole left side of the rifle was covered in rust. I went to work on it with steel wool and got it back from far gone to ugly. It was pitted to hell but still shot well. I sold it for $1000 to a fool. I have owned all sorts of high quality AK's over the years, but I have to say Arsenal is at the top for me.    The build quality is there with the up to date features that you want in a modern AK. That said, never say no to a Chinese AK.

I have several AK’s now, and some are really neat and valuable, but none are as cool looking or fun as my Draco. It’s a real beauty, and Romanian quality is pretty good these days. Absolutely nothing wrong with it, especially since pistols don’t need to obey 922r, so the entire gun was built in Romania (yes, dimpled receiver and all).

The Romanian underfolder is my second choice since it is really cool too. Other great options right now are the WBP Lynx Pistol (Polish), and the good ole NPAP M70 (also comes in underfolder). I usually don’t recommend Arsenal (Bulgarian) because they are too expensive for beginners. On the used market my favorite is the Chinese MAK-90 because they are still relatively affordable.

Was just listening to a live feed with LAV and Ian from Forgotten Weapons where Larry says a lot of good things about the current Arsenal USA AKs.

Molot and Milled Arsenal.......

.....the rest.

Since this thread keeps getting kicked around, I'll throw my two cents in. Based on the AK's I currently own, or have owned, below is the order I would rank them. Some are from the same country, as you can see, but it doesn't make sense to rank AK's by country because quality can differ. There isn't a huge difference between the AK's listed below other than with the Chinese AK's and the M70ab2. The Chinese AK's are by far much higher quality than the others listed and, although the M70ab2 is a great rifle that's worth the current market price, it's doesn't compare to the others listed. Some like to claim Chinese AK's are cheap garbage, but I can assure you that those individuals have no idea what they are talking about. I have a lot of time behind each of the below AK's, and have no reason to be bias. Other than the M70ab2, I would recommend all of the AK's below. The only reason I wouldn't recommend the M70ab2 is because the majority of them are non-matching parts kits built by unknown builders contracted by Century Arms. They are great, well built rifles, but just not what I look for in an AK.

1) Chinese Polytech Spiker (Currently own)

2) Chinese Type 56s (Currently own and most accurate AK I own)

3) Chinese Mak90 "caught in customs" underfolder (Currently own)

4) Bulgarian milled SAM7sf (Currently own)

5) Russian Vepr (Currently own)

6) Russian SGL21 (Currently own)

7) Century Yugo M70ab2 (Sold)