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Armatissimi e liberissimi.
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Posted: 12/20/2005 8:46:53 AM EST






Norinco 7.62x54R NDM-86
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Posted: 12/20/2005 6:06:17 PM EST
You are not playing around with the tape are you? Looks great!
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Posted: 12/20/2005 6:11:43 PM EST
cool, more info and a range report please
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Posted: 12/21/2005 5:02:57 AM EST
is that a Romy PSL mag i see on the table? do they fit and run right?
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Posted: 12/21/2005 10:15:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By The_Rookie:
is that a Romy PSL mag i see on the table? do they fit and run right?



You do indeed see one Romy PSL mag on the table.

They DO NOT work in the SVD.

Ask me how I know?

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Posted: 12/21/2005 3:34:05 PM EST
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/19731DSC01483e6.JPG

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Posted: 12/21/2005 4:23:24 PM EST
Great rifles, Hilljack.

I had a Tiger in Russian polymer exactly like yours, but I never fired it. After shooting my full-size Drag I couldn't imagine an even lighter and shorter barrel version of that cannon.

I sold it to a KBR contractor. Actually it was a prtial trade for... oh, you guys will see soon...

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Posted: 12/21/2005 4:32:56 PM EST



Here's my Russin.
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Posted: 12/21/2005 4:52:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By pmbss396:
img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-1/929776/SVD025.jpg
img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-1/929776/SVD030.jpg

Here's my Russin.



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Posted: 12/21/2005 6:14:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By Thekatar:
img223.imageshack.us/img223/9982/ndm86rangereport0025mm.jpg

img223.imageshack.us/img223/3152/ndm86rangereport0035rr.jpg

img403.imageshack.us/img403/5710/dragpr0n0105yu.jpg

Norinco 7.62x54R NDM-86



Sweet!
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Posted: 12/21/2005 6:15:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By Hilljack:
www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/19731DSC01483e6.JPG




Also sweet!
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Posted: 12/21/2005 6:15:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By pmbss396:
img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-1/929776/SVD025.jpg
img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-1/929776/SVD030.jpg

Here's my Russin.



.................................Sweet!

I'm jealous of all you guys.
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Posted: 12/22/2005 12:53:39 AM EST
One of my .308 NDM-86's, this one w/the 8x42D Pro w/mildot reticle.
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Posted: 12/22/2005 3:00:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tomac:
One of my .308 NDM-86's, this one w/the 8x42D Pro w/mildot reticle.
Tomac
www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/97New_8x42_Scope_For_NDM86_003s.jpg



Nice Tomac! How do you like the PRO? I just bought one for a 308 VEPR I am buying after Christmas.
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Posted: 12/22/2005 4:55:49 AM EST
Man i gotta get me one of those!!!!
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Posted: 12/22/2005 5:30:14 AM EST
Quit already. I've been looking for a NDM-86 for a while with no luck. Nice guns, keep me in mind if yall decide to sell.
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Posted: 12/22/2005 3:04:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By BiggerStick47:

Originally Posted By Tomac:
One of my .308 NDM-86's, this one w/the 8x42D Pro w/mildot reticle.
Tomac
www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/97New_8x42_Scope_For_NDM86_003s.jpg



Nice Tomac! How do you like the PRO? I just bought one for a 308 VEPR I am buying after Christmas.



If you want the most precision then definitely go w/the Pro w/mildot reticle & .5moa adjustments. If you want fast ranging/shooting w/military "minute of torso" accuracy then try the 1P21.
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Posted: 12/25/2005 3:56:12 PM EST
where can I find one of these? I would love to have one. ANYONE help me find one or know where one is.
Todd

toddray@justshootn.com

please email
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Posted: 12/25/2005 5:59:05 PM EST
www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/semi4sale.cgi?read=123612

www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/semi4sale.cgi?read=123236

www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=41492465

ak47.net/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=122&t=316069
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Posted: 12/26/2005 12:53:52 PM EST
Man I love them, but they are out of my price range :( how about a clone??
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Posted: 12/26/2005 5:01:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By bigbearhunter:
Man I love them, but they are out of my price range :( how about a clone??



The Russian SVD, the NDM-86 and the Tiger are real Dragunov's. The Iraqi's made one as well, but good luck getting one.

Nothing else is a clone.
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Posted: 12/26/2005 5:11:54 PM EST
OK, maybe I'm an idiot.......Why do you have that big piece of duct tape on an otherwise nice rifle?
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Posted: 12/26/2005 5:28:10 PM EST
You may be an idiot, but I can't tell from your question, which is perfectly reasonable.

The only thing "substandard" on the Chinese Drag is the lousy paint job. All Drags have a tendency od dinging their own receiver covers when they eject a casing.

The tape protects the paint on the receiver cover.
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Posted: 12/26/2005 5:29:14 PM EST
OK cool. I would've guessed that, but I wanted to know.
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Posted: 12/26/2005 6:54:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/26/2005 6:57:02 PM EST by Stottman]
Not mine but still neat-
















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Posted: 12/27/2005 4:03:43 AM EST
Hey stottman, You got any bigger pics of that rifle?
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Posted: 12/27/2005 11:39:27 AM EST
TangoDown ACB-4 Advanced Combat Bipod




and...


SVD / Tigr tactical handguards (2-piece)




Thought it might be interesting. I know Tomac has experimented with the receiver-mounted Russian bipod and found it wanting. This is obviously not a free-float but who knows it might be worth checking out.
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Posted: 12/27/2005 3:10:32 PM EST
Interesting indeed! However, I'm tapped out at the moment, I'm afraid someone else will have to be the guinea pig for this one!...
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Posted: 12/27/2005 3:24:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/22/2007 12:52:19 PM EST by TX-Zen]
Edit - Changed hosting provider

54R and 308



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Posted: 12/27/2005 3:44:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/22/2007 12:53:40 PM EST by TX-Zen]
Changed to 308 in all it's glory:



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Posted: 12/27/2005 7:44:12 PM EST
http://tinypic.com/j97gj5.jpg
http://tinypic.com/j97gqv.jpg
http://tinypic.com/j97h5f.jpg
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Posted: 12/28/2005 4:16:56 AM EST
Welcome azdskin!

azdskin bought the Tiger in his pic from me with a partial trade for a Marshall Arms AK105.

I got the Russian poly furniture off of Tantal but never installed it. Looks great on the rifle!
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Posted: 12/28/2005 4:28:08 AM EST
That tiger looks alot smaller with someone holding it!
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:25:27 PM EST
man those are nice rifles. my roomate years ago had one and i drooled on it constantly.

why can't we get some dragunovs made here, if there are places like ORF and Arsenal cranking out nice ak's?
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Posted: 12/30/2005 3:41:11 AM EST
Considering it would be a low volume piece, I bet they probably cannot produce one cheaper than they are already selling for on the secondary market.
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Posted: 12/30/2005 5:59:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By Carb850:
Considering it would be a low volume piece, I bet they probably cannot produce one cheaper than they are already selling for on the secondary market.



+1
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Posted: 12/30/2005 6:10:01 AM EST


Picture of the Tiger I used to own. I really liked the gun a lot but mostly as a collector piece.
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Posted: 12/30/2005 10:26:27 AM EST
Thats some nice looking wood there Carb, awesome color.



Z
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Posted: 12/30/2005 6:45:18 PM EST
Thanks for the pics Rob,now you've inspired me to up-grade my Tiger's gas system!
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Posted: 12/30/2005 7:12:07 PM EST
for you guys that own one...how accurate are these things really? ive always wanted one.
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Posted: 12/31/2005 1:30:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/31/2005 1:31:52 AM EST by TX-Zen]
Mine is 54r and shoots about 2-4 inch groups at 100 yards with wolf 148gr FMJ. Czech silvertip 148gr is very similar, maybe a little tighter depending on the particular box I'm shooting out of.
WWB 200gr gave about 4 inch group at 100 yards and is a little heavier on the shoulder.

At 300 yards the wolf 148gr opened up for me a lot, I was consistently hitting a 12" x 18" Shoot N C target but wasn't getting particularly tight patterns. Frankly I have a lot to learn about shooting this rifle, all my 200-300 yard experience has been with M16A2 and irons, so with the NDM I find that I have learn how to adjust for the recoil and use the scope properly.

There is no doubt in my mind this rifle can do better, the limitation here is clearly me but as time goes on the groups get better and better. A friend is cooking up some hand loads for it, next step is to slug the bore to get a good sizing. From there we'll probably be able to come up with a consistent round that will do well and then its practice practice practice.



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Posted: 12/31/2005 5:40:21 AM EST
I either got a 1.7" or 2.3" (cannot remember which) grouping using Wolf 147gr ammo. And that was with one flier. I'm sure the rifle could have done in others hands.
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Posted: 12/31/2005 8:00:18 AM EST
Here is my first and only outing so far. The target was 100m and I was firing Wolf.




Best 3 shot group:




The SVD is misnamed as a sniper rifle, it is a squad support rifle. The 7.62x54R is not super accurate, probably 2.5 moa on average. I know that the .308 versions have a much better reputation for accuracy.

On my end, I was shooting this thing for the first time. I never had any experience with anything even similar. The Chinese/Russian scope is not really designed for precision IMO, no traditional crosshairs. I only had 100m to shake this bitch out, I'd like to really get settled in at around 300m sometime.
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Posted: 12/31/2005 8:39:49 AM EST
Here's my "old" Dragunov. I wish I still had it for the collection but damn it, it just wouldn't group worth a damn. I still even have a case of East German factory 81 (or 88, I forget?) code ammo but it shot like shit. Sure LOOKED cool though!!!!! Anyway........squad support is RIGHT! I spent a lot of time breaking in the barrel and treating it right but it just shot like carp from 100 to 300 yards. Couldn't justify keeping a $3000 + rifle (at the time) that didn't shoot. I know it's a big pic, if any MOD's want to resize, feel free...............

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Posted: 1/2/2006 6:04:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/22/2007 12:56:27 PM EST by TX-Zen]
54R, 148gr Wolf FMJ through 8x42 POSP at 300 yards, target is 12 inches by 18 inches. I'm not one for tight groups I guess, as long as I can hit a man size target i'm happy.



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Posted: 1/4/2006 5:28:50 PM EST
Here is what they are certified to in Russia
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Posted: 1/5/2006 2:54:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 2:55:27 AM EST by Tomac]
Using Georgia Arms "Canned Heat" .308 168gr budget match ammo & a cheap Russian 8x scope my personal best 4-shot ctc group at 100yds w/my NDM-86 is .44":


My personal best 3-shot ctc group at 100yds is .24":


My personal best 3-shot ctc group at 500m is 4.5" (notice the 2 shots at the upper left):


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Posted: 1/5/2006 1:23:30 PM EST
Well Tomac, thats it, I'm getting a damn 308 as soon as I can find one.

From a friend to a friend, you probably better not come over to my house anytime soon, when the wife finds out that you clinched it for me, she probably will be none too pleased with you.


In all honesty I figured the 308 was going to be the better shooter of the 2 and have always planned to get them both (SHHHHHH) but the 54R came along first and I couldn't pass it up.
I am pleased to see actual groupings of the 308 though, it means that sub moa accuracy is not out of the question, though I am sure I will have to experiment to get the right match for the rifle I end up with and won't be expecting instant results. Very promising though.

Thanks for posting the pics and my compliments on the black polymer furniture...been really considering getting a set myself, but temporarily holding off for another project that might come to fruition. I think I have found a machinist who can create a custom piece to fit the SVDS folding stock to a standard NDM86. It will be a few months before the hardware arrives from our friend Andrei/ruseller, but the machinist is pretty sure he can do it for under a grand. For me thats worth it because of how much I adore the SVD, but good god, DON'T TELL MY WIFE.

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Posted: 1/5/2006 2:39:29 PM EST
damn! nice groups Tomac.
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Posted: 1/5/2006 3:33:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By mrmoshzilla:
damn! nice groups Tomac.



Thanks! I'm going to try shooting for group size at 900m when the weather warms up a bit.
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Posted: 1/5/2006 3:39:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By TX-Zen:
Well Tomac, thats it, I'm getting a damn 308 as soon as I can find one.

From a friend to a friend, you probably better not come over to my house anytime soon, when the wife finds out that you clinched it for me, she probably will be none too pleased with you.


In all honesty I figured the 308 was going to be the better shooter of the 2 and have always planned to get them both (SHHHHHH) but the 54R came along first and I couldn't pass it up.
I am pleased to see actual groupings of the 308 though, it means that sub moa accuracy is not out of the question, though I am sure I will have to experiment to get the right match for the rifle I end up with and won't be expecting instant results. Very promising though.

Thanks for posting the pics and my compliments on the black polymer furniture...been really considering getting a set myself, but temporarily holding off for another project that might come to fruition. I think I have found a machinist who can create a custom piece to fit the SVDS folding stock to a standard NDM86. It will be a few months before the hardware arrives from our friend Andrei/ruseller, but the machinist is pretty sure he can do it for under a grand. For me thats worth it because of how much I adore the SVD, but good god, DON'T TELL MY WIFE.
Z



Mums the word! IMHO the 7.62x54 would give the .308 a good run for its money if a decent lightweight match load was available (but it isn't so that's the main reason I went w/the .308 and am glad I did!). The .308 NDM-86's seem to love 168gr match loads, the Georgia Arms "Canned Heat" I use is only $450/1,000rds. Plus, I've got a certified Drag mechanic locally (how lucky is that?) who's done the trigger jobs on all my NDM-86's. I think the .308 will consistently shoot sub-moa w/good ammo/glass & a good shooter, perhaps .5moa. I have to wonder what the results would be w/the best ammo/shooter/glass available...
Tomac
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