Campybob, maybe you have more info on this but this does not sound to good at all.  I realy like Kieth and though I have only met him once I thought and still think he is a patriot and a stand up guy.  

www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/News/82919C110FDC8CCF86256C760021ECBF?OpenDocument&Headline=+Top+cops+aided+plot+to+acquire+AK-47s

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Top cops aided plot to acquire AK-47s
BY PETER SHINKLE
Post-Dispatch
11/18/2002 10:11 PM



ATF confiscated 372 automatic weapons from a Ohio gun dealer charged in trying to smuggle them past federal restrictions.
(Samuel Leone/P-D)
Federal agents raided the Lincoln County property of James Carmi in October 2000 and seized a stockpile of 800 machine guns.

The event, which remained undisclosed to the public for two years, has spurred a massive investigation into how Carmi - a convicted felon - could get a federal firearms permit from the U.S. Treasury's Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and then acquire so many strictly controlled weapons.

Late Monday afternoon, a jury in federal court in St. Louis convicted a man from Ohio of conspiring with Carmi and a small-town police chief to falsify paperwork to import hundreds of machine guns from Bulgaria, Poland and Russia in 1999 and 2000.

ATF agents had seized 372 machine guns from the defendant, Keith B. Baranski of Hopewell, Ohio.

Together with weapons taken from other potential defendants, the total of 1,500 machine guns ranks as the largest seizure of automatic weapons in the history of the agency, an ATF spokesman said.

Prosecutors told the jury that Baranski boasted in a letter to Carmi that the Yak-B "aircraft cannon" they hoped to import had never been sold in the United States before, and that the Russian AK-47 assault rifle would "sell like hot cakes."

Baranski and the other defendants conspired to bribe the police chief into writing a fraudulent letter to get ATF approval for the imports, prosecutors said.

Baranski claimed he wanted the weapons for legitimate sales to law enforcement. But prosecutors said the weapons - including an anti-aircraft gun - were extremely unlikely to be used by police.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Jim Martin told the jury in closing arguments Monday that Baranski in fact had intended to sell all of his weapons to Carmi, a prospect he said was "very scary."

Painting a picture of a machine gun import scheme run amok, Martin asked, "Who knows who they're being sold to?"

Testimony at the trial in fact showed that most of the weapons Baranski imported were seized from a warehouse in Kentucky. Dawson, of the ATF, said his agency's effort to determine what Carmi did with all of his guns might take years.

After the verdict, U.S. District Judge Charles Shaw told prosecutors and ATF agents that he was extremely concerned about the regulation of machine guns. Federal law bans possession of the weapons except by the military, law enforcement, manufacturers, dealers and collectors.

"What I am really worried about is how all these guns got into the country in the first place," Shaw said.

Under the law, a dealer can import a machine gun by getting a letter from a police agency that says it wants to see or buy it.

Prosecutors said that Carmi and Baranski got such letters from tiny police departments in Missouri and New Mexico that had neither need nor the budget for the weapons.

Shaw complained that the government let the weapons into the country with a simple letter from an "Andy Griffith police department," a reference to the small-town sheriff of TV fame.

But Martin, the assistant U.S. attorney, noted that while Carmi and Baranski had sought to import 90,000 machine guns, they only succeeded in getting a little more than 400 of them into the country.

"The ATF worked very hard to stop this guy," Martin said. "The ATF was relying on the integrity of the people filing these applications. They were filed under penalty of perjury."

But when the trial started last week, Martin seemed to concede the agency's procedures could have a weak spot. "They were relying on the honesty and integrity of the people submitting these applications. As you'll see, that was a big mistake when it comes to the defendant."

Doug Dawson, a spokesman for ATF, said the agency does not have the authority to control the weapons a police department uses. "How are we to know if it's an Andy Griffith department or it's a large department? Nowhere in the law does it say it's up to the ATF to scrutinize these requests."

He added that Congress may need to revisit the 1986 law that banned the weapons and established a system for regulating their importation, possession and sales.

Carmi, who pleaded guilty last year and testified for the government in the case last week, said he routinely bribed police officials to write the necessary letters.

Indeed, the police chief of Farber, Mo., Jeff Knipp, pleaded guilty Feb. 6 to one count of knowingly making false entries on an application to import firearms. Farber is about 65 miles northwest of St. Louis.

Knipp, who testified in the government's case against Baranski, said he agreed to request a demonstration of dozens of machine guns by Baranski's company, even though he was not really interested in a demonstration or in acquiring them for his three-man department.

Knipp said he wrote the letter in exchange for getting a machine gun for himself. He said he also asked Carmi for cash.

Another agency that wrote a letter requesting a demonstration by Baranski was the sheriff's office of Jemez Springs, N.M. The deputy who signed the letter also received a machine gun, but the ATF denied that request after the sheriff rescinded the letter, Martin said.

Yet Carmi said he had gotten law enforcement letters from numerous agencies, including the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

A NASA spokesman confirmed the agency uses machine guns at some of its sites but said he could not confirm whether it wrote any letters requesting weapons from Carmi.

Carmi said he told Baranski of his scheme for bribing police officers. "They wanted something and I wanted something. It was a business relationship," he testified.

Carmi is serving a 42-month prison term after pleading guilty last year to a firearms import violation and money laundering.

"I sold several thousand guns, and I think I sold two or three to police agencies," he testified.

Because of requirements of the National Firearms Act, police officers were central to his plans to get machine guns, and he explained that fact to Baranski when they first met in the fall of 1999, Carmi testified.

"I told him the best way to do it is to find a police officer who likes guns and give him a present, give him a rifle," he said.

Carmi, who has convictions for marijuana distribution and other crimes, testified that he got a federal firearm license by applying under the name of his brother, David Carmi. He and his wife ran the business, Vic's Gun Corp., from their home near Elsberry in Lincoln County.

He testified that the two men met in 1999 when Baranski called him after seeing an advertisement Carmi placed in the Shotgun News.

Baranski said Carmi's home was piled high with machine gun parts, and Carmi was "paranoid." But after a while, he said, Carmi opened a bookshelf case to display a vault of machine guns.

Eventually, Baranski paid $1,360 to buy an "operational briefcase," which can carry a machine gun inside and operate it by pulling a trigger.

Baranski, who manned an anti-aircraft gun during the Persian Gulf War and attended gun shows with his father since he was a child, insisted he did not plan to use the briefcase weapon to kill anyone.

Reporter Peter Shinkle:

E-mail: [email protected]

Phone: 314-621-5804

whoa

That's some pretty f'd up sheite.

I suppose there won't be as many fun toys at Bulletfest this coming year?

Sounds a bit sensationalist to me.  He bought a tactical briefcase...oh my..run for your lives.  That will obviously make him a stone-cold killer!:(

So the ATF gave a convicted felon (Carmi) an FFL, and apparently a Class3, and Keith is somehow to blame for that?  And these guns that they brought in to go to police officers....they act like that's a totally uncontrolled sale..almost like Baranski and Carmi are selling them to crack dealers out of the back of his truck.  

Even if they were going to sell them to non-PDs, they were probably going to sell them to dealers and manufacturers as post-samples, which is quite different than the picture they paint.  It's a crime where generally nobody is hurt, because these people could just as easily LEGALLY MAKE MACHINE GUNS!  People want the real thing because they're collectors, not because they want to mow down the youth of the nation.

There might be tidbits of truth to this article, and I don't have all the facts, but it's clearly sensationalized.

take care,
Tec

I agree Tec Nine but sensationalism aside, it appears that Chief Thunder(Kieth Baranski) has been convicted and awaits sentencing.

Late Monday afternoon, a jury in federal court in St. Louis convicted a man from Ohio of conspiring with Carmi and a small-town police chief to falsify paperwork to import hundreds of machine guns from Bulgaria, Poland and Russia in 1999 and 2000.

It appears that who he was selling the guns to is not the issue but that falsification of the paperwork to get them imported was what he got convicted of.

No mention of illegal mags or ammo. Just "machineguns".

All I wanted for X-mas was a case or 3 of the WASP ammo...

I do have a serious question though. The photo that accompanies the link to the original story shows a bunch of intact rifles. From what I've gathered from Global's ad's, the parts kits come in that way. So my question is, do the receivers get cut here or abroad?

It would seem the felon would (should) be the person getting burned here instead of someone he's done business with. I'm sure the LEO's were thrilled to have been referred to as "Andy Griffiths"--(didn't they mean "Barney Fifes" ?) Hope we can get all the facts without the media twist.

I agree with Campy. We talked about Chief at the Creek.....good guy when EVER I talked to him on the phone....so maybe his personna on the internet wasn't the best....the guy was square with me. I hope all this is a mistake. If not, God bless ya Chief.

Quoted: i have heard various and sundry rumors over the last year and a half, but i only had one side of the story. i feel bad for keith...he always treated me fairly. i hope he comes thru this and gets on with his life.

Unfortunately, the guidelines on importing 1500 illegal machineguns and conspiring to import 90,000 machineguns are going to be pretty steep.  Not to mention he fought it in court and apparently didn't turn evidence, so he will do close to the max(or the max).  When you say things like I hope he gets on with his life, remember that you are probably talking about a day 20-30 years from now.


-SS

Quoted: Shaw complained that the government let the weapons into the country with a simple letter from an "Andy Griffith police department," a reference to the small-town sheriff of TV fame. . . . Doug Dawson, a spokesman for ATF, said the agency does not have the authority to control the weapons a police department uses. "How are we to know if it's an Andy Griffith department or it's a large department? Nowhere in the law does it say it's up to the ATF to scrutinize these requests."

One thing I find very interesting is the U.S. District Judge and the ATF spokesman driving the wedge of class division between the (undeserving hick) PD's and the (much more elite) PD's.

BlammO, I thought the same thing. Federal prosecutors, judges, atf or anyone else involved refering to ANY police dept. as "Andy Griffiths" is highly questionable in my somewhat narrow-minded book. For one thing, that comment should be a compliment. Now if we're talking "Barney Fife", it would be the actual intended insult. Perhaps,,,


?

I recall the chief stating that the feds wanted him to roll over on another dealer(s), but he stated he wouldn't...  Seems like Carmi is the bigger fish in this case - I wonder if Carmi is the guy they wanted him to testify against.  Would be very ironic, since Carmi ended up ratting him out in the end.  Seems like the feds may have been simply trying to stick it to him as an "example" of what happens to those who won't cooperate with them...

Rocko

Quoted: I recall the chief stating that the feds wanted him to roll over on another dealer(s), but he stated he wouldn't...  Seems like Carmi is the bigger fish in this case - I wonder if Carmi is the guy they wanted him to testify against.  Would be very ironic, since Carmi ended up ratting him out in the end.  Seems like the feds may have been simply trying to stick it to him as an "example" of what happens to those who won't cooperate with them...

That's SOP (standard operating procedure). The Feds do the same thing in fraud and drug investigations.  They start off with the person that they believe is the least envolved (which isn't always the case) and they ask to co-operate.  If the person does then a lot of times they will either walk or get a greatly reduced sentence (and charge).  If they don't co-operate then the feds move on to the next person until they get someone who will sing (which was the right thing to do in the beginning because they already had you or they wouldn't have been talking).

The conviction rate in Federal Court is, by the way, 98 percent.


-SS

A successfuly salesman is ALWAYS going to come off as being nice and reasonable to you his customer.  If he doesn't, if he's a complete and utter Ahole even part of the time or deals dirty with his customers any significant fraction of the time, he is going out of business.  So, when a guy who hopes to sell you something comes off as the nicest guy in the world, don't believe that that is who he is. It may be, but it may not be.

Sounds like Baranski was playing fast and loose with the law regarding the importation and sale of machineguns.  That's a pretty nasty law to be messing with.  Falsifying records to get around provisions of such a law is ILLEGAL.  Is it constitutional?  It doesn't really matter unless you are willing to fight to SCOTUS and they rule with you.  Otherwise the law is what they prosecute you on.

Sounds like Baranski and Carmi broke the law not once, but many times in order to import and sell their MGs. Play with fire and you get burned.  Unfortunately unethical guys like these burn the rest of us with them calling down the fire of further legislation through their actions.

As far as the legitimate gun community is concerned...we need to be certain whose horse we are backing.  Just because someone is being prosecuted for a gun crime doesn't mean that the prosecution is wrong and the prosecutee is a hero.  A lot of the time the prosecutee is wrong, having knowingly violated the law for personal gain.

You can put the civil disobedience card away as well, because in civil disobedience a person seeks actively to become an example of a bad law and places themselves in the way of prosecution willingly so that they can fight it publicly.  These guys apparently did not do that. They were simply seeking to bypass a law that they didn't like.  That's not someone I would like to put up as poster child for gun rights.

What did this have to do with mags, I thought that was what the chief was in trouble for?  100% Definitely this is the Chief, correct?  If so I guess he wasn't filling us in on what he getting busted for.

Great,   Potentially every Krink kit he sold could be confiscated.  If it is determined they were illegally or fraudulently imported, they will become contraband where ever they are........    

I always had a bad sense about this guy, never met him, never spoke to him, gut reaction...  Sometimes listening to your instincts is good.

Quoted: I always had a bad sense about this guy, never met him, never spoke to him, gut reaction...  Sometimes listening to your instincts is good.

In my experience, he is a nice guy who kept his word and delivered a good product.  I have spoken to him over the phone.

I also don't have a problem with him using extra-cirricular efforts to get guns.  But I do think he was an idiot.  Because if you are dealing in a grey area, the last thing you want to do is flaunt it in the face of the authorities, which is exactly what his gang did.  And that's probably why he got busted.

-SS

I don't think the guys with the krinkov kits will have any problems, but who knows.  The issue seems to be the complete, functional MG's he imported.  The krinkov kits were obviously virgin, unassembled kits.  The issue with the UZI kits were really the pieces of the receiver that were still attached and sold with the kits.  Without any portion of the receiver included with the krink kits, I don't think there's much to worry about.

Rocko

On the basis of the physical condition of the kits you are correct.  However, if they were imported on the same form six as some of the guns that were confiscated, then they too could be considered contraban.  Not because they were machineguns, but because the form six was legaly compromised.  There is no way to know untill the ATF issues a public statement to his customers.  I believe it won't come to that but you never know.

It sickens me to hear people talk like this about the Chief.  The chief has done more for gun owners than most of this board put together.  There are a ton of arm chair warriors out their, but very few who would actually put their butt (no pun intended) on the line and go up against the ATF.  The chief could have taken a plea and gotten no jail time if only he would have given up his $3,000,000 worth of goods that are stuck in hock.

Without hte Chief Krink kits would still be $900, mags and eveything else ridiculouslly priced.  I for one still support he Chief and would like to see him beat this someday.  

The only gun law that is constitutional is the 2nd amendment.  It takes someone to get caught and thrown in jail to overturn the unconstititional laws that are on the books that are being enforced.  I for one do not have the balls to be that person, but hte Chief does.