The Ultimak...and all its glory

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The Ultimak...and all its glory

Posted: 4/20/2015 3:47:37 PM EDT

Is it just me, or does the Ultimak increase the accuracy of a rifle? I have been mostly using side mounts for optical solutions, but I got a really good deal on an Ultimak so I figured why not give it a try and make my sidefolding 107cr SBR actually able to fold the stock. I installed the Ultimak and mounted my T1. Just shot groups with the same ammo I always use and groups are at least a half inch better. With the RDS and Tula ammo shooting solid 3moa and under groups. Before the SBR and Ultimak it was a 4moa gun. I believe both procedures have made this gun more accurate. I shot some PMC while I was there just for shits and giggles and had multiple 2" groups. Im very pleased. This will remain my setup for the foreseeable future, now I just have to find a light mount for the Ultimak, Any ideas gentlemen?

Posted: 4/20/2015 4:35:10 PM EDT

[#1]

I have had a Primary Arms Micro clone on an Ultimak railed gas tube for several years. Gun has been shot around 4500-5000 rds with this setup and still is dead on. We have shot skeet taped to cardboard backers at around 300 yards from a rest with a 1st shot hit ratio pushing 90%. I'll take that all day long. I found a CAA 5 position adjustable flashlight mount a coupla years ago and have been using that. Works just fine. You could probably find a mid price range offset mount with a one inch tube that would work with 1 inch lights. Ultimak is the way to go on an AK. Keep it simple and to the point. ymmv

Posted: 4/20/2015 5:40:57 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Is it just me, or does the Ultimak increase the accuracy of a rifle?

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No.

There is no amount of tacticool-ness that will make the rifle more accurate. It can however make you more accurate.

There is a possibility however, that bolting something to your barrel can change the POI and frequently it does. So a somewhat unlikely but possible scenario is that bolting something to the barrel may offset something else that was already attached to the barrel and bring your POI back to where you want it and even possibly tighten up groups that were wide due to the aforementioned pre-existing attachment.

Posted: 4/20/2015 6:35:09 PM EDT

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:

No.

There is no amount of tacticool-ness that will make the rifle more accurate. It can however make you more accurate.

There is a possibility however, that bolting something to your barrel can change the POI and frequently it does. So a somewhat unlikely but possible scenario is that bolting something to the barrel may offset something else that was already attached to the barrel and bring your POI back to where you want it and even possibly tighten up groups that were wide due to the aforementioned pre-existing attachment.

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Quoted:

Is it just me, or does the Ultimak increase the accuracy of a rifle?

No.

There is no amount of tacticool-ness that will make the rifle more accurate. It can however make you more accurate.

There is a possibility however, that bolting something to your barrel can change the POI and frequently it does. So a somewhat unlikely but possible scenario is that bolting something to the barrel may offset something else that was already attached to the barrel and bring your POI back to where you want it and even possibly tighten up groups that were wide due to the aforementioned pre-existing attachment.

Could be. I was thinking more along the lines of increasing barrel rigidity, but whatever it is, it definitely improved my 107. Do you guys have any issues with the bolts ever coming loose? I used some red loctite and tightened them as much as they would go without stripping them.

Posted: 4/20/2015 6:58:58 PM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
Do you guys have any issues with the bolts ever coming loose? I used some red loctite and tightened them as much as they would go without stripping them.

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Never had that problem with the one I had, good solid piece the Ultimak, I just found something that worked a whole lot better for me.

Posted: 4/20/2015 9:08:48 PM EDT

[#5]

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Quoted:

Never had that problem with the one I had, good solid piece the Ultimak, I just found something that worked a whole lot better for me.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Do you guys have any issues with the bolts ever coming loose? I used some red loctite and tightened them as much as they would go without stripping them.

Never had that problem with the one I had, good solid piece the Ultimak, I just found something that worked a whole lot better for me.

Which is?

I use a variety of optic mounting solutions. I have side rail mounts on all my right side folders, and have a TWS top cover on my 106f which hasnt failed me yet, and may move to ultimaks for all my left side folders and sell a couple extra RS/arsenal mounts I have. I like everything about it so far minus the extreme heat.

Posted: 4/20/2015 9:38:21 PM EDT

[#6]

I've used the Vltor light mount with thumbscrews. Just make sure to pick a metal light mount, the Ultimaks can get hot.

https://www.vltor.com/shop/light-mounts/sm-o-offset-scout-mount/

Posted: 4/21/2015 12:39:42 AM EDT

[#7]

I'm a fan of the Ultimak, one of my favorite mounts for a MRDS.

Posted: 4/21/2015 9:44:41 AM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
I've used the Vltor light mount with thumbscrews. Just make sure to pick a metal light mount, the Ultimaks can get hot.

https://www.vltor.com/shop/light-mounts/sm-o-offset-scout-mount/

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Oh yeah. That one looks nice, might pick up that one with the QR.

Posted: 4/21/2015 1:25:15 PM EDT

[#9]

There has been much debate about this, but enough people have reported accuracy improvements. I as well have experienced this phenomenon shooting my Ultimak equipped SLR-95 back to back with one of my factory SLR-95's when I had multiple rifles. Some believe it has to do with the way the tube has free space on both ends instead of being jammed tightly in between like the factory gas tube

Posted: 4/21/2015 6:14:51 PM EDT

[#10]

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Quoted:

Which is?

.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Do you guys have any issues with the bolts ever coming loose? I used some red loctite and tightened them as much as they would go without stripping them.

Never had that problem with the one I had, good solid piece the Ultimak, I just found something that worked a whole lot better for me.

Which is?

.

Attero. Best mount for an AK of every one I have tried, and I have pretty much tried them all. https://www.atteroarms.com/

Posted: 4/21/2015 6:17:31 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Is it just me, or does the Ultimak increase the accuracy of a rifle? I have been mostly using side mounts for optical solutions, but I got a really good deal on an Ultimak so I figured why not give it a try and make my sidefolding 107cr SBR actually able to fold the stock. I installed the Ultimak and mounted my T1. Just shot groups with the same ammo I always use and groups are at least a half inch better. With the RDS and Tula ammo shooting solid 3moa and under groups. Before the SBR and Ultimak it was a 4moa gun. I believe both procedures have made this gun more accurate. I shot some PMC while I was there just for shits and giggles and had multiple 2" groups. Im very pleased. This will remain my setup for the foreseeable future, now I just have to find a light mount for the Ultimak, Any ideas gentlemen?

View Quote

I bought a low pro offset rail off of Ebay for my Ultimak, was about $14, and it's a solid piece. Works REALLY WELL with an Inforce WML.

Posted: 4/21/2015 10:20:07 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:

Attero. Best mount for an AK of every one I have tried, and I have pretty much tried them all. https://www.atteroarms.com/

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Do you guys have any issues with the bolts ever coming loose? I used some red loctite and tightened them as much as they would go without stripping them.

Never had that problem with the one I had, good solid piece the Ultimak, I just found something that worked a whole lot better for me.

Which is?

.

Attero. Best mount for an AK of every one I have tried, and I have pretty much tried them all. https://www.atteroarms.com/

Not digging messing with the rear sight. Too many other options that keep your irons intact.

Posted: 4/21/2015 10:21:14 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:

I bought a low pro offset rail off of Ebay for my Ultimak, was about $14, and it's a solid piece. Works REALLY WELL with an Inforce WML.

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Quoted:

Is it just me, or does the Ultimak increase the accuracy of a rifle? I have been mostly using side mounts for optical solutions, but I got a really good deal on an Ultimak so I figured why not give it a try and make my sidefolding 107cr SBR actually able to fold the stock. I installed the Ultimak and mounted my T1. Just shot groups with the same ammo I always use and groups are at least a half inch better. With the RDS and Tula ammo shooting solid 3moa and under groups. Before the SBR and Ultimak it was a 4moa gun. I believe both procedures have made this gun more accurate. I shot some PMC while I was there just for shits and giggles and had multiple 2" groups. Im very pleased. This will remain my setup for the foreseeable future, now I just have to find a light mount for the Ultimak, Any ideas gentlemen?

I bought a low pro offset rail off of Ebay for my Ultimak, was about $14, and it's a solid piece. Works REALLY WELL with an Inforce WML.

Interesting. I need something really low prow so it doesn't interfere with my T1

Posted: 4/21/2015 10:37:09 PM EDT

[#14]

I'd rather use the Attero mount rather than the Ultimak because I don't like scout-style set ups.

Posted: 4/22/2015 7:28:43 AM EDT

[#15]

ultimak is the shiz, and there is something to them changing the harmonics of the barrel in a positive way. IMO you can't beat an ultimak and a mini reddot.

Some inspirational pics for you

Posted: 4/22/2015 11:02:50 AM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
ultimak is the shiz, and there is something to them changing the harmonics of the barrel in a positive way. IMO you can't beat an ultimak and a mini reddot.

Some inspirational pics for you

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b232/NICTRA/105/5096bf73-0ae9-4b6a-bf34-bf3bf985f5f2_zpsatf4owrq.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b232/NICTRA/105/2015-01-18150132_zps719364fd.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b232/NICTRA/aks/100_0359.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b232/NICTRA/temporary_zps508b8575.jpg

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Inspired you have. What kind of light mount in the first pic? Thats basically my exact setup.

Posted: 4/22/2015 11:13:26 AM EDT

[#17]

KZ offset light mount works on Ultimak without interference. HSP Thorntail does as well, and IMO is the better but more expensive mount

Posted: 4/22/2015 11:23:37 AM EDT

[#18]

the 1st pic is the Thorntail, the others are VLTOR offset w/ QD

Posted: 4/22/2015 2:09:05 PM EDT

[#19]

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Quoted:
the 1st pic is the Thorntail, the others are VLTOR offset w/ QD

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Vltor is my primary choice, but I will check out the Thorntail as well. Thanks!

Posted: 4/22/2015 2:32:16 PM EDT

[#20]

anyone use one on a PAP M92? thinking about getting one or a MI quad rail for it

Posted: 4/22/2015 3:17:31 PM EDT

[#21]

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Quoted:

anyone use one on a PAP M92? thinking about getting one or a MI quad rail for it

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this one was cut down, but IIRC they make one now for the M92

Posted: 4/22/2015 7:20:41 PM EDT

[#22]

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Quoted:
anyone use one on a PAP M92? thinking about getting one or a MI quad rail for it

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The Manticore M92 set-up will also accommodate a red-dot, they have some optic-specific tops for it. Will be getting one soon and gonna give it a good test, will report results.

Posted: 4/22/2015 7:24:54 PM EDT

[#23]

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Quoted:

Not digging messing with the rear sight. Too many other options that keep your irons intact.

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The Attero mounts all have integral rear notches so you can still use irons.

Those other options are nice if you like your rifle to be even more abysmally front-heavy than it already is, or just want to go traditional with a nice clunky side-mount, or a dust cover rail that won't hold zero all the time.

Rear-sight replacement mounts, have waaaaay better balance and make the rifle a lot more fast-handling.

Posted: 4/22/2015 9:45:46 PM EDT

[#24]

Pffftttt . How does Mrs Drag deal with those weak arms man?

I keed, I keed. You are correct that it does add more weight, but it's not all that bad if you train with it a lot. Or just be weird like me and carry the Danny thing with you all over the house

Posted: 4/22/2015 9:51:02 PM EDT

[#25]

Nictra-how do you like that set up?

Dragynn-I'm anxiously awaiting your results

Posted: 4/22/2015 10:06:38 PM EDT

[#26]

I'm a huge fan of the ultimak. I fought it for years, but it's nice and compact compared to a whole rail system.

Posted: 4/22/2015 10:26:44 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:

The Attero mounts all have integral rear notches so you can still use irons.

Those other options are nice if you like your rifle to be even more abysmally front-heavy than it already is, or just want to go traditional with a nice clunky side-mount, or a dust cover rail that won't hold zero all the time.

Rear-sight replacement mounts, have waaaaay better balance and make the rifle a lot more fast-handling.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Not digging messing with the rear sight. Too many other options that keep your irons intact.

The Attero mounts all have integral rear notches so you can still use irons.

Those other options are nice if you like your rifle to be even more abysmally front-heavy than it already is, or just want to go traditional with a nice clunky side-mount, or a dust cover rail that won't hold zero all the time.

Rear-sight replacement mounts, have waaaaay better balance and make the rifle a lot more fast-handling.

Does the Attero mount sit as low as the Ultimak? I owned an Attero for a couple weeks but returned it because it seemed too flexible...seemed like it would break off if I dropped the rifle. I own an Ultimak now (after trying a TWS for a while)...I do appreciate your comment about it being front heavy, though. And the heat is also an issue. I have to run the Ultimak with a glove on my left hand in order not to get burned.

Posted: 4/22/2015 11:03:34 PM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:

Does the Attero mount sit as low as the Ultimak? I owned an Attero for a couple weeks but returned it because it seemed too flexible...seemed like it would break off if I dropped the rifle. I own an Ultimak now (after trying a TWS for a while)...I do appreciate your comment about it being front heavy, though. And the heat is also an issue. I have to run the Ultimak with a glove on my left hand in order not to get burned.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Not digging messing with the rear sight. Too many other options that keep your irons intact.

The Attero mounts all have integral rear notches so you can still use irons.

Those other options are nice if you like your rifle to be even more abysmally front-heavy than it already is, or just want to go traditional with a nice clunky side-mount, or a dust cover rail that won't hold zero all the time.

Rear-sight replacement mounts, have waaaaay better balance and make the rifle a lot more fast-handling.

Does the Attero mount sit as low as the Ultimak? I owned an Attero for a couple weeks but returned it because it seemed too flexible...seemed like it would break off if I dropped the rifle. I own an Ultimak now (after trying a TWS for a while)...I do appreciate your comment about it being front heavy, though. And the heat is also an issue. I have to run the Ultimak with a glove on my left hand in order not to get burned.

Good question. Can it co witness?

I just think there is lots of options for everyone. I have all except a rear sight mount. The RS mounts are awesome, and even the Arsenal Sm-13 is really nice. But to me it only makes sense on my left side folders, like my AMD and Sam7. I have a TWS top cover on my 106, and although there is a slight movement when you hold the optic and apply pressure to the rail, it must return instantly because I have a couple thousand rounds through and the thing is dead on every time from 25-200 yds( although not sure of performance on a 7.62 gun). And the Ultimak. The original optic mount for the AK, solid as a rock, co witnesses, but gets hot as hell. All work good for me. They just have to make sense on my guns. I wouldn't run an Ultimak on everything, but on the 107cr, its the best option i think

Posted: 4/23/2015 7:10:45 AM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:

The Attero mounts all have integral rear notches so you can still use irons.

Those other options are nice if you like your rifle to be even more abysmally front-heavy than it already is, or just want to go traditional with a nice clunky side-mount, or a dust cover rail that won't hold zero all the time.

Rear-sight replacement mounts, have waaaaay better balance and make the rifle a lot more fast-handling.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Not digging messing with the rear sight. Too many other options that keep your irons intact.

The Attero mounts all have integral rear notches so you can still use irons.

Those other options are nice if you like your rifle to be even more abysmally front-heavy than it already is, or just want to go traditional with a nice clunky side-mount, or a dust cover rail that won't hold zero all the time.

Rear-sight replacement mounts, have waaaaay better balance and make the rifle a lot more fast-handling.

I agree with this statement. I have a T1 on a TWS on my ak105 and the ultimak on my AK104. The 104 is noticeably "front heavier." I have an astigmatism, so the dot on the Ultimak is clearer to me, though.

Posted: 4/23/2015 1:09:28 PM EDT

[#30]

I like the ultimak's; they give enough rail to mount a red dot and a light on. If I was only looking to mount a red dot I would be tempted to try out a different solution such as the rear sight replacement mounts or a side rail mount.

Posted: 4/23/2015 2:13:23 PM EDT

[#31]

I've been on fence to get an Ultimak for myself. Which MOA would you recommend for micro red dot sight when installed in front of rear sight block? 2 or 4 MOA?

Posted: 4/23/2015 2:25:28 PM EDT

[#32]

I've been using 4 MOA dots with variable brightness and been fine.

Posted: 4/23/2015 3:36:44 PM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:

Does the Attero mount sit as low as the Ultimak? I owned an Attero for a couple weeks but returned it because it seemed too flexible...seemed like it would break off if I dropped the rifle. I own an Ultimak now (after trying a TWS for a while)...I do appreciate your comment about it being front heavy, though. And the heat is also an issue. I have to run the Ultimak with a glove on my left hand in order not to get burned.

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This and the other question the OP asked about co-witness are excellent questions. I don't own any of the optic-specific mounts, which all sit a fair bit lower than the generic picatinny rail mounts I use. The whole reason the optic-specific mounts sit lower is so that they will co-witness, but since I don't own one I don't know the extent of it, I imagine it's lower 1/3 co-witness. And I can't remember what it was on my Ultimak, maybe one of the other guys will chime in.

As to flexible, mine don't move, solid as a rock, and the wife's damn cat already knocked my SA-85 off the kitchen table one day and it landed right on my PA micro attached to the mount, I was a lot more worried about the micro than the mount, but to PA's credit it didn't break it, and was still on perfect zero on the next trip to the range. It's been to the range probably 25 times since I first installed it, never needed to re-zero.

In fact late last year I took a noob shooter who had only shot once before and had never fired a rifle at all, and after letting him get the feel for it on the bench for the first 50 rounds or so, he tried standing offhand at 100 yards on some steel targets (roughly 10 inches wide and maybe 20 long), and after a few rounds to get in the groove he was hitting them 9 out of 10 times consistently and quickly and even double-tapping them quite often.

It's pretty amazing how well red-dot sights improve a person's shooting, one of the best 3 or 4 shooting accessories ever invented IMO.

Posted: 4/23/2015 4:05:46 PM EDT

[#34]

Not mine, but here's a thread with more info and tons of good pics:

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186577

Posted: 4/23/2015 5:10:55 PM EDT

[#35]

Dave Fortier talked about this.

I'm done this with all 5 of my AK's, all Hungarian including one Milled ak-55. They all experienced increased accuracy.

It's something to do with the barrel harmonics and it stops the barrel whipping that AKs are traditionally known to do.