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Posted: 6/16/2017 8:18:45 PM EDT
[#1]
It was the bees knees because of the echo chamber, just like a lot of things in the gun world.
Ultimak is definitely an effective way to mount a red dot but it is not the only way and never has been. It's also limited to a micro red dot and means you miss out on other optics which may have different strengths or are more suitable for different purposes. And it obviously makes cleaning the rifle more difficult which can be a boogey man for corrosive ammo I use the Ultimak and have for a long time but I prefer the dot closer to my eye. I like the RS mounts in particular. You drop the disadvantages of the Ultimak for about a 4 ounce weight penalty, but it opens up a ton of other options even if you only want another red dot Z |
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Posted: 6/16/2017 9:47:10 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was the bees knees because of the echo chamber, just like a lot of things in the gun world. Ultimak is definitely an effective way to mount a red dot but it is not the only way and never has been. It's also limited to a micro red dot and means you miss out on other optics which may have different strengths or are more suitable for different purposes. And it obviously makes cleaning the rifle more difficult which can be a boogey man for corrosive ammo I use the Ultimak and have for a long time but I prefer the dot closer to my eye. I like the RS mounts in particular. You drop the disadvantages of the Ultimak for about a 4 ounce weight penalty, but it opens up a ton of other options even if you only want another red dot Z |
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Posted: 6/16/2017 9:52:33 PM EDT
[#3]
mhe. I shoot corrosive and have no issues with my Ultimak. That being said, it's not the end all for sure. Zen has all kinds of cool toys I get to play with, which is probably why I haven't change my ultimak redot combo.
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Posted: 6/16/2017 11:03:13 PM EDT
[#4]
I still think its the best there is.
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Posted: 6/16/2017 11:51:13 PM EDT
[#5]
I resisted the urge to put on an Ultimak because of the heat issue after a bit of shooting. Since Magpul came out with the MOE AK HGs that somewhat shield the Ultimak from the shooter's hand and therefore the heat, I put one on with a TRS-25 to give it a try. I'm happy with the results and have since bought a second setup indentical to the first for another AK.
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Posted: 6/17/2017 2:13:52 AM EDT
[#6]
I tried using a forward mounted red dot on my AK. I didn't care for it. I went with an RS Regulate combo and never looked back. Actually the AKOU has some good combos. The Primary Arms 3x Prism Scope (ACSS) is damn near bulletproof. But your gonna need to mount that one over the dust cover. I've heard that the TWS Dogleg Gen3 is a great option as well.
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Posted: 6/17/2017 7:39:49 PM EDT
[#7]
I vote for RS Regulate + Micro dot.
I have the setup on one of my AKs and really like the way it looks and feels. I don't think putting a 2MOA dot close to your face as opposed to at the end of the rifle makes that much difference on precision. |
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Posted: 6/17/2017 11:11:26 PM EDT
[#8]
I'm curious about the Midwest tube instead. I'd prefer not to clamp the barrel myself.
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Posted: 6/18/2017 11:28:06 PM EDT
[#9]
No.
I have the micro dot forward mounted and its great. I also have several other systems and they are great too. I tend to shoot my obzor the most and my 1-4 Vortex the second most. Of my 7 (8?) AK's only 2 have the same optic. There is no best, just personal preference, and I prefer several of them. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 4:33:22 AM EDT
[#10]
RS Regulate + AKML + Micro Dot
I tried the Ultimak + Micro Dot combo and didn't really care for it. I like the more balanced feel of using an optic with the side rail, or on something like a TWS cover. Plus if you're using the side rail and a good mount like the RS, you can usually slide the optic off if you want to run strictly irons, or maybe even change to a different optic. Seems to RTZ pretty well for me. |
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Posted: 6/24/2017 11:29:26 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I tried using a forward mounted red dot on my AK. I didn't care for it. I went with an RS Regulate combo and never looked back. Actually the AKOU has some good combos. The Primary Arms 3x Prism Scope (ACSS) is damn near bulletproof. But your gonna need to mount that one over the dust cover. I've heard that the TWS Dogleg Gen3 is a great option as well. Ultimak + micro red dot ftw |
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Posted: 6/25/2017 1:49:38 PM EDT
[#12]
I tried that setup first and wasn't crazy about having my RDS that far away from my eye.
Before switching to RS regulate, I modified a cheap mount from Amazon to fit my Yugo. It worked well enough and held zero. However it seemed fragile. I switched to RS regulate and haven't regretted a thing. |
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Posted: 6/25/2017 1:50:08 PM EDT
[#13]
Attero Arms bravo mount and Micro FTW
Switched from Ultimak 2 years or so ago and never regretted it |
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Posted: 6/25/2017 4:47:34 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I cannot trust an optic mounted on the dust cover 
Z |
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Posted: 6/26/2017 8:28:35 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ZenitCo B33 topcover + B10 handguard gets it right. I've been testing with Kashtan P1 and it has been solid as a rock. It was designed for AKs with GP30 grenade launcher. Seems to be properly engineered http://zenphotos.net/zenPhotos/File/Online/SVD/optics/1P78_P1_SGL31_DBAL-A3_ZenitCoB10-B33_Left01.jpg Z |
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Posted: 6/26/2017 9:10:45 PM EDT
[#16]
There's other options out there to be sure, but I've yet to find a better one for me than the Ultimak... And I've tried almost every one.
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Posted: 6/27/2017 3:36:50 PM EDT
[#17]
I run a TRS-25 red dot on a railed upper handguard on my WASR, Draco & VZ-2008.
I tried a side mount for a while and while it's great for magnified optics I felt it wasn't as balanced as a red dot mounted forward. I shoot corrosive ammo on a regular basis and haven't had any issues with my optics when I'm flushing the gas tube with hot water. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 12:07:33 AM EDT
[#18]
I have large hands, not a fan of metal gas tubes because my fingers will end up getting up there.
I like my midwest mount with Aimpoint compM3. One piece and just low enough to co witness. The RS mounts are where its at for anything besides a 30mm red dot in my opinion. |
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Posted: 6/28/2017 12:55:23 AM EDT
[#19]
I like my tws dog leg rail. I've never had any issues with it holding zero, but my wasr10 only gets 3-4" groups at best with cheap ammo.
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Posted: 6/29/2017 9:56:49 AM EDT
[#20]
The UltiMAK optics mount + RDS configuration is a winner in my books.
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Posted: 6/29/2017 5:55:33 PM EDT
[#21]
I know I'll take heat for this ...but I really dislike the Ultimak because of the heat transfer issue.
Look, I know 100 different Youtuber's said it's ok and tons of industry people too. But I trust my own experiences. Not people who well...may be biased by the fact that they are representing an industry and are sellers. I don't know how others shoot, but I know how I shoot and when I shoot - the AKgets hot. I mean hot. The trunion is blazing...the gastube is nuclear. The Ultimak if I'm correct is aluminum, which is even worse for heating up quick. If you look at the operating temperatures for sights like even the mighty Aimpoint which I own and use, you can easily exceed that on an Ultimak. Moreover....even if your sight survives, who said the Energizer watch battery in there will? Batteries don't do well when you cook them. I think it is just a bad solution for a rifle that might see some volume shooting. Better choices are: The RS regulate side mount. These are genuine, 100% return to zero goodness. You get cowitness, and they aren't bulky at least as far as side mounts go. The Midwest rail with optic specific top is the best solution. Cowitness, solid, waaayyy less heat transfer. Not being able to remove the gas tube on the Midwest is no disadvantage vs the Ultimak since you can't take the ultimak off either (at least without having to rezero). If you're a low volume shooter. Or you have a safe queen. Or you don't care. The Ultimak is the lightest, most streamlined solution. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 9:07:20 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know I'll take heat for this ...but I really dislike the Ultimak because of the heat transfer issue. Look, I know 100 different Youtuber's said it's ok and tons of industry people too. But I trust my own experiences. Not people who well...may be biased by the fact that they are representing an industry and are sellers. I don't know how others shoot, but I know how I shoot and when I shoot - the AKgets hot. I mean hot. The trunion is blazing...the gastube is nuclear. The Ultimak if I'm correct is aluminum, which is even worse for heating up quick. If you look at the operating temperatures for sights like even the mighty Aimpoint which I own and use, you can easily exceed that on an Ultimak. Moreover....even if your sight survives, who said the Energizer watch battery in there will? Batteries don't do well when you cook them. I think it is just a bad solution for a rifle that might see some volume shooting. Better choices are: The RS regulate side mount. These are genuine, 100% return to zero goodness. You get cowitness, and they aren't bulky at least as far as side mounts go. The Midwest rail with optic specific top is the best solution. Cowitness, solid, waaayyy less heat transfer. Not being able to remove the gas tube on the Midwest is no disadvantage vs the Ultimak since you can't take the ultimak off either (at least without having to rezero). If you're a low volume shooter. Or you have a safe queen. Or you don't care. The Ultimak is the lightest, most streamlined solution. https://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/product-p/mi-akrgt.htm |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 9:20:28 PM EDT
[#23]
..........willing to bet not a single person in here posting has tried the Attero bravo with a micro...........pretty much anyone who has ever had an ultimak, quad rail with optic top cover etc and made the switch will tell you hands down its the best platform for the AK period
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Posted: 6/30/2017 7:48:23 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
..........willing to bet not a single person in here posting has tried the Attero bravo with a micro...........pretty much anyone who has ever had an ultimak, quad rail with optic top cover etc and made the switch will tell you hands down its the best platform for the AK period |
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Posted: 6/30/2017 8:18:37 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
..........willing to bet not a single person in here posting has tried the Attero bravo with a micro...........pretty much anyone who has ever had an ultimak, quad rail with optic top cover etc and made the switch will tell you hands down its the best platform for the AK period 
It's a great system and I really like it. Best? If you are another one of those guys who thinks that the only thing that ever mattered and ever will is a simple red dot then yep, maybe...FOR YOU. But the AK world is a lot bigger than that and such an absolute statement is silly without even having to explain why. What do we do if we want a collimator or some kind of magnified combat optic like Kashtan or ACOG? |
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Posted: 7/1/2017 9:32:17 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What do we do if we want a collimator or some kind of magnified combat optic like Kashtan or ACOG? |
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Posted: 7/2/2017 12:01:55 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Guess you missed the part where i specifically said MICRO Simple |
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Posted: 7/2/2017 8:45:09 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And you follow up with 'best for AK platform ever'. That's a pretty broad, and pretty dumb statement. If you were only talking about the Attero being better than the Ultimak you should be more clear. Simple but yea yea yea........let me guess.........side mounts still right? side mounts are the way to go in 2017 for a micro? lmao whatever you like man. I recognize your handle from over at akfiles and I know you have a lot of experience with optics. Even over there, the guys have that actually tried the Attero mount after having an ultimak will mostly all agree they like the Attero better. As far as bolt on options, Attero FTW! |
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Posted: 7/3/2017 2:05:35 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
but yea yea yea........let me guess.........side mounts still right? side mounts are the way to go in 2017 for a micro? Back to the Attero, I also clearly said I think it's a great option - and use it myself. Not once here, there or anywhere have I ever said the Ultimak is the best solution (even for a red dot). In fact in this very thread the first thing I point out is that I never agreed it was the gold standard in the first place. I swear sometimes people just have to argue any little stupid detail to sound important on the Internet. |
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Posted: 7/3/2017 2:09:40 PM EDT
[#30]
reading fundamentals, but whatever....
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Posted: 7/3/2017 3:21:27 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Never said that in this thread, and don't say it anywhere. I often recommend optics like the T1 or H1 ... but go ahead and assume that the only thing I care about the side rail mount. It's obvious you are just a red dot guy and can't see past that, and carry your bias into this thread. I see a zillion guys like you on the forums all the time and see the same incessant echo chamber nonsense. Back to the Attero, I also clearly said I think it's a great option - and use it myself. Not once here, there or anywhere have I ever said the Ultimak is the best solution (even for a red dot). In fact in this very thread the first thing I point out is that I never agreed it was the gold standard in the first place. I swear sometimes people just have to argue any little stupid detail to sound important on the Internet. Guess what? That was not what this thread was about, so yes, you came in arguing to sound important on the internet as you put -Simple |
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Posted: 7/3/2017 3:45:30 PM EDT
[#32]
his point was.....
you made a ridiculously broad statement that in fact is not a truth, but an opinion but presented it as a truth. Therein lies the disagreement. Not about what mount is better, or which one is even being discussed. You could have said they sky is neon purple and anyone who doesn't think so is stupid and wrong, and we'd be having the same discussion. That being said, I still like the Ultimak, especially for it's cowitness abilities. If my thumbs get toasty, well go tier 1 and put on some gloves. BTW, I've run a cheap TRS-25 on mine for over 8k rounds and never had a heat transfer issue. Hopefully the Aimpoint is built better, but if they're failing on the Ultimaks, then perhaps not... |
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Posted: 7/3/2017 5:17:36 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
his point was..... you made a ridiculously broad statement that in fact is not a truth, but an opinion but presented it as a truth. The ONLY negative the Attero has in comparison to the Ultimak is that the Attero has built in irons that are equivalent to the battle zero setting on a leaf sight, so that is what you have to work with if your optic fails. However, battlze zero is more then sufficient for CQB hits, which is what most people running a red dot are looking for anyways, so that pretty much makes that negative a non factor. Ive never seen anyone running a micro dot, actually use the leaf sight adjustments for anything at all, that the Attero mount repalces |
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Posted: 7/3/2017 7:08:43 PM EDT
[#34]
Your points are valid, but the Attero just like the Ultimak is not the end all for all people.
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Posted: 7/3/2017 8:54:10 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
................my post was made in a thread inquiring if the ULTIMAK with a MICRO red dot was still the defacto setup..........everything i posted was relevant..........you came in saying what I said was silly, etc arguing like a little girl saying "what if we want to run this scope, that scope, etc" Guess what? That was not what this thread was about, so yes, you came in arguing to sound important on the internet as you put -Simple Again I'm not knocking the Attero. I'm knocking your silly argument that one size fits all and that only a red dot is the right solution, and only where YOU say it should be mounted. Betting that no one has used the Attero and therefore don't know what you are talking about is what led to this whole silliness in the first place |
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Posted: 7/3/2017 10:56:44 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
................my post was made in a thread inquiring if the ULTIMAK with a MICRO red dot was still the defacto setup..........everything i posted was relevant..........you came in saying what I said was silly, etc arguing like a little girl saying "what if we want to run this scope, that scope, etc" Guess what? That was not what this thread was about, so yes, you came in arguing to sound important on the internet as you put -Simple Remember this is a technical forum, brush up on the Conduct Code. Do not insult posters here. SPECIFIC TO THE TECH FORUMS The tech forums (Ar15,AK47,Handgun,Armory,Training,Outdoors) are more "formal" and actions permitted in the GD forum aren't permitted there. These forums are there to share information and as a result, trolling, heated arguments,insulting others,etc won't be ignored. Next time you may get more than a thread lock dryflash3 |
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Posted: 7/3/2017 10:57:09 PM EDT
[#37]
System Message
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