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Originally Posted By ncthorn1623:
To be fair, comparing 5.56 to the significantly slower 7.63x39 isn't a good comparison from a wear perspective. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By ncthorn1623:
Originally Posted By ilmonster:
Been following all the Battlefield Las Vegas threads - just fantastic information!! Thanks so much for taking the time to post! Really appreciated. One quick question on ammo. You mention that you're using Wolf steel case ammo (in the grey cases). Are the WASR's that have gone 100K rounds done so with these bi-metallic rounds? I ask as similar bimetallic rounds can chew through AR barrels (throats, gas holes) in 10K-20K rounds. If so, those are some durable eastern block chrome lined barrels!! To be fair, comparing 5.56 to the significantly slower 7.63x39 isn't a good comparison from a wear perspective. Also, BFV is using their guns for full-auto at close range. They don't consider a barrel to be "shot out" unless its key-holing at 25m (or is it 15? It's somewhere in this thread). Any other user would have long since replaced their barrel by then. |
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Bump for an awesome thread. Now I'm reconsidering my potential N-PAP purchase, at least at the current price point.
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Ron,
Any chance you guys have fielded some of the newer VEPR rifles from FIME/MSR? After reading how well your VEPR-12's were holding up, I'm curious to know if they're still doing well, and if you've decided to acquire some of their "rifle brethren" or not. |
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Originally Posted By RandomGyro:
Ron, Any chance you guys have fielded some of the newer VEPR rifles from FIME/MSR? After reading how well your VEPR-12's were holding up, I'm curious to know if they're still doing well, and if you've decided to acquire some of their "rifle brethren" or not. View Quote We don't have any of the VEPR rifles on the line but we do have a Saiga 7.62x39 conversion for customers who HAVE to shoot a real Russian weapon. As for the VEPR-12's not one single failure since they've been put on the line. V/R Ron |
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I haven't updated this thread with any new info lately but I was talking to the armorers about the 9mm AK's we got from Atlantic Arms. Those things are still running strong with no broken parts and zero issues. We've had two of them on the line (both running suppressed) for a little over/under 12 months and they are running flawlessly. It's a GREAT weapon for females or younger kids that just don't have the size and weight to handle a 7.62x39 AK variant properly in our range.
On another note, we are going to test a couple different AK's on the range. Since this thread was started in order to help the average shooter on what works and what doesn't work, we are going to build several AK's from flats. Some receivers will get the "home"-made type of heat treating and others will get proper heat treating from a facility that specializes in it. I want to do some hard testing and see how well they hold up to a factory WASR or Arsenal. We will be using both chrome-line and nitride barrels and see if we notice any difference. V/R Ron |
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Thanks for the update and I guess it is time to save for one of those 9mm AKs. |
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You KNOW it's going to be an "Interesting" Job when you see the 5 Gal tub of Anal-ease with a popsicle stick sticking out of it and a VERY frightened looking gerbil hiding in his cage. AJK07734
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Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
I haven't updated this thread with any new info lately but I was talking to the armorers about the 9mm AK's we got from Atlantic Arms. Those things are still running strong with no broken parts and zero issues. We've had two of them on the line (both running suppressed) for a little over/under 12 months and they are running flawlessly. It's a GREAT weapon for females or younger kids that just don't have the size and weight to handle a 7.62x39 AK variant properly in our range. On another note, we are going to test a couple different AK's on the range. Since this thread was started in order to help the average shooter on what works and what doesn't work, we are going to build several AK's from flats. Some receivers will get the "home"-made type of heat treating and others will get proper heat treating from a facility that specializes in it. I want to do some hard testing and see how well they hold up to a factory WASR or Arsenal. We will be using both chrome-line and nitride barrels and see if we notice any difference. V/R Ron View Quote If you wouldn't mind, please install a buffer in one or two of them. It would be nice to see if buffers do or do not cause damage over time (so long as the guns run with them installed, that is). |
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"Nothing says 'come to my tree stand for a good cornholing' more than a Browning Buckmark sticker on your oversized truck." - dport
"Tactical" is a mindset, not an equipment list. |
Originally Posted By AEnemaBay:
If you wouldn't mind, please install a buffer in one or two of them. It would be nice to see if buffers do or do not cause damage over time (so long as the guns run with them installed, that is). View Quote |
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...let me clue you in. I am not in danger, Skyler. I AM the danger. A guy opens his door and gets shot and you think that of me? No. I am the one who knocks!
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Originally Posted By 10mm_:
If it wasn't for the safety of his customers I would want to know how an IO would do lolol View Quote I believe I made mention and I'm not sure what the relationship between IO and Pioneer Arms is but those AK's did not last. Trunions cracked within days and other catastrophic failures. We took them off the line, welded up in the inside of the receiver, punched the barrel, destroyed bolt face and welded all back together to use as a display gun for customers. V/R Ron |
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Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
I believe I made mention and I'm not sure what the relationship between IO and Pioneer Arms is but those AK's did not last. Trunions cracked within days and other catastrophic failures. We took them off the line, welded up in the inside of the receiver, punched the barrel, destroyed bolt face and welded all back together to use as a display gun for customers. V/R Ron View Quote |
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...let me clue you in. I am not in danger, Skyler. I AM the danger. A guy opens his door and gets shot and you think that of me? No. I am the one who knocks!
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Originally Posted By 10mm_:
Hopefully someone else can comment if those are the same gun. View Quote Pioneer Arms were made in Poland and contracted by IO. They used the same build practices and, as far as I know, parts as IO does. IO was trying to capitalize on the "Radom" name by fooling people into thinking the rifles came from the FB Radom plant, when in fact they were just in the same town. |
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"Nothing says 'come to my tree stand for a good cornholing' more than a Browning Buckmark sticker on your oversized truck." - dport
"Tactical" is a mindset, not an equipment list. |
Honestly one of the best threads probably on the internet. Thanks for keeping us update and informed along the way with so much information. Just had two questions, one since I rolled the dice on a C93v2 not too long ago I was wondering how well they are holding up since hopefully the round count should be up? I didn't see any updates with exploded rifles so thinking they are still chugging along just fine and also I was curious about your krinks and how they are doing specifically if you guys had any SLR-104UR's online, thanks?!
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Originally Posted By Frankyoz:
Honestly one of the best threads probably on the internet. Thanks for keeping us update and informed along the way with so much information. Just had two questions, one since I rolled the dice on a C93v2 not too long ago I was wondering how well they are holding up since hopefully the round count should be up? I didn't see any updates with exploded rifles so thinking they are still chugging along just fine and also I was curious about your krinks and how they are doing specifically if you guys had any SLR-104UR's online, thanks?! View Quote The C93V2 doesn't get as much use the standard WASR's but it hasn't suffered from anything breaking at this point. The carrier still looks decent, no noticeable wear or "egging" of the hammer/trigger pin holes and it's still shooting "straight". V/R Ron |
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Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
The C93V2 doesn't get as much use the standard WASR's but it hasn't suffered from anything breaking at this point. The carrier still looks decent, no noticeable wear or "egging" of the hammer/trigger pin holes and it's still shooting "straight". V/R Ron View Quote Any idea on round count? |
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Tonto Gonzales, but my friends call me Bubba
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Thank you very much for this post...
Any experience with the Century RAS? I figure they share internals with the C39v2, so that could serve as a proxy somewhat. - AG |
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Leukemia sucks.
Smart as a horse, and hung like Einstein... |
Originally Posted By Aggie_Gunner:
Thank you very much for this post... Any experience with the Century RAS? I figure they share internals with the C39v2, so that could serve as a proxy somewhat. - AG View Quote AKOU has plenty of experience with breaking RAS47's in semi-auto. If Ron has any on the line, I'd assume they're breaking left and right. |
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If a manufacturer really believed they were building a quality AK and wanted to seriously judge their own rifles, what better place for R&D than sending a few to BFLV?
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Originally Posted By rb889:
AKOU has plenty of experience with breaking RAS47's in semi-auto. If Ron has any on the line, I'd assume they're breaking left and right. View Quote He has some and at last count they were doing fine. The C39V2 only shares the bolt and carrier with the RAS47, and only some of the bolts suffered from poor heat treatment, not all. The C396V2 is a milled receiver which is not made by Century, so none of the rivet problems, trunion and head spacing issues of the RAS47. Further, the V2 resolved all issues associated with the C39 original like the sling mount points and the like. The V2 addressed a list of problems from the original , none of which affected function other than a run of soft bolts early on, and they upgraded the barrels to a Green Mountain melonite barrel, which has proven very accurate for an AK. They also went to Wolff springs , where the original springs were not the correct poundage, resulting in some peening on the rear of the bolt carrier tail and the receiver. I still plan to replace the bolt and carrier with a Polish one, but the rifles are fine. I still wouldn't buy a RAS47 due to Century's rivet mishaps. This thread is great for information, let's not fill it up with conjecture and misinformation with comparisons to rifles that aren't remotely the same. |
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Tonto Gonzales, but my friends call me Bubba
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Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
He has some and at last count they were doing fine. The C39V2 only shares the bolt and carrier with the RAS47, and only some of the bolts suffered from poor heat treatment, not all. The C396V2 is a milled receiver which is not made by Century, so none of the rivet problems, trunion and head spacing issues of the RAS47. Further, the V2 resolved all issues associated with the C39 original like the sling mount points and the like. The V2 addressed a list of problems from the original , none of which affected function other than a run of soft bolts early on, and they upgraded the barrels to a Green Mountain melonite barrel, which has proven very accurate for an AK. They also went to Wolff springs , where the original springs were not the correct poundage, resulting in some peening on the rear of the bolt carrier tail and the receiver. I still plan to replace the bolt and carrier with a Polish one, but the rifles are fine. I still wouldn't buy a RAS47 due to Century's rivet mishaps. This thread is great for information, let's not fill it up with conjecture and misinformation with comparisons to rifles that aren't remotely the same. View Quote I wasn't even talking about the C39, thank you. Got one of the early models myself, right after they started lining the bore with chrome. |
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Originally Posted By rb889:
I wasn't even talking about the C39, thank you. Got one of the early models myself, right after they started lining the bore with chrome. View Quote My bad. I apologize. I will point out though that the V2 uses a melonite instead of chrome lined like on the C39, both good barrels. |
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Tonto Gonzales, but my friends call me Bubba
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Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
My bad. I apologize. I will point out though that the V2 uses a melonite instead of chrome lined like on the C39, both good barrels. View Quote Agreed, the green mountain barrels are superb, and the C39's tend to be fairly accurate. Mine is a little odd, though. I was able to snap off more than a few sub-MOA to 1.25 MOA 5-shot groups with Golden Tiger, but I have yet to find any brass cased ammo that holds tighter than 3 MOA. |
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"Some hills are not worth dying on and internet drama is one of them IMO...." m1awolf
R.I.P. WMD Proud supporter of Team Ranstad Tennessee Squire |
Originally Posted By Jimbo45:
Well maybe, but it seems the RAS47 made it to 5000 rounds, barely. Can't say that for the DDI. View Quote Barely sounds about right, it was falling apart. Hell, the stock was held on with duct tape. Cheesy furniture aside, Century's rivets still scare the shit out of me, and the wear patters on the bolt were concerning. Like Rob says, I wouldn't recommend a RAS47 to anyone. I'd say DDI deserves a chance to work out the extractor issue, since they just introduced their rifle. Looked to me like they had bad heat treat on the extractors, or they used a steel that was too hard and brittle. I was hoping they would've hit one out of the park with that, too, but it's for the best that they find out about the extractor issue earlier, rather than later. Given time, they'll find and fix the issue. I'm wondering if they could just order extractors from Bulgaria or some other combloc country until they can produce their own in-house extractors that don't have issues. If I had the money to burn, I'd pick up one of their triangle stock models and swap the extractor for a surplus one, see if makes a difference. |
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Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
I haven't updated this thread with any new info lately but I was talking to the armorers about the 9mm AK's we got from Atlantic Arms. Those things are still running strong with no broken parts and zero issues. We've had two of them on the line (both running suppressed) for a little over/under 12 months and they are running flawlessly. It's a GREAT weapon for females or younger kids that just don't have the size and weight to handle a 7.62x39 AK variant properly in our range. On another note, we are going to test a couple different AK's on the range. Since this thread was started in order to help the average shooter on what works and what doesn't work, we are going to build several AK's from flats. Some receivers will get the "home"-made type of heat treating and others will get proper heat treating from a facility that specializes in it. I want to do some hard testing and see how well they hold up to a factory WASR or Arsenal. We will be using both chrome-line and nitride barrels and see if we notice any difference. V/R Ron View Quote I wasn't aware that Atlantic had 9mm AK's, that may be something I'll look into... I'm interested in seeing the results of your heat treating test, I've never done mine at home, I use the Polish blanks and I've always sent the receiver out to be properly heat treated but always wondered if the home treated receiver could withstand the same amount of abuse/round count... Much appreciate your input on this thread...and its on my bucket list to one day visit BFL, in fact I was just telling my wife we should go there for our 25th anniversary, she gave me the "nice try" look...LOL |
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RIP: LTC D. Cabrera and SGT C. Newman-29OCT11-OEF
FL, USA
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C39V2 kicking butt.
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"Everybody gotta die sometime Red"
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RIP: LTC D. Cabrera and SGT C. Newman-29OCT11-OEF
FL, USA
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Any updates?
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"Everybody gotta die sometime Red"
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Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
I haven't updated this thread with any new info lately but I was talking to the armorers about the 9mm AK's we got from Atlantic Arms. Those things are still running strong with no broken parts and zero issues. We've had two of them on the line (both running suppressed) for a little over/under 12 months and they are running flawlessly. It's a GREAT weapon for females or younger kids that just don't have the size and weight to handle a 7.62x39 AK variant properly in our range. On another note, we are going to test a couple different AK's on the range. Since this thread was started in order to help the average shooter on what works and what doesn't work, we are going to build several AK's from flats. Some receivers will get the "home"-made type of heat treating and others will get proper heat treating from a facility that specializes in it. I want to do some hard testing and see how well they hold up to a factory WASR or Arsenal. We will be using both chrome-line and nitride barrels and see if we notice any difference. V/R Ron View Quote |
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Dextra gladius, leva scutuum, corpore honor. "In the right hand the sword, in the left the shield, in ourselves honor;"
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Originally Posted By sandblaster:
Any updates? View Quote We lost several AK's over the last 2-3 weeks and it's MY opinion that had we changed recoil springs sooner AND had a buffer inside the action, we wouldn't have lost that many. Also.. we are going to put our first AK on the line that was made with a AK-Builder flat and heat-treated with the MAPP gas method. Not trying to destroy anything on purpose, just want to test and research for ourselves if having the whole receiver heat-treated will make a difference under heavy use. V/R Ron |
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Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
I am NOW a huge fan of using the buffers inside the receiver We lost several AK's over the last 2-3 weeks and it's MY opinion that had we changed recoil springs sooner AND had a buffer inside the action, we wouldn't have lost that many. View Quote |
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"Nothing says 'come to my tree stand for a good cornholing' more than a Browning Buckmark sticker on your oversized truck." - dport
"Tactical" is a mindset, not an equipment list. |
Originally Posted By AEnemaBay:
Very interesting. If you could, would it be possible to have one rifle using just a buffer and one that you just change out the recoil spring on a regular basis? I've been pretty vocal about not using buffers, but will certainly say I've wrong given enough data. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By AEnemaBay:
Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
I am NOW a huge fan of using the buffers inside the receiver We lost several AK's over the last 2-3 weeks and it's MY opinion that had we changed recoil springs sooner AND had a buffer inside the action, we wouldn't have lost that many. |
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Team Ranstad
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Now you have two AK... AK win every time.
Seriously, love your threads, very interesting to read about your experiences. |
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Wow! I'll guess that's had a few mags though it.
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A little JB Weld and that thing will be back on the line tomorrow.
Very informative thread. Thanks, Ron! |
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Hatred of the state is love of humanity.
"Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods." -H.L. Mencken |
Hatred of the state is love of humanity.
"Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods." -H.L. Mencken |
Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Thank God that it cracked in half when handing it back to the RSO. This rifle went onto the line back on 06 OCT 16 and was just pronounced dead about 10 minutes ago. https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t35.0-12/17837820_10208642415969619_763186934_o.jpg?oh=3676dc5b7cc5956497cc649cb39c62bc&oe=58EAC2AB View Quote |
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Squire
Without blood, it doesn't count! I survived ARFbortion2016 and all I got was this stupid sigline |
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
WA, USA
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This thread continues to deliver, thanks for taking the time to post HendersonDefense.
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Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
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Any difference in reliability/durability between 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 when the round count gets high? Especially concerning barrel life.
Do you have any 5.56mm AKs on the line? |
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Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Thank God that it cracked in half when handing it back to the RSO. This rifle went onto the line back on 06 OCT 16 and was just pronounced dead about 10 minutes ago. https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t35.0-12/17837820_10208642415969619_763186934_o.jpg?oh=3676dc5b7cc5956497cc649cb39c62bc&oe=58EAC2AB View Quote |
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PalmettoStateArmory:
"speaking for the many" is trolling and will be subject to moderation. |
Excellent thread, thanks so much to Battlefield Vegas for supplying all of us with such great data.
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Have you ever reached out to Century Arms? A while back they had 100% factory made posties.
I've seen both a Romanian and Yugo that were 100% factory originals brought in as post samples. |
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Kopec
I'm going to buy a team membership just so I can ignore you. I'm all the more convinced this is an LGBT forum with a gun problem. - eesmith |
Originally Posted By AR_DIESEL:
6 months?! what was the round count? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By AR_DIESEL:
Originally Posted By HendersonDefense:
Thank God that it cracked in half when handing it back to the RSO. This rifle went onto the line back on 06 OCT 16 and was just pronounced dead about 10 minutes ago. https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t35.0-12/17837820_10208642415969619_763186934_o.jpg?oh=3676dc5b7cc5956497cc649cb39c62bc&oe=58EAC2AB |
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...let me clue you in. I am not in danger, Skyler. I AM the danger. A guy opens his door and gets shot and you think that of me? No. I am the one who knocks!
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Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
He has some and at last count they were doing fine. The C39V2 only shares the bolt and carrier with the RAS47, and only some of the bolts suffered from poor heat treatment, not all. The C396V2 is a milled receiver which is not made by Century, so none of the rivet problems, trunion and head spacing issues of the RAS47. Further, the V2 resolved all issues associated with the C39 original like the sling mount points and the like. The V2 addressed a list of problems from the original , none of which affected function other than a run of soft bolts early on, and they upgraded the barrels to a Green Mountain melonite barrel, which has proven very accurate for an AK. They also went to Wolff springs , where the original springs were not the correct poundage, resulting in some peening on the rear of the bolt carrier tail and the receiver. I still plan to replace the bolt and carrier with a Polish one, but the rifles are fine. I still wouldn't buy a RAS47 due to Century's rivet mishaps. This thread is great for information, let's not fill it up with conjecture and misinformation with comparisons to rifles that aren't remotely the same. View Quote Is it correct that changing to a Polish carrier and bolt will require headspacing? Changing headspacing requires the capability of pressing the barrel further in or pulling it fractionally out, is that right? |
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Originally Posted By Soeharto:
Are you saying that changing to wolf springs will stop peening on the bolt carrier tail, while not affecting cycling? Is there some spring poundage number that is different, optimum? Are you saying it is not a carrier tail metal hardness issue? Is it correct that changing to a Polish carrier and bolt will require headspacing? Changing headspacing requires the capability of pressing the barrel further in or pulling it fractionally out, is that right? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Soeharto:
Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
He has some and at last count they were doing fine. The C39V2 only shares the bolt and carrier with the RAS47, and only some of the bolts suffered from poor heat treatment, not all. The C396V2 is a milled receiver which is not made by Century, so none of the rivet problems, trunion and head spacing issues of the RAS47. Further, the V2 resolved all issues associated with the C39 original like the sling mount points and the like. The V2 addressed a list of problems from the original , none of which affected function other than a run of soft bolts early on, and they upgraded the barrels to a Green Mountain melonite barrel, which has proven very accurate for an AK. They also went to Wolff springs , where the original springs were not the correct poundage, resulting in some peening on the rear of the bolt carrier tail and the receiver. I still plan to replace the bolt and carrier with a Polish one, but the rifles are fine. I still wouldn't buy a RAS47 due to Century's rivet mishaps. This thread is great for information, let's not fill it up with conjecture and misinformation with comparisons to rifles that aren't remotely the same. Is it correct that changing to a Polish carrier and bolt will require headspacing? Changing headspacing requires the capability of pressing the barrel further in or pulling it fractionally out, is that right? Early C39s had weak action springs. Changin to a stronger one prevents the carrier tail from slamming into the receiver. Peening is a problem with the spring, not carrier hardness. If the carrier is soft, it will peen. If the carrier is hard, the receiver will peen. Fuck all that, switch recoil springs and be done with the peen altogether.(Hey, my sister said something similar, once. ) The C39V2 had only one main issue; the lack of a side rail. Century engineers followed the centuries-old tradition of Russian engineers and got piss-drunk on vodka, said "FUCK IT!" and designed their own side rail instead of getting $3 surplus rails, or licensing the mastermount side rail. |
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Originally Posted By rb889:
you can switch bolts/carriers, but you have to check headspace with GO/NO GO gauges to make sure it will function. It's inadvisable to bother with a different bolt or carrier unless there is a problem with the existing one that affects function, because fixing a headspace problem is a PITA. Early C39s had weak action springs. Changin to a stronger one prevents the carrier tail from slamming into the receiver. Peening is a problem with the spring, not carrier hardness. If the carrier is soft, it will peen. If the carrier is hard, the receiver will peen. Fuck all that, switch recoil springs and be done with the peen altogether.(Hey, my sister said something similar, once. ) The C39V2 had only one main issue; the lack of a side rail. Century engineers followed the centuries-old tradition of Russian engineers and got piss-drunk on vodka, said "FUCK IT!" and designed their own side rail instead of getting $3 surplus rails, or licensing the mastermount side rail. View Quote |
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"Nothing says 'come to my tree stand for a good cornholing' more than a Browning Buckmark sticker on your oversized truck." - dport
"Tactical" is a mindset, not an equipment list. |
Originally Posted By AEnemaBay:
The recoil spring has zero effect on the bolt carrier tail as the tail does not contact the rear trunnion or receiver at any point during cycling. View Quote Methinks i need to stop posting while drunk. |
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Originally Posted By Serein:
Any difference in reliability/durability between 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 when the round count gets high? Especially concerning barrel life. Do you have any 5.56mm AKs on the line? View Quote What buffer do you guys use in the AKs? Link? Any interest in acquiring a Dead Air PBS-1 Wolverine suppressor to use on an AK? |
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Originally Posted By Johnson184:
I'm also curious about the 7.62x39 vs 5.45x39 durability and even barrel life even though I'm positive the 5.45 will have a shorter barrel life. What buffer do you guys use in the AKs? Link? Any interest in acquiring a Dead Air PBS-1 Wolverine suppressor to use on an AK? View Quote V/R Ron |
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You must be busy Ron. Started to miss reading your new inputs. I'm glad for one, the WASR is a good rifle for you. It's affordable and tough from your information. So I had to order one. Again, glad to hear from you. I hope business is going well.
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This is my rifle! There are many like it, but this one is mine!
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