Do the rubber buffers that they have that go in to AK's work?
Edit to title to improve this threads ability to be found in a future search.(fixed spelling) dryflash3

You shouldn't need to waste the money if your seeing signs that your bolt assembly and rear trunion have impact signs then look into a new recoil spring assembly to remedy it correctly. I see no need for the buffer maybe someone else with more expertise can argue the point for its need.

somehow it double posted sorry

Agreed. Furthermore, I think that the buffers actually make recoil worse by shortening the stroke.

Thanks, I figures I would check before, clicking to buy one.

In the world of AK's it seems to be personal preference. Some people hate them and same won't build without them. Cheap insurance if you like. Some guns won't run with them in and I have even seen guys trim them so they would work. All 4 of my builds have them in and function great. I have even seen guys use heavy truck inner tubes and cut to fit. Any thing to stop the metal on metal contact.

I use then in the rifles that I shoot suppressed, but only to protect the gun.

I put 15% over Wolff springs in all my AK's and I can put a piece of tape on the trunnion  and still show signs of contact. Go figure. All your doing with a buffer is stopping the metal to metal. Like I said, some guns and guys like them and some hate. I would spend $12 just to see. You need to watch the video of Larry Vickers shooting a new Arsenal AK74 on You Tube. I'm not good with links but if you Google it and look for the video by him called " Inside the AK74 " you will be shocked. He pulls the dust cover off and.............. the gas tube and puts some rounds down range in slow mo! I Want to here what all the AK guys have to say about the bolt carrier not supposed to hit the trunnion. I know, weak spring on the new Arsenal. Rrrrrriighhhhhttt. Like I said, you will get guys that will tell you your wasting your money but I will tell you either way your AK will probably out last you or your $ to buy ammo!

If someone is not computer illiterate like me would find that video of Larry Vickers shootin that Arsenal AK74 and post the link that would be cool. If you haven't watched it, boy you need too! It's crazy to watch that AK74 without the gas tube run in slow mo. And if I'm not mistaken he is running it in full auto?

Looks like the Israelis use them:

I'm on the + side of adding a buffer to your AK in this 'debate' ... Though I must say, I really have no idea why anyone feels strongly for or against this 'buffer' topic.


Anyway,
In my case, I have an SLR-107 with a Blackjack buffer installed (I think that's the one, but it don't matter much really).

I can say with certainty that it has softened the recoil just a tad, have put many rounds through with no issues feeding/cycling/etc. For me it feels good, works good, no problems; at all. So why not have it, sure I don't 'need' it... Then again, this isn't a topic about 'what do I need', this is mostly about "what can I improve".

So if you are looking to improve performance just a little tiny bit, then spend those big-dollars [$5-15?] and get one.

This is like leather seats in a car, it don't really do much for the vehicle. Though some people enjoy sitting in leather while they drive and others just hate it, I'm with the sitting in leather crowd on this one (enjoying the soft[er] recoil). You people that hate leather-seats/recoil-buffers, make me sick

Except leather seats can't make your car stop running. Also, the "improving performance" is subjective since buffers, for me, increased felt recoil.

I haven't handled the new Galil Ace, but from looking at that pic the buffer is there more than likely to help prevent the carrier from jumping the rails due to how short the piston is.

If you look at that video mentioned ^^ the bullet is also tumbling. Some folks say this is normal too, and that it will correct itself. I don't see how since it is near the point of tumbling and seems to be getting more severe instead of stable.

Maybe that's not a new Arsenal in that video??

 The way I found the video was on another forum and yes there was a long discussion on the bullet tumbling but I can't remember what the final outcome was on that one. Are they new guns? I think the first one is new but the second with wood furniture has been well used. Both are smackin the trunnion pretty hard though. But it does seem that guys against buffers are pretty vocal about it but us guys that use them are like, if you don't want use them, oh well.  

The full size rifles have them too, here is a picture from Atlantic:

On something like a mini/micro Draco...yes it is in the design.  A non suppressed standard AK?  Gen. Kalashnikov says NYET!

Well see there? I never noticed it was 2 different rifles!

I can't see how it can hurt.  I've had some try to claim it can cause problems but they've never been able to explain the mechanics of "how".

One unfortunate problem with most US receivers is a slight variance in the rake  of the receiver and the relative rail height.  There is a reason that return spring guides were numbered to the gun.  The return spring guide functions to keep the carrier pushed down against the rail.  Too much slop in this area and the carrier can jump the rail.  Dropping in a quality buffer like the one from Buffer tech (not that cheesy piece of junk from Blackjack) can work around this problem and is a lot more economical than going through a pile of return spring guides to find a lower one, or welding up and recutting your existing one.

As to increasing felt recoil?  I've never felt it, but whatever . .. .

So my comment is, - may not help, but doesn't hurt.  

I think the people who claim they increase any kind of force on the rear of the any part if the gun aren't yhinking the physics through.

When the carrier starts moving backwards via tge burst of gas it's already slowing down via nit only the force of the spring but also friction. When it hits the buffer it's already slowed considerably. When it finally hits the buffer think if the buffer as sort of a crumple zone on a car. It's nit exact, but it further dispates the emery and slows the carrier down even more.

Having said that you might have to worry about it eventually breaking apart and pieces jamming up your gun.

Keep in mind nothing should be hitting the rear of the gun regardless. If it is get a new spring. I just like buffers as extra protection.

The back of  my bolt always hits the trunion during recoil. It makes a nice circular blemish pattern on the trunion.

That would make me a tad nervous. Just a tad. How old is the spring in it?  Wolff makes a 15% stronger spring that is suppose to help and also smooth out cycling. Like anything else some will tell you it's fine and some will say it's not. And at that point tge impact has been reduced by the spring but it still is an impact. Just keep an eye on it and on the rivets to make sure they aren't coming loose.

Truth be told my Saiga 12 hit the trunion but anyone who has a Saiga probably knows they can have gas issues.

Thank You!

The

It has the extra power Wolff spring and a milled telescoping recoil assembly. Built by Lancaster, I know they don't have  a great reputation, but my converted Saiga does the exact same thing. From what I can see the bolt is free to move backward in recoil and can protrude a few mm out the back of the bolt carrier so it can lightly tap the trunion even if the bolt carrier does not touch the trunion. I don't think it's a big deal and have no worries about it.

The carrier in these weapons was designed to strike the trunnion. Notice how everything back there has a very wide contact area that matches, for the most part. To stay in that range of maximum rearward stroke that would cause spent cases to reliably eject and still never strike the trunnion would be difficult to impossible with a wide variety of ammo without a redesign, and even more difficult with Saiga 12, Vepr 12, and Catamount Fury shotguns. There are millions and millions of these weapons out there getting rode hard with no extra power springs or buffer in them and they are just fine. Mikhail and associates got it right the first time. Many of us spend more time inspecting and taking pictures than pulling the trigger. In doing that, we often fail to experience and realize how hearty these weapons really are. It is either running well or it is not. Aside from keeping the bore relatively clean, keeping the bolt face dry and applying minimal thin lube now and then, there isn't much to worry about with a properly built decent quality AK unless you are firing corrosive ammo or someone has done something stupid to the weapon.
Shoot more.... worry less.

It's basically a " To each his own " What I get a kick out of is on some other forums if you even mention a Recoil Buffer, they practically take you out to Main St and stone you, with rocks not weed. Little Colorado, not so funny, inside joke! If it works for your gun great, if not so be it. If your gun has some kind of failure using them, you don't here me telling you to sell you gun. So if my guns work great with them and I'm happy using them, don't tell me I'm wasting my time and $. Kind of like putting Fox Piggyback shocks on your 4x4. Did your truck come with them? No. If they are so great why don't the come from factory? Because most people won't put they're 4x4 through terrain that benefits from them. So don't tell me I'm wasting $ because they fit and I use my 4x4 hard enough to benefit from them
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Just Sayin  

So physics is way off?  The AK was designed so that the bolt carrier should stop just shy of hitting the rear trunion. And you're trying to say that the spring isn't slowing the carrier as it travels back towards the rear of the gun?  This is remedial physics. That spring is most certainly slowing the bolt carrier, as it does its gaining potential energy. Once the carrier stops traveling backwards the springs potential energy converts into Kinetic energy.  

And you really think that a carrier that stops just shy of striking the rear won't reliably eject casings?  Huh?  I mean, everyone who runs buffers immediately knows now that you're wrong. Sure it short strokes on some guns, but most people's guns operate and eject just fine with buffers.

So you're trying to argue physics? There are plenty of examples to prove you wrong in the real world too. You're trying to insinuate that the carrier striking the rear, even slowed by the spring, won't eventually harm something in the gun?!  I mean, I personally know people tgat have cracked rear grunions from carrier strikes. A quick Google shows tons of the same. I'm sorry but you're just wrong. Just because you're handy with your hands and can work a drill press, hydraulic press, mills and what not doesn't mean you understand the physics behind the transfer of energy in a firearm. Energy always has to go somewhere. Always.  If the spring and friction doesn't handle the energy it goes into the rear trunion and beats it up which causes cracking.



Hitting the rear trunion isn't something that is really suppose to happen.  It's called over gassing and it can crack the reciever, loosen rivets and cause other problems.

Well, my IO AKM247 was apparently designed to only work with a buffer because it malfunctions if it is removed.

My understanding is that no, MTK did not design the carrier to impact the rear trunnion...and in reality it should not...or not enough to make impact marks readily apparent....my guns don't.  Look for excessive overgassing and weak recoil spring.

Well it IS an I.O  

I use one with my mak. It's purely out of personal preference and my belief that it will make it last just a bit longer than sans buffer. I have shot 3 mags without it just to see if my bolt carrier strikes the top cover, but there were no marks at all.

Yeah they do that for reliability, just like I crank my V-plug in my Saiga 12 to let the most gas in so I don't worry about FTF's or FTE's.

It doesn't mean it was designed to be that way or hitting into the trunion is a good thing.

There are plenty if AK's out there that don't hit(properly made and gassed ones) and tons of examples of damage from the carrier hitting the trunion.

Like I alludedto earlier, for most shooters it's not really an issue due to low round count.