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Posted: 2/20/2017 6:37:56 PM EDT
[#1]
50 yards is 45.72 meters, so don't worry about the difference.
Remember that when adjusting the front sight you move it in the opposite direction from that in which you want the point of impact to move. For example, to lower POI raise the front sight. To move POI to the right, move the front sight to the left. Edit to add: I've found it useful to put some penetrating oil on the front sight drum and post a couple days before trying to make any adjustments. On some rifles they are very tight and difficult to move, even with the correct tool. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 7:35:43 PM EDT
[#2]
Front sight tool is a must, or alternately a windage adjustable rear and then you just need to raise or lower front post for elevation.
The 25/200 method for zeroing an AK I learned here is the best and quickest way to zero an AK, this is what I do every time now. |
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Posted: 2/22/2017 2:45:42 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
I picked up a RAS-47.... So sorry to hear that. My condolences. |
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Posted: 2/22/2017 4:41:09 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So sorry to hear that. My condolences. I know, I know ... . I ordered a front sight tool. There is a lot of good information in this forum and others regarding zeroing. I'll have to do some tailoring since all my available ranges measure in yards, not meters (my preferred rifle range does not allow centerfire rifles at the 25 yard tables -- 50 yards is the shortest distance I can use there). It would be nice if there were a drop in rear sight leaf graduated for yards. Cheers, Jack |
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Posted: 2/22/2017 5:43:18 PM EDT
[#5]
Plenty will suggest selling the rifle.
As for the sights,,,,,,,,,,,, 1.) get to a range and measure out 27 yards. 25 will work to the point most folks will ever shoot with irons.. The rifle isn't too prejudice. 2.) set the rear sight on "2" 3.) shoot as tight a group as possible. These rifles are known to have Green Mountain barrels and they are extremely accurate as a rule. 4.) move the sight TOWARD the impact you have. If you are shooting high raise the sight, if you are shooting left, move the sight to the left. Many have already said how to do this but it can be confusing. Aim center and follow to the hole. 5.) Move the sight to "1", and see how it is hitting at 100 yards if you sighted at 25 in the previous step, or 110 if you opted for 27. you should be on target, and now should have an operational elevation with the sights. 2 will be on at 200, 3 at 300 and so forth. I would suggest taking apart and cleaning this rifle after every range day. I suggest that for any rifle but many fall into the "I never clean mine and have never had a problem" mentality. If you see any strange wear or cracks, take it out of service. Invest in a "No-Go" gauge as well. Happy Trails |
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Posted: 2/22/2017 10:03:43 PM EDT
[#6]
Follow this and you will be zeroed in no time.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Plenty will suggest selling the rifle. As for the sights,,,,,,,,,,,, 1.) get to a range and measure out 27 yards. 25 will work to the point most folks will ever shoot with irons.. The rifle isn't too prejudice. 2.) set the rear sight on "2" 3.) shoot as tight a group as possible. These rifles are known to have Green Mountain barrels and they are extremely accurate as a rule. 4.) move the sight TOWARD the impact you have. If you are shooting high raise the sight, if you are shooting left, move the sight to the left. Many have already said how to do this but it can be confusing. Aim center and follow to the hole. 5.) Move the sight to "1", and see how it is hitting at 100 yards if you sighted at 25 in the previous step, or 110 if you opted for 27. you should be on target, and now should have an operational elevation with the sights. 2 will be on at 200, 3 at 300 and so forth. I would suggest taking apart and cleaning this rifle after every range day. I suggest that for any rifle but many fall into the "I never clean mine and have never had a problem" mentality. If you see any strange wear or cracks, take it out of service. Invest in a "No-Go" gauge as well. Happy Trails |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 11:19:18 PM EDT
[#7]
" 4.) move the sight TOWARD the impact you have. If you are shooting high raise the sight, if you are shooting left, move the sight to the left. Many have already said how to do this but it can be confusing. Aim center and follow to the hole. "
Good advice. The tool worked great. At the range today, this made it easy. I got it dead on at 50 yards, then moved to see where it hit at 100 yards. it shot high by about 6 inches at 100 yards, when zeroed at 50 yards. A six o'clock hold with a slight white line beneath a 6" Shoot-n-see target at 100 yards, put all the rounds on the shoot-n-see target. This was all with TulAmmo, 122 gr., from a 640 round tin. I'm pretty happy with the accuracy. I will add this advice, were it not obvious, or already given: when adjusting the front sight on an AK, set the elevation first; for, if you need to change the windage much, you could bury the front sight post in an inaccessible place within the front sight wings. Cheers, Jack |
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Posted: 3/1/2017 11:53:58 PM EDT
[#8]
I heard that mags are very loose in the magwell, true?
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Posted: 3/2/2017 3:52:44 AM EDT
[#9]
The sight setup on an AK is an abomination. The sight radius is on the short side and the tangent type sight is slow for target acquisition and poor for accuracy.
I put an AK100 Tech Sight on my 16" AK. This sight nearly doubles the sight radius and is a dual/flip aperture set up; one for 200 yds. and the other for over 200 yds. I sighted mine in at 200 with the "short" aperture and don't use the other unless I'm pharting around with my 300 yd. gong. I've been very pleased with this sight. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 1:16:03 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The sight setup on an AK is an abomination. The sight radius is on the short side and the tangent type sight is slow for target acquisition and poor for accuracy. I put an AK100 Tech Sight on my 16" AK. This sight nearly doubles the sight radius and is a dual/flip aperture set up; one for 200 yds. and the other for over 200 yds. I sighted mine in at 200 with the "short" aperture and don't use the other unless I'm pharting around with my 300 yd. gong. I've been very pleased with this sight. Sight radius is the same as an m4... |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 2:03:52 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sight radius is the same as an m4... Yes, but an M4 use an aperture sight, the likes of which are immeasurably superior to open or tangent sights. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 4:33:04 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, but an M4 use an aperture sight, the likes of which are immeasurably superior to open or tangent sights. I actually prefer AK style sights. I think "immeasurably superior" is kind of far-fetched in a discussion that ultimately boils down to subjective preference. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 5:35:33 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I actually prefer AK style sights. I think "immeasurably superior" is kind of far-fetched in a discussion that ultimately boils down to subjective preference. Preferences.aside, aperture sights on rifles are used in competitive settings, e.g.- High Power, for a reason. With an open or tangent sight one must focus or attempt to focus on both the front and rear sight so as to properly center the front sight in the rear notch and ensure the top of the front sight is level with the top of the rear sight.. With an aperture sight it's simply a matter of looking through the hole and placing the front sight on the target. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 5:43:49 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I actually prefer AK style sights. I think "immeasurably superior" is kind of far-fetched in a discussion that ultimately boils down to subjective preference. This......AK sights are just fine as they are..........learn to use them. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 6:33:04 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This......AK sights are just fine as they are..........learn to use them. You're confusing your opinion with fact. If you prefer open sights, more power to you. They're fine when speedy target acquisition and precision don't matter, i.e. at close range which is how 99% of AK's in this country are used. But to think they're even comparable to aperture sights shows a level of ignorance and/or a lack of experience. Ever wonder why the US armed forces haven't armed our soldiers with rifles using open sights in 80-some years? Attend a High Powed match sometime and tells us how many competit or you see using open sights. FWIW I've been shooting rifles for almost 50 years now and that is how I learned what works better. Maybe someday you'll catch on. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 8:03:49 PM EDT
[#16]
How many AK's do you typically see at high powered matches?
I prefer aperture sights also but for what the AK was designed, the orignal sights works fine. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 9:53:55 PM EDT
[#17]
Haven't AK style sights been proven to be a better "combat" style sight? IE quicker to acquire a moving target?
I greatly prefer an AR peep because my astigmatism makes it hard to focus on AK sights. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 10:04:37 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sight radius is the same as an m4... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The sight setup on an AK is an abomination. The sight radius is on the short side and the tangent type sight is slow for target acquisition and poor for accuracy. I put an AK100 Tech Sight on my 16" AK. This sight nearly doubles the sight radius and is a dual/flip aperture set up; one for 200 yds. and the other for over 200 yds. I sighted mine in at 200 with the "short" aperture and don't use the other unless I'm pharting around with my 300 yd. gong. I've been very pleased with this sight. Sight radius is the same as an m4... True, but the rear sight is much closer to the eye on the M4 allowing for much better precision. The Galil got that right too. I know its cliche' but I fully understand "The AK is a sub-gun that can also be shot as a rifle, and the AR is a rifle that can also be shot as a subgun" with regards to the sights. I think the designers had different primary roles in mind, but overlapping secondary roles. |
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Posted: 3/4/2017 1:25:42 PM EDT
[#19]
I'm learning a lot in this forum. When I had intermittently shopped for AK's, I never thought much of the sights. Then I found a few articles and youtube videos regarding the proper way to zero and to use the sights. Influenced by a post here, I acquired the front sight tool, and proceeded to accomplish the simplest, fastest zero I've ever done with any rifle. That front sight adjustment was incredibly easy. I like the sights more and more. I now have 400 rounds through it, and can keep all rounds (except for a flyer here and there) on the 6" Shoot-n-See targets at 50 and 100. I haven't pushed it beyond that yet, but will next trip to the range. That's all with 122gr TulAmmo fmj. I usually hate anything I can't do well, or anything I think is just not working. The AK sights worked well fast enough for me to forget all about not liking them. I actually like them now. I understand them, and and impressed. I HATED the sights on my M48 Mauser ... until I shot it enough to get comfortable with the especially shallow sight picture. Now, that thing shoot's great, and I'm good with it. Lesson learned.
Cheers, Jack |
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Posted: 3/4/2017 2:28:54 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Preferences.aside, aperture sights on rifles are used in competitive settings, e.g.- High Power, for a reason. With an open or tangent sight one must focus or attempt to focus on both the front and rear sight so as to properly center the front sight in the rear notch and ensure the top of the front sight is level with the top of the rear sight.. With an aperture sight it's simply a matter of looking through the hole and placing the front sight on the target. And how many high-power match rifles do you see in front line combat? They're made for entirely different purposes. It's a logical fallacy to call one definitively better than the other. They both have their place and purpose. |
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Posted: 3/4/2017 6:08:45 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And how many high-power match rifles do you see in front line combat? They're made for entirely different purposes. It's a logical fallacy to call one definitively better than the other. They both have their place and purpose. Do you not know what a High Power Service Rifle is???? |
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Posted: 3/4/2017 7:07:19 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you not know what a High Power Service Rifle is???? How many M4s are used during these competitions? You're comparing entirely different pieces of equipment built for entirely different purposes to serve under entirely different doctrines and engineered with entirely different historical data with entirely different manufacturing goals. I own plenty of both and know that they're incomparable. You can't definitively say one is better than the other in all cases. |
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Posted: 3/5/2017 12:46:38 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How many M4s are used during these competitions? WTF does that have to do with the superiority of aperture sights?? You're comparing entirely different pieces of equipment built for entirely different purposes to serve under entirely different doctrines and engineered with entirely different historical data with entirely different manufacturing goals. You're rambling. What are equipment you talking about?? AK vs. AR? Tangent vs. aperture? I own plenty of both and know that they're incomparable. You can't definitively say one is better than the other in all cases. The ONLY instance in which a tangent sight has a slight and almost meaningless advantage over an aperture sight, is in its ability to make coarse, on-the-fly elevation changes without obscuring the target, aka, Kentucky elevation. My point of the High Power Service Rifle, which evidently you didn't understand, is that it is a rifle that, except for higher quality barrels and triggers, duplicates the rifle used by our armed forces in front line combat until recently. There's your answer for how many High Power match rifles have seen front line combat. Do you have any idea why aperture sights were adapted to hunting rifles over 140 years ago and to our military rifles 100 years ago?? I'd suggest you get out and do some shooting, you'll figure it out. |
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Posted: 3/5/2017 1:05:34 AM EDT
[#24]
You fellows got off topic.
Please return to RAS-47. |
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Posted: 3/5/2017 10:52:48 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How many AK's do you typically see at high powered matches?
I prefer aperture sights also but for what the AK was designed, the orignal sights works fine. The round entered the front of his CCO/Aimpoint and went out the side, it saved his life. He also got hit in both legs, he lived but 2 others didn't. Never underestimate a skilled marksman with a rusty trash can gun. The AR is a better gun, but don't underestimate the AK. |
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Posted: 3/5/2017 10:54:02 PM EDT
[#26]
I saw one the other day, honestly I thought it looked pretty good, for under $600 zero and enjoy it.
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Posted: 3/6/2017 1:54:39 AM EDT
[#27]
Another range day. I did inspect the bolt carrier and found the "x" mark that is reputed to indicate an improvement in heat treatment of the parts that have given rise to the infamy of the RAS-47. I found today that the only way to improve my groups would be to visit the eye doctor ... I'm at least a prescription behind. Otherwise, I'm dead on at 50 yards with the rear sight in the rearmost position, and am dead on at 100 with the rear sight set on the 200 position. Dead on means all rounds on a 6" Shoot n see target. Again, the trigger is pretty amazing. I noticed today that I wish the rear stock were a bit longer, and dipped down a bit more. But, all in all, I've found the AK platform to be quite intriguing.
Cheers, Jak |
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Posted: 3/6/2017 9:08:40 AM EDT
[#28]
Run it until it breaks or won't headspace. Consider it a consumable item that you can learn from and, in the meantime, save your money for a good AK if you still have a passion for Soviet rifles.
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Posted: 3/6/2017 9:36:36 AM EDT
[#29]
I saw Rob Ski's test of the RAS. His tests are interesting and obviously well thought out. But for the way it was tortured I thought the RAS fared pretty well. I think as long as one practices a modicum of care and maintenance with their rifle, and doesn't run over it, drop it on concrete, throw it 8n the creek or shoot it without occasional lubrication, it will likely outlast them.
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Posted: 3/7/2017 1:45:50 PM EDT
[#30]
For what it's worth, my RAS-47 has a serial number RAS47068XXX. I sure like shooting it, and have got the AK bug bad. I'm already thinking of getting something else. Rob Ski has a post up on AKOU about another failure, but has not published the serial number range as of this writing (if it matters).
Cheers, Jack |
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Posted: 3/7/2017 3:18:32 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Run it until it breaks or won't headspace. Consider it a consumable item that you can learn from and, in the meantime, save your money for a good AK if you still have a passion for Soviet rifles. Seconding this post. Lessons are worth whatever you pay for them as long as you learn it. |
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Posted: 3/12/2017 11:47:11 PM EDT
[#32]
Well, for all the diehard fans, the round count is now at 600. I'm very intrigued by the AK platform. I'm waiting for the market to loosen up ay; bit to acquire a more respectable rifle. That being said, I'm very satisfied with this rifle so far. Today, at 50 and 100 yards, I could keep all rounds on the 7"X3" Shoot-n-C Oval targets. That ain't bad with iron sights and TulAmmo. And, I recognize that I'm at least a prescription behind on my glasses and contacts. For those that have been so kind to advise me to do so, I have on order the go/no-go/field gauges that should serve me well. Tonight, upon cleaning and inspecting the internals, I didn't see much of anything that was different from the first range outing. I know that doesn't tell the whole story, but that's all I can report at this time.
BTW, I deliberately used the oval Shoot-n-C targets today for this reason: when I've tried my best to shoot at circular targets, I've found I've had a bias towards the left side of the bull's eye. Even adjusting the front sight, did not correct everything. I thought maybe the front sight was walking on me. Using a mixture of horizontal and vertical ovals, helped me tighten up my shooting. It was me, not the rifle. Cheers, Jack |
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Posted: 3/14/2017 11:48:04 PM EDT
[#33]
A propos of absolutely nothing, I noticed that there are 3 dots, in a triangle oriented west, indented on the rear sight leaf of this RAS-47. Any idea what that means?
Cheers, Jack |
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Posted: 3/19/2017 10:31:18 PM EDT
[#34]
My Factory Second RAS-47 is up to 1400 rounds. I have a no-go and field gauge, and so far it will not close on either. Nor is it showing cracks. It does have quite a bit of bolt wear/polishing. I clean and check it after every range session.
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Posted: 3/21/2017 11:51:35 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My Factory Second RAS-47 is up to 1400 rounds. I have a no-go and field gauge, and so far it will not close on either. Nor is it showing cracks. It does have quite a bit of bolt wear/polishing. I clean and check it after every range session. |
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Posted: 3/23/2017 9:04:02 PM EDT
[#36]
In the end, I do expect it to fail.
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Posted: 3/24/2017 12:35:46 AM EDT
[#37]
I, too, will keep you all updated on the state of things regarding the RAS47. I'm heading to the range Sunday to put another 200 rounds through it. The only difference will be that it will be accompanied by a newly acquired WASR 10.
It's weird. I do see a good deal of shiny spots and weird peening on the bolt and carrier, but not the trunnion. The RAS is quite accurate. The trigger is awesome. None of these observations is argument in favor of the cast part decisions that resulted in the RAS -- it's just the state of things right now. Having just received a WASR, I noticed that the RAS is heavier. According to various vendors, I confirmed that the RAS weighs 7.55 lbs; the WASR, 6.9 lbs. I noticed upon my first inspection that the WASR was noticeably lighter than the RAS (thinner barrel, lighter dust cover accounts for most, obviously). 200 rounds will accompany the WASR. It should be a day of great data gathering. For anyone who's still paying attention, my RAS has the pin retaining plate, not the shepherd's hook (or paper clip). The WASR has the paper clip. Cheers, Jack |
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