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Posted: 2/28/2016 2:38:07 PM EDT
[#1]
Let's face it all of the "YouTube operators" do a lot of stupid shit with guns that 99.9% of us would never do stuff we buy with our hard earned dollars. Most people on YouTube are there to get a massive ego stroked as well as the troll experts in these forums. Magpul I like your stuff and it works for me!
John |
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Posted: 2/28/2016 7:33:46 PM EDT
[#2]
I loved my Zhukov for what it was until today. While shooting I had to kick start my rifle. Damn stock collapsed. I only had to smack the stock for it to fold now. Anyone know who makes a good polymer ask stock? Or should I just get a at buffer attachment?
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Posted: 2/28/2016 8:32:42 PM EDT
[#3]
I have no axe to grind with Magpul. I use many of their AR accessories. I'm sure there is a logical explanation for this stock failure but like many others, as much as I like the visual and ergonomic design of the Zhukov stock, it has always been a no go for me because of the plastic hinge. Even before the recent vid. I don't use plastic hinged folders on a .22, (nothing wrong with that but I don't ) why would I want one on my AK?
It's their business how they manufacture parts but for a company that is known for offering quality parts to upgrade and improve firearms, the decision to make the heart of this key component out of plastic is kind of baffling to many. Even if it doubled the cost (shouldn't come close to that) I think there would be a huge market for a properly made metal hinged version of this stock. For those desiring a more durable upgrade to their current AK stock, unfortunately this isn't it in my opinion. It's a shame that such an awesome looking stock has this one shortcoming, whether it was the cause of this isolated failure or not. Hopefully a better constructed version will be available at some point. Maybe make the current version the MOE model for those that don't care about the increased durability of a metal hinged model. Maybe that's been the plan all along. That said I do greatly appreciate all the other outstanding products Magpul has provided us with over the years and also appreciate their participation on the forums. |
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Posted: 2/28/2016 9:06:41 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's next? "I stuck my Slr107fr in a furnace and the hinge fir the stock melted" It seems as if there is always intent to break thee parts and then when they do they are deemed junk. Just like the mags in the petronov video. An SLR107FR Stock would no doubt hold up better. |
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Posted: 2/28/2016 9:16:27 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Youre right. I forgot Im talking to a bunch of guys that shower with their guns, then run them outside and bury them in the snow in case the SHTF while theyre shoveling their driveway. Thank god MAC recreated that likely scenario. So now you know the Zhukov stock will get you killed because it cant handle being frozen and hit against the ground. Like it even matters if the stock broke since the gun wouldnt fire anyway. Im surprised people arent in here shitting on the AK now. It looked like the AK failed as much as the stock did. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Cold breaks shit, period. Yes it does. Some things break more easily than others, plan accordingly. That little love tap to the ground that Mac gave that stock hardly constitutes torture. Youre right. I forgot Im talking to a bunch of guys that shower with their guns, then run them outside and bury them in the snow in case the SHTF while theyre shoveling their driveway. Thank god MAC recreated that likely scenario. So now you know the Zhukov stock will get you killed because it cant handle being frozen and hit against the ground. Like it even matters if the stock broke since the gun wouldnt fire anyway. Im surprised people arent in here shitting on the AK now. It looked like the AK failed as much as the stock did. Nobody has any sort of positive expectations for a RAS 47. Krebs optic mount falling off like that too... what a joke that gun is |
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Posted: 2/28/2016 9:28:15 PM EDT
[#6]
The stock failure comes as no surprise to me, I examined a Zhukov stock at a gun show and upon seeing the, in my opinion, engineering fail that is the hinge I set it down and forgot about it. Even companies that make great products will produce some losers occasionally. Caveat emptor. |
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Posted: 2/28/2016 9:32:03 PM EDT
[#7]
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I think you have just kinda of proven then point. 100 in 18 months....that is 5.5 new products every 30 days. I do R&D for living for a company that provides engineered automotive products. Average program takes +2 years from concept CAD to fully to singed PPAP. Let's just say with ~50 full time engineers on staff plus support staff we don't average anymore close to 5 new products per month....not even one per month.... I don't think you understand how the R&D process works. You're assuming each product took the time between releases to be developed and tested. That's a silly assumption. You have no idea how long each product took to bring to market. /not a magpul fanboi |
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Posted: 2/28/2016 9:45:08 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I loved my Zhukov for what it was until today. While shooting I had to kick start my rifle. Damn stock collapsed. I only had to smack the stock for it to fold now. Anyone know who makes a good polymer ask stock? Or should I just get a at buffer attachment? My favorite way to put a magpul stock on an AK is via a vltor aluminum tube. |
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Posted: 2/28/2016 10:00:37 PM EDT
[#9]
Thanks Magpul for keeping us up to date
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Posted: 2/29/2016 3:44:27 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Face it guys, Magpul is the new Tapco, except they actually have a history of putting a good products out there originally. Now, in order to keep their business growth models going they crank out anything for everything. It's inevitable that Magpul turned into dress up shop for tacticool ninjas. No, it's just cool to hate Magpul now, because they're sort of an "establishment" company in the gun industry. They're no longer the small time, underdogs that people want to root for. |
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Posted: 2/29/2016 7:14:29 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, it's just cool to hate Magpul now, because they're sort of an "establishment" company in the gun industry. They're no longer the small time, underdogs that people want to root for. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Face it guys, Magpul is the new Tapco, except they actually have a history of putting a good products out there originally. Now, in order to keep their business growth models going they crank out anything for everything. It's inevitable that Magpul turned into dress up shop for tacticool ninjas. No, it's just cool to hate Magpul now, because they're sort of an "establishment" company in the gun industry. They're no longer the small time, underdogs that people want to root for. I agree completely. They've got one hell of a track record by and large and typically lead rather than follow in design and innovation. Everyone puts out a lemon and the more product one produces the greater the odds, despite QC efforts. I can think of very few examples of crap that Magpul's produced and a long list of great products. |
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Posted: 2/29/2016 9:03:45 PM EDT
[#12]
Seen the vid and don't really care. Doesn't get cold here. It's not the strongest stock on the market? Ok, 'noted'. I never really thought it was in the first place...
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Posted: 3/2/2016 10:51:59 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think you understand how the R&D process works. You're assuming each product took the time between releases to be developed and tested. That's a silly assumption. You have no idea how long each product took to bring to market. /not a magpul fanboi Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think you have just kinda of proven then point. 100 in 18 months....that is 5.5 new products every 30 days. I do R&D for living for a company that provides engineered automotive products. Average program takes +2 years from concept CAD to fully to singed PPAP. Let's just say with ~50 full time engineers on staff plus support staff we don't average anymore close to 5 new products per month....not even one per month.... I don't think you understand how the R&D process works. You're assuming each product took the time between releases to be developed and tested. That's a silly assumption. You have no idea how long each product took to bring to market. /not a magpul fanboi Are you saying Magpul just releases products without going through DV and PV? I sure hope not! |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 10:56:20 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you saying Magpul just releases products without going through DV and PV? I sure hope not! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I think you have just kinda of proven then point. 100 in 18 months....that is 5.5 new products every 30 days. I do R&D for living for a company that provides engineered automotive products. Average program takes +2 years from concept CAD to fully to singed PPAP. Let's just say with ~50 full time engineers on staff plus support staff we don't average anymore close to 5 new products per month....not even one per month.... I don't think you understand how the R&D process works. You're assuming each product took the time between releases to be developed and tested. That's a silly assumption. You have no idea how long each product took to bring to market. /not a magpul fanboi Are you saying Magpul just releases products without going through DV and PV? I sure hope not! Of course not. 
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Posted: 3/2/2016 10:58:35 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, it's just cool to hate Magpul now, because they're sort of an "establishment" company in the gun industry. They're no longer the small time, underdogs that people want to root for. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Face it guys, Magpul is the new Tapco, except they actually have a history of putting a good products out there originally. Now, in order to keep their business growth models going they crank out anything for everything. It's inevitable that Magpul turned into dress up shop for tacticool ninjas. No, it's just cool to hate Magpul now, because they're sort of an "establishment" company in the gun industry. They're no longer the small time, underdogs that people want to root for. No it has more to do with being a victim of their own success. Happens to companies all the time, not just Magpul and not just in the firearm accessory biz. They loose sight of their "self" and what they do reall well, overexpand into areas that are outside of their core expertise banking on their name and then quality and design suffers. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 10:59:50 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Of course not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I think you have just kinda of proven then point. 100 in 18 months....that is 5.5 new products every 30 days. I do R&D for living for a company that provides engineered automotive products. Average program takes +2 years from concept CAD to fully to singed PPAP. Let's just say with ~50 full time engineers on staff plus support staff we don't average anymore close to 5 new products per month....not even one per month.... I don't think you understand how the R&D process works. You're assuming each product took the time between releases to be developed and tested. That's a silly assumption. You have no idea how long each product took to bring to market. /not a magpul fanboi Are you saying Magpul just releases products without going through DV and PV? I sure hope not! Of course not. Not sure what point is he making then. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 11:06:02 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not sure what point is he making then. Bringing, as an example, 4 products to market at the same time has nothing to do with the R&D time frame. Those products could each have 2+ years effort prior to coming to market. Some of them may only have 5 months. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 11:18:33 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bringing, as an example, 4 products to market at the same time has nothing to do with the R&D time frame. Those products could each have 2+ years effort prior to coming to market. Some of them may only have 5 months. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not sure what point is he making then. Bringing, as an example, 4 products to market at the same time has nothing to do with the R&D time frame. Those products could each have 2+ years effort prior to coming to market. Some of them may only have 5 months. Sure, ok I see what you are trying to say. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 11:20:10 AM EDT
[#19]
Double tap
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Posted: 3/2/2016 11:21:26 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How many engineers, technicians, environmental chambers, vibe tables, salt spray chambers do you thin Magpul has on staff support validation of 28 programs all being developed at the same time? ( that 100 product in 18 months with 5 month concept to production span) I don't know, and you don't either. Purely speculation on your part. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 11:29:13 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know, and you don't either. Purely speculation on your part. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How many engineers, technicians, environmental chambers, vibe tables, salt spray chambers do you thin Magpul has on staff support validation of 28 programs all being developed at the same time? ( that 100 product in 18 months with 5 month concept to production span) I don't know, and you don't either. Purely speculation on your part. Oh I have quite a good idea what it would take to support so many engineered products. I do it for living. And I know what staff and capital an S&P 500 company with 7.5 billion revenue keeps on hand to produce fraction of the products that Magpul does on annual basis. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 2:46:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh I have quite a good idea what it would take to support so many engineered products. I do it for living. And I know what staff and capital an S&P 500 company with 7.5 billion revenue keeps on hand to produce fraction of the products that Magpul does on annual basis. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How many engineers, technicians, environmental chambers, vibe tables, salt spray chambers do you thin Magpul has on staff support validation of 28 programs all being developed at the same time? ( that 100 product in 18 months with 5 month concept to production span) I don't know, and you don't either. Purely speculation on your part. Oh I have quite a good idea what it would take to support so many engineered products. I do it for living. And I know what staff and capital an S&P 500 company with 7.5 billion revenue keeps on hand to produce fraction of the products that Magpul does on annual basis. Fill us in, how many would it take? |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 3:17:49 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fill us in, how many would it take? One more than they had for the Zhukov stock? 
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Posted: 3/2/2016 4:57:19 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh I have quite a good idea what it would take to support so many engineered products. I do it for living. And I know what staff and capital an S&P 500 company with 7.5 billion revenue keeps on hand to produce fraction of the products that Magpul does on annual basis. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How many engineers, technicians, environmental chambers, vibe tables, salt spray chambers do you thin Magpul has on staff support validation of 28 programs all being developed at the same time? ( that 100 product in 18 months with 5 month concept to production span) I don't know, and you don't either. Purely speculation on your part. Oh I have quite a good idea what it would take to support so many engineered products. I do it for living. And I know what staff and capital an S&P 500 company with 7.5 billion revenue keeps on hand to produce fraction of the products that Magpul does on annual basis. Different products, market and requirements so it's apples to oranges. With the reference to environmental chambers, vibe tables, etc. I would guess automotive application and parts that go on OEM vehicles have a lot more stringent approval process than aftermarket firearm parts. The company I work for had gross sales of 150 billion last year. That and my job & operation knowledge in manufacturing translate to jack shit about how Magpul does things internal. Magpul is a good company making unique products and I am glad they exist. If they were making products for automotive, medical, aerospace, high liability field you would be correct in the much longer product release time and support IMHO. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 5:46:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Midway has them on sale for $84.99 .... ill try one at that price
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Posted: 3/2/2016 7:20:26 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Midway has them on sale for $84.99 .... ill try one at that price Plus shipping probably close to 95 bucks, PLENTY of new takeoffs for sale for much less, lotsa guys dumping them cheap, 80 shipped or less...saw one guy sell one for 60 bucks. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 8:20:05 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No it has more to do with being a victim of their own success. Happens to companies all the time, not just Magpul and not just in the firearm accessory biz. They loose sight of their "self" and what they do reall well, overexpand into areas that are outside of their core expertise banking on their name and then quality and design suffers. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Face it guys, Magpul is the new Tapco, except they actually have a history of putting a good products out there originally. Now, in order to keep their business growth models going they crank out anything for everything. It's inevitable that Magpul turned into dress up shop for tacticool ninjas. No, it's just cool to hate Magpul now, because they're sort of an "establishment" company in the gun industry. They're no longer the small time, underdogs that people want to root for. No it has more to do with being a victim of their own success. Happens to companies all the time, not just Magpul and not just in the firearm accessory biz. They loose sight of their "self" and what they do reall well, overexpand into areas that are outside of their core expertise banking on their name and then quality and design suffers. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 8:41:50 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Different products, market and requirements so it's apples to oranges. With the reference to environmental chambers, vibe tables, etc. I would guess automotive application and parts that go on OEM vehicles have a lot more stringent approval process than aftermarket firearm parts. The company I work for had gross sales of 150 billion last year. That and my job & operation knowledge in manufacturing translate to jack shit about how Magpul does things internal. Magpul is a good company making unique products and I am glad they exist. If they were making products for automotive, medical, aerospace, high liability field you would be correct in the much longer product release time and support IMHO. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How many engineers, technicians, environmental chambers, vibe tables, salt spray chambers do you thin Magpul has on staff support validation of 28 programs all being developed at the same time? ( that 100 product in 18 months with 5 month concept to production span) I don't know, and you don't either. Purely speculation on your part. Oh I have quite a good idea what it would take to support so many engineered products. I do it for living. And I know what staff and capital an S&P 500 company with 7.5 billion revenue keeps on hand to produce fraction of the products that Magpul does on annual basis. Different products, market and requirements so it's apples to oranges. With the reference to environmental chambers, vibe tables, etc. I would guess automotive application and parts that go on OEM vehicles have a lot more stringent approval process than aftermarket firearm parts. The company I work for had gross sales of 150 billion last year. That and my job & operation knowledge in manufacturing translate to jack shit about how Magpul does things internal. Magpul is a good company making unique products and I am glad they exist. If they were making products for automotive, medical, aerospace, high liability field you would be correct in the much longer product release time and support IMHO. defense "automotive" industry actually 
and yes civilian non-OEM aftermarket is definitely lot less stringent.... |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 9:04:51 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
defense "automotive" industry actually
and yes civilian non-OEM aftermarket is definitely lot less stringent.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How many engineers, technicians, environmental chambers, vibe tables, salt spray chambers do you thin Magpul has on staff support validation of 28 programs all being developed at the same time? ( that 100 product in 18 months with 5 month concept to production span) I don't know, and you don't either. Purely speculation on your part. Oh I have quite a good idea what it would take to support so many engineered products. I do it for living. And I know what staff and capital an S&P 500 company with 7.5 billion revenue keeps on hand to produce fraction of the products that Magpul does on annual basis. Different products, market and requirements so it's apples to oranges. With the reference to environmental chambers, vibe tables, etc. I would guess automotive application and parts that go on OEM vehicles have a lot more stringent approval process than aftermarket firearm parts. The company I work for had gross sales of 150 billion last year. That and my job & operation knowledge in manufacturing translate to jack shit about how Magpul does things internal. Magpul is a good company making unique products and I am glad they exist. If they were making products for automotive, medical, aerospace, high liability field you would be correct in the much longer product release time and support IMHO. defense "automotive" industry actually
and yes civilian non-OEM aftermarket is definitely lot less stringent.... Good gig! 
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Posted: 3/2/2016 9:43:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You still haven't said what products of theirs you find lacking in quality. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Face it guys, Magpul is the new Tapco, except they actually have a history of putting a good products out there originally. Now, in order to keep their business growth models going they crank out anything for everything. It's inevitable that Magpul turned into dress up shop for tacticool ninjas. No, it's just cool to hate Magpul now, because they're sort of an "establishment" company in the gun industry. They're no longer the small time, underdogs that people want to root for. No it has more to do with being a victim of their own success. Happens to companies all the time, not just Magpul and not just in the firearm accessory biz. They loose sight of their "self" and what they do reall well, overexpand into areas that are outside of their core expertise banking on their name and then quality and design suffers. |
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Posted: 3/2/2016 11:45:35 PM EDT
[#31]
I'm still reading this thread, stay classy. Just a reminder to everyone, not directed at anyone.
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Posted: 3/3/2016 12:01:12 AM EDT
[#32]
All this over one cracked stock. Funny how it only took one video to get the internet in an uproar.
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Posted: 3/3/2016 9:21:44 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All this over one cracked stock. Funny how it only took one video to get the internet in an uproar. |
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Posted: 3/3/2016 11:16:00 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Plus shipping probably close to 95 bucks, PLENTY of new takeoffs for sale for much less, lotsa guys dumping them cheap, 80 shipped or less...saw one guy sell one for 60 bucks. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Midway has them on sale for $84.99 .... ill try one at that price Plus shipping probably close to 95 bucks, PLENTY of new takeoffs for sale for much less, lotsa guys dumping them cheap, 80 shipped or less...saw one guy sell one for 60 bucks. 2 weeks ago Primary Arms had them for 75 bucks !!! That's a price I just could not pass up and I am very happy with my new stock !!!! 
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Posted: 3/3/2016 11:59:36 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All this over one cracked stock. Funny how it only took one video to get the internet in an uproar. One video, and the stocks have been available for how long without anyone having major issues? This is utterly ridiculous. I've been hard on Magpul about the sand-color dye-it-yourself BS and the awful mag stop on the Gen M3 mags, but this reaction is totally overblown. It's an affordable folding stock with decent ergonomics that doesn't block the AK's poorly positioned optics mount that doesn't require permanent or expensive modifications to the host weapon's receiver. The wire folders fill a similar role but are harder to find, more expensive, and have terrible ergonomics with no adjustments. The Bonesteel folder seems to a good choice but it appears that availability can be bad, they are expensive, and offer no adjustability. The triangle and century-series folders are a better stock, but then on top of a $100 stock, you need a hard to find $150+ trunnion, $50 latch parts, and between $150-$300 worth of work to modify the receiver. Then when you're done, you have a folding stock that blocks the optic mount. It's not a direct comparison. I'm sure Magpul could design an uber-Zhukov stock that mixed a super strong metal hinge and latch mechanism with polymer body but it would end up a $250+ product that they'd sell two or three of. The Zhukov is fine for its intended purpose and price point. I'm just glad I live in Texas where if the SHTF in the middle of winter, everyone would just stay home a few days until the ice melted. 
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Posted: 3/3/2016 12:28:22 PM EDT
[#36]
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I'm still reading this thread, stay classy. Just a reminder to everyone, not directed at anyone. I'm watching it too. |
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Posted: 3/3/2016 12:44:58 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One video, and the stocks have been available for how long without anyone having major issues? This is utterly ridiculous. I've been hard on Magpul about the sand-color dye-it-yourself BS and the awful mag stop on the Gen M3 mags, but this reaction is totally overblown. It's an affordable folding stock with decent ergonomics that doesn't block the AK's poorly positioned optics mount that doesn't require permanent or expensive modifications to the host weapon's receiver. The wire folders fill a similar role but are harder to find, more expensive, and have terrible ergonomics with no adjustments. The Bonesteel folder seems to a good choice but it appears that availability can be bad, they are expensive, and offer no adjustability. The triangle and century-series folders are a better stock, but then on top of a $100 stock, you need a hard to find $150+ trunnion, $50 latch parts, and between $150-$300 worth of work to modify the receiver. Then when you're done, you have a folding stock that blocks the optic mount. It's not a direct comparison. I'm sure Magpul could design an uber-Zhukov stock that mixed a super strong metal hinge and latch mechanism with polymer body but it would end up a $250+ product that they'd sell two or three of. The Zhukov is fine for its intended purpose and price point. K I'm just glad I live in Texas where if the SHTF in the middle of winter, everyone would just stay home a few hours until the ice melted. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
All this over one cracked stock. Funny how it only took one video to get the internet in an uproar. One video, and the stocks have been available for how long without anyone having major issues? This is utterly ridiculous. I've been hard on Magpul about the sand-color dye-it-yourself BS and the awful mag stop on the Gen M3 mags, but this reaction is totally overblown. It's an affordable folding stock with decent ergonomics that doesn't block the AK's poorly positioned optics mount that doesn't require permanent or expensive modifications to the host weapon's receiver. The wire folders fill a similar role but are harder to find, more expensive, and have terrible ergonomics with no adjustments. The Bonesteel folder seems to a good choice but it appears that availability can be bad, they are expensive, and offer no adjustability. The triangle and century-series folders are a better stock, but then on top of a $100 stock, you need a hard to find $150+ trunnion, $50 latch parts, and between $150-$300 worth of work to modify the receiver. Then when you're done, you have a folding stock that blocks the optic mount. It's not a direct comparison. I'm sure Magpul could design an uber-Zhukov stock that mixed a super strong metal hinge and latch mechanism with polymer body but it would end up a $250+ product that they'd sell two or three of. The Zhukov is fine for its intended purpose and price point. K I'm just glad I live in Texas where if the SHTF in the middle of winter, everyone would just stay home a few hours until the ice melted. Fixed that for you
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Posted: 3/3/2016 12:55:27 PM EDT
[#38]
Just a note about the Bonesteel folder, I have one on my AES-10B. It's a tight fit and broke one rubber mallet but it's built like a tank and very solid. I added a Magpul LCS stock. Ignore the color, I like to spice things up.
Also note, you don't have to cut the Tang like some ACE side folders. 
And just for fun, the whole family
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Posted: 3/3/2016 1:08:40 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fixed that for you
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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All this over one cracked stock. Funny how it only took one video to get the internet in an uproar. One video, and the stocks have been available for how long without anyone having major issues? This is utterly ridiculous. I've been hard on Magpul about the sand-color dye-it-yourself BS and the awful mag stop on the Gen M3 mags, but this reaction is totally overblown. It's an affordable folding stock with decent ergonomics that doesn't block the AK's poorly positioned optics mount that doesn't require permanent or expensive modifications to the host weapon's receiver. The wire folders fill a similar role but are harder to find, more expensive, and have terrible ergonomics with no adjustments. The Bonesteel folder seems to a good choice but it appears that availability can be bad, they are expensive, and offer no adjustability. The triangle and century-series folders are a better stock, but then on top of a $100 stock, you need a hard to find $150+ trunnion, $50 latch parts, and between $150-$300 worth of work to modify the receiver. Then when you're done, you have a folding stock that blocks the optic mount. It's not a direct comparison. I'm sure Magpul could design an uber-Zhukov stock that mixed a super strong metal hinge and latch mechanism with polymer body but it would end up a $250+ product that they'd sell two or three of. The Zhukov is fine for its intended purpose and price point. K I'm just glad I live in Texas where if the SHTF in the middle of winter, everyone would just stay home a few hours until the ice melted. Fixed that for you
And anyone who didn't stay home would be more worried about why their bones are sticking out through their skin instead of their broken frozen stocks.
Another thing to consider is the failure mode. You fall and somehow land on the stock at an angle - it breaks clean at the hinge point. You chuck it and replace it with another $100 stock. And have some tylenol because ouch. What does that same hit do to a wire folder? To a left-side folder? At some point it'll go from breaking the stock to breaking you or damaging the receiver due to the torque on the mounting point. Which instead of logistics issue with replacing an inexpensive/consumable item, you've got a serious injury or a deadlined-gun with a warped receiver. As a disclaimer, I have five of the 4.5mm left side folders and two wire folders in my AK stable. I'm going to give a Zhukov stock a shot because I'm curious how the ergos work but I don't have any at this time so I'm not hugely invested in them. I'm just arguing that for what it is and what it is intended to do, it isn't some huge piece of junk because it broke in that contrived test. (And I also like the MAC, but some of these "torture" tests lately...) |
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Posted: 3/3/2016 6:18:15 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Bonesteel folder seems to a good choice but it appears that availability can be bad, they are expensive, and offer no adjustability. Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Bonesteel folder seems to a good choice but it appears that availability can be bad, they are expensive, and offer no adjustability. For one thing, the "Bonesteel" folder has a lot more to do with CNCW than it does Chris Bonesteel, don't know why everyone continues to call it such. Secondly, the CNCW folder is a serious hardcore piece of hardware, flimsy plastic stocks shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence, they are not even remotely comparable. Quoted:
Gun folk are way too sensitive about shit like this. I swear, a large part of the community act like teenage girls. You mean like that time they all squeee'd about zomfg magpul making AK furniture and started buying it before they even owned an AK much less before it was tested properly? Or that time they giggled as they were hacking off parts of their rifle to accommodate a cheap plastic part before said part was even available? And all that's okay but complaining when the shit breaks (as predicted) is them acting like teenage girls? |
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Posted: 3/3/2016 6:42:39 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One video, and the stocks have been available for how long without anyone having major issues? This is utterly ridiculous. I've been hard on Magpul about the sand-color dye-it-yourself BS and the awful mag stop on the Gen M3 mags, but this reaction is totally overblown. It's an affordable folding stock with decent ergonomics that doesn't block the AK's poorly positioned optics mount that doesn't require permanent or expensive modifications to the host weapon's receiver. The wire folders fill a similar role but are harder to find, more expensive, and have terrible ergonomics with no adjustments. The Bonesteel folder seems to a good choice but it appears that availability can be bad, they are expensive, and offer no adjustability. The triangle and century-series folders are a better stock, but then on top of a $100 stock, you need a hard to find $150+ trunnion, $50 latch parts, and between $150-$300 worth of work to modify the receiver. Then when you're done, you have a folding stock that blocks the optic mount. It's not a direct comparison. I'm sure Magpul could design an uber-Zhukov stock that mixed a super strong metal hinge and latch mechanism with polymer body but it would end up a $250+ product that they'd sell two or three of. The Zhukov is fine for its intended purpose and price point. I'm just glad I live in Texas where if the SHTF in the middle of winter, everyone would just stay home a few days until the ice melted. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
All this over one cracked stock. Funny how it only took one video to get the internet in an uproar. One video, and the stocks have been available for how long without anyone having major issues? This is utterly ridiculous. I've been hard on Magpul about the sand-color dye-it-yourself BS and the awful mag stop on the Gen M3 mags, but this reaction is totally overblown. It's an affordable folding stock with decent ergonomics that doesn't block the AK's poorly positioned optics mount that doesn't require permanent or expensive modifications to the host weapon's receiver. The wire folders fill a similar role but are harder to find, more expensive, and have terrible ergonomics with no adjustments. The Bonesteel folder seems to a good choice but it appears that availability can be bad, they are expensive, and offer no adjustability. The triangle and century-series folders are a better stock, but then on top of a $100 stock, you need a hard to find $150+ trunnion, $50 latch parts, and between $150-$300 worth of work to modify the receiver. Then when you're done, you have a folding stock that blocks the optic mount. It's not a direct comparison. I'm sure Magpul could design an uber-Zhukov stock that mixed a super strong metal hinge and latch mechanism with polymer body but it would end up a $250+ product that they'd sell two or three of. The Zhukov is fine for its intended purpose and price point. I'm just glad I live in Texas where if the SHTF in the middle of winter, everyone would just stay home a few days until the ice melted.
$250.00? It wouldn't be anywhere near that, lol |
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Posted: 3/3/2016 8:28:15 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just a note about the Bonesteel folder, I have one on my AES-10B. It's a tight fit and broke one rubber mallet but it's built like a tank and very solid. I added a Magpul LCS stock. Ignore the color, I like to spice things up. Also note, you don't have to cut the Tang like some ACE side folders. http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy77/tjk45rocket/DSC00564.jpg http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy77/tjk45rocket/DSC00562.jpg http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy77/tjk45rocket/DSC00562.jpg http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy77/tjk45rocket/DSC00580.jpg http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy77/tjk45rocket/DSC00580.jpg And just for fun, the whole family
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy77/tjk45rocket/IMG_1241.jpg So that's where all the Chinese 5 cell man purses went !!! Have one and wish I picked up another but not paying the ridiculous prices !!!! |
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Posted: 3/4/2016 4:53:22 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So that's where all the Chinese 5 cell man purses went !!! Have one and wish I picked up another but not paying the ridiculous prices !!!! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Just a note about the Bonesteel folder, I have one on my AES-10B. It's a tight fit and broke one rubber mallet but it's built like a tank and very solid. I added a Magpul LCS stock. Ignore the color, I like to spice things up. Also note, you don't have to cut the Tang like some ACE side folders. http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy77/tjk45rocket/DSC00564.jpg http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy77/tjk45rocket/DSC00562.jpg http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy77/tjk45rocket/DSC00562.jpg http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy77/tjk45rocket/DSC00580.jpg http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy77/tjk45rocket/DSC00580.jpg And just for fun, the whole family
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy77/tjk45rocket/IMG_1241.jpg So that's where all the Chinese 5 cell man purses went !!! Have one and wish I picked up another but not paying the ridiculous prices !!!! I did order a bunch, I love them. The price fluctuates but I had been looking for years and hadn't found any so I jumped on the when I did. I have a few I've been trying to sell here locally. This is where I purchased mine Major Surplus. Keep an eye out, they've had specials in the past where it was 3 for $12. |
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Posted: 3/4/2016 6:27:44 PM EDT
[#44]
The mag release failure on the AR is pretty easy to understand. If the space under the mag release has water in it and it freezes, a mechanical lock is formed and you will be unable to depress the mag release button until the ice is melted or pulverized to an extent that it will no longer block the movement of the button. One could possibly blow hot air into it to thaw but you would have to put your lips around it to seal and you risk the old tongue on the frozen flag pole routine.
The Magpul stock failure may be attributed to a combination of cold and maybe a pocket or recess that would retain water and when it froze it expanded and pushed things around enough to maybe cause some knit line to separate. Lots of variables in the polymer or molding process that may have attributed to the failure. |
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Posted: 3/4/2016 9:36:37 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just a note about the Bonesteel folder, I have one on my AES-10B. It's a tight fit and broke one rubber mallet but it's built like a tank and very solid. I added a Magpul LCS stock. Ignore the color, I like to spice things up. Also note, you don't have to cut the Tang like some ACE side folders. http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy77/tjk45rocket/DSC00564.jpg http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy77/tjk45rocket/DSC00562.jpg http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy77/tjk45rocket/DSC00562.jpg http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy77/tjk45rocket/DSC00580.jpg http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy77/tjk45rocket/DSC00580.jpg And just for fun, the whole family
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy77/tjk45rocket/IMG_1241.jpg Should be red not blue. |
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Posted: 3/5/2016 2:20:55 AM EDT
[#46]
I have two of these stocks and started messing around with them this evening. I found that if I smack the butt of the rifle with my off hand at a very slight angle on the left side where the locking device is located, they will both unlock and cause the stock to swing open. I don't have to smack them very hard to cause this to happen. I wonder if, combined with the cold temperature that this was what may have caused the stock in the video to break? If it unlocked when hitting the butt of the rifle on the ground it would seem that the force would have gone directly to the hinged area on the opposite side of the stock. The polymer around the hinge pin is rather thin. Any thoughts?
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Posted: 3/5/2016 10:45:05 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Plus shipping probably close to 95 bucks, PLENTY of new takeoffs for sale for much less, lotsa guys dumping them cheap, 80 shipped or less...saw one guy sell one for 60 bucks. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Midway has them on sale for $84.99 .... ill try one at that price Plus shipping probably close to 95 bucks, PLENTY of new takeoffs for sale for much less, lotsa guys dumping them cheap, 80 shipped or less...saw one guy sell one for 60 bucks. Maybe I am on the wrong forum for AK stuff ..... The EE has only had 2-3 over the last 30 days pop up and each was $90+ ... Either way I was ordering a 300blk barrel I needed so shipping wasn't a concern |
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Posted: 3/6/2016 1:24:14 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have you read about the Korean War? There is some interesting info concerning firearms in subzero wx and what our fighting men had to do to keep them running. You might be surprised how close the conditions MAC created are to that war. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Cold breaks shit, period. Yes it does. Some things break more easily than others, plan accordingly. That little love tap to the ground that Mac gave that stock hardly constitutes torture. Youre right. I forgot Im talking to a bunch of guys that shower with their guns, then run them outside and bury them in the snow in case the SHTF while theyre shoveling their driveway. Thank god MAC recreated that likely scenario. So now you know the Zhukov stock will get you killed because it cant handle being frozen and hit against the ground. Like it even matters if the stock broke since the gun wouldnt fire anyway. Im surprised people arent in here shitting on the AK now. It looked like the AK failed as much as the stock did. Have you read about the Korean War? There is some interesting info concerning firearms in subzero wx and what our fighting men had to do to keep them running. You might be surprised how close the conditions MAC created are to that war. Try running around with 1/25 in Alaska. Shit gets cold up there... |
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Posted: 3/6/2016 3:07:16 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Try running around with 1/25 in Alaska. Shit gets cold up there... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Cold breaks shit, period. Yes it does. Some things break more easily than others, plan accordingly. That little love tap to the ground that Mac gave that stock hardly constitutes torture. Youre right. I forgot Im talking to a bunch of guys that shower with their guns, then run them outside and bury them in the snow in case the SHTF while theyre shoveling their driveway. Thank god MAC recreated that likely scenario. So now you know the Zhukov stock will get you killed because it cant handle being frozen and hit against the ground. Like it even matters if the stock broke since the gun wouldnt fire anyway. Im surprised people arent in here shitting on the AK now. It looked like the AK failed as much as the stock did. Have you read about the Korean War? There is some interesting info concerning firearms in subzero wx and what our fighting men had to do to keep them running. You might be surprised how close the conditions MAC created are to that war. Try running around with 1/25 in Alaska. Shit gets cold up there... I used to live in Fairbanks, AK. Now I live in the upper Midwest, and people think it gets cold here. They really have no clue... |
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Posted: 3/6/2016 5:27:21 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I used to live in Fairbanks, AK. Now I live in the upper Midwest, and people think it gets cold here. They really have no clue... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Try running around with 1/25 in Alaska. Shit gets cold up there... I used to live in Fairbanks, AK. Now I live in the upper Midwest, and people think it gets cold here. They really have no clue... Some 40 years ago or so I lived in western Montana, I vividly remember hitting -30, wind chill made it close to -50, it was so cold you could literally spit and when it hit the ground it would bounce because it had already frozen. |
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