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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:14:03 PM EDT
So I have a Saiga in 5.45 with plum furniture that I have been debating on shortening up. I have had it for a few years now, did a full front and rear conversion using AK74 parts. I love the rifle... BUT, there's always a but... It's sort of long, not terribly so, but most of all, it is damn heavy (compared to my 7.62 AKs and AR15s. A lot of that weight is in the barrel and I have decided to take the plunge, and hack this thing down. I'm planning on still using the standard handguards and retainer, and front sight. I will probably turn down the gas block to even shorten it up some, and I will figure out the piston length (going to make a homemade piston) and the interface from the gas block to the newly-shortened gas tube.
Here is a photoshopped picture of what my end product will hopefully be like (original image stolen from Arsenal because I'm too lazy to take one of my own). 
Yes, I know this will be an SBR in that configuration. I will pin an extension on, until Iowa finally allows suppressors and/or SBRs (hopefully this year for suppressors!) My only concern is if I will have to tinker around a lot with the gas port size. Should I drill the new gas port the same diameter as the old one or perhaps the size for a krink? Will the AK gods frown upon me for cutting up a perfectly serviceable gas block? What say the hive? |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:21:17 PM EDT
[#1]
Use an fsb/gb combo.
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:26:32 PM EDT
[#2]
Xjedix made a shortened version similar to what you are proposing. See the link below. He might be able to help you.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_64/143390_AK_build_done_my_way__Micro_105_SBR.html |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:34:19 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Use an fsb/gb combo. I do not have one of those already in my posession, or free to acquire. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:46:14 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I do not have one of those already in my posession, or free to acquire. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Use an fsb/gb combo. I do not have one of those already in my posession, or free to acquire. Although after searching... I remember them being more expensive than they seem to be now... |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:52:01 PM EDT
[#5]
Looks like a cool gun and all, but I dont see why you dont just cut a CR or UR. Seems much easier and cheaper of an option. Not to mention you cant really enjoy the point of these rifle configs without it being SBR'd. Good luck though.
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Posted: 3/27/2015 1:00:41 AM EDT
[#6]
Are you going to permanently pin the AK-style brake muzzle device on your barrel? I would suggest against that because it's going to be a PITA to clean it up. Use other muzzle devices that are easier to clean up.
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Posted: 3/27/2015 1:18:09 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you going to permanently pin the AK-style brake muzzle device on your barrel? I would suggest against that because it's going to be a PITA to clean it up. Use other muzzle devices that are easier to clean up. Plan is to pin an extension. Suppressors will hopefully be legal here this year, so i might churn one out if that happens and pin it instead. Whichever route I go, it will be able to be cleaned qithout removal. SBRs should be legal here in a few years hopefully. |
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Posted: 3/27/2015 2:01:44 AM EDT
[#8]
agree with others - cut it to CR length using combo block, and forget the custom piston. you will be able to maintain the existing gas port. perm attach a CNC Warrior extended 4-pc flash hider, you will be able to remove the cone to clean inside and get to the crown.
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Posted: 3/27/2015 6:56:31 AM EDT
[#9]
I did a pistol build like that recently. I'll post a pic when I get home. Used a standard AK-74 size gas port (AK-Builder drill bit). Needed to weld up the original gas port hole, trimmed the gas tube down, and used a Yugo M85 gas piston from CNC Warrior.
ETA - Forgot I already had them in my Photobucket: 
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Posted: 3/27/2015 9:57:25 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I did a pistol build like that recently. I'll post a pic when I get home. Used a standard AK-74 size gas port (AK-Builder drill bit). Needed to weld up the original gas port hole, trimmed the gas tube down, and used a Yugo M85 gas piston from CNC Warrior. ETA - Forgot I already had them in my Photobucket: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/AEnemaBay/Avtomat%20Kalashnikova/Pistol%20Build/10967135_10153123959272265_1560241886_o_zpslovqqn3y.jpg http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/AEnemaBay/Avtomat%20Kalashnikova/Pistol%20Build/10983105_10153123959397265_1984275309_o_zpsdnmkzckf.jpg http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/AEnemaBay/Avtomat%20Kalashnikova/Pistol%20Build/10951049_10153123959567265_1279324356_o_zpskkf59bf3.jpg Whats the barrel length? |
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Posted: 3/27/2015 10:27:18 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I did a pistol build like that recently. I'll post a pic when I get home. Used a standard AK-74 size gas port (AK-Builder drill bit). Needed to weld up the original gas port hole, trimmed the gas tube down, and used a Yugo M85 gas piston from CNC Warrior. ETA - Forgot I already had them in my Photobucket: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/AEnemaBay/Avtomat%20Kalashnikova/Pistol%20Build/10967135_10153123959272265_1560241886_o_zpslovqqn3y.jpg http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/AEnemaBay/Avtomat%20Kalashnikova/Pistol%20Build/10983105_10153123959397265_1984275309_o_zpsdnmkzckf.jpg http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/AEnemaBay/Avtomat%20Kalashnikova/Pistol%20Build/10951049_10153123959567265_1279324356_o_zpskkf59bf3.jpg That would be bad ass with an underfolder. |
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Posted: 3/27/2015 5:57:27 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Use an fsb/gb combo. |
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Posted: 3/27/2015 10:08:07 PM EDT
[#13]
do it!!!! I like custom rifles and I think this would be cool. Especially as an SBR
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Posted: 3/27/2015 11:18:27 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
do it!!!! I like custom rifles and I think this would be cool. Especially as an SBR I think I'll dig in next week. The plan will be to use the existing FSB and GB, unless someone can point me to a combo unit for a reasonable price that is in stock somewhere. |
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Posted: 3/28/2015 12:45:25 AM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 3/28/2015 1:58:21 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryK-var has the complete CR style combo block for only $20 more, but you have to wait for them to get in stock. http://www.k-var.com/shop/AK-142B.html |
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Posted: 3/28/2015 6:54:10 PM EDT
[#17]
out of stock.
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Posted: 3/29/2015 6:59:06 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whats the barrel length? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I did a pistol build like that recently. I'll post a pic when I get home. Used a standard AK-74 size gas port (AK-Builder drill bit). Needed to weld up the original gas port hole, trimmed the gas tube down, and used a Yugo M85 gas piston from CNC Warrior. ETA - Forgot I already had them in my Photobucket: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/AEnemaBay/Avtomat%20Kalashnikova/Pistol%20Build/10967135_10153123959272265_1560241886_o_zpslovqqn3y.jpg http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/AEnemaBay/Avtomat%20Kalashnikova/Pistol%20Build/10983105_10153123959397265_1984275309_o_zpsdnmkzckf.jpg http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/AEnemaBay/Avtomat%20Kalashnikova/Pistol%20Build/10951049_10153123959567265_1279324356_o_zpskkf59bf3.jpg Whats the barrel length? Ditto. That is awesome. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 6:17:37 PM EDT
[#19]
Started the process. Figured I'd jump in both feet and if it's going to be custom, might as well go hog wild. So I have the gas tube shortened and flared back to size and put in some work on the gas block on the lathe to shorten it up even more. I shortened the front and rear of it and cut a new champfer into it for the piston head to be sure to align. Just have the piston and barrel/extension left.
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Posted: 4/24/2015 7:09:06 AM EDT
[#20]
nice!
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Posted: 4/24/2015 11:45:59 AM EDT
[#21]
Be sure to account for the throw on the lower hand guard retainer lever. You'll likely have to shorten it and/or taper it to clear the gas block. Looks good so far, looking forward to the finished product.
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Posted: 4/24/2015 2:00:04 PM EDT
[#22]
Thanks guys. I'm not super sure what I'll do about the "permanent" muzzle extension for the time being. It will be at least a few weeks before I have any real updates on this project most likely. I need to get a drill for the gas port (I'm just going to do the regular '74 size, and see how it functions. Under-gassed can be more easily fixed than over-gassed). I also need to figure up if there is an existing piston I can use or slightly modify... or if I will have to fabricate my own length piston. Either way, I want to have all things accounted for before I chop the barrel for legality's sake.
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Posted: 4/24/2015 2:03:54 PM EDT
[#23]
check the AMD gas piston. It's not that much shorter than a standard. In fact, If I remember, I will try to measure my AMD piston to the 74 when I get home.
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Posted: 4/24/2015 2:56:00 PM EDT
[#24]
Definitely start small on the port size and work your way up. I believe a full length 74 has a port size of .077, and the 5.45 krink is .070. Being in the same situation with my 10.5" build I started way small with a port size of .062. I was taking into account the possibly of a couple thou of runout but it ended up being dead on at .062. First time out it was way undergasses and ended up a single shot. I opened it up to .070 and it ran like a top after that.
As for piston I had Matt/ turbothis from gunsnorthwest.com cut me a custom length one to my specs. |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 3:53:26 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Definitely start small on the port size and work your way up. I believe a full length 74 has a port size of .077, and the 5.45 krink is .070. Being in the same situation with my 10.5" build I started way small with a port size of .062. I was taking into account the possibly of a couple thou of runout but it ended up being dead on at .062. First time out it was way undergasses and ended up a single shot. I opened it up to .070 and it ran like a top after that. As for piston I had Matt/ turbothis from gunsnorthwest.com cut me a custom length one to my specs. Excellent to know. I'll see if I have some 50,51, and 52 size drill bits and work my way up in size with those. |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 10:46:56 PM EDT
[#26]
Welded ak gas block
Thought this might be worth a look if you havent seen it. Also [URL=http://www.royaltigerimports.com/product-p/ak470032.htm[/URL] Not a big fan of the company, but maybe you could use one of these and weld the front portion of you current sight base to it. |
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Posted: 4/25/2015 11:25:40 PM EDT
[#27]
I want to stick with the current sight base without welding just for ease, plus, I want the bayonet lug. Pretty much I'm just making a short, barebones AK74.
I seem to, however, have misplaced my measurements I took before I started cutting on the gas block. I'm wondering if anyone would have the dimension X I have marked in this picture, or be able to measure theirs. Preferably from a Bulgarian AK74 gas block, but I'm sure most others are close enough to not matter. Thanks. 
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Posted: 4/28/2015 2:09:15 PM EDT
[#28]
Bump.
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Posted: 4/28/2015 10:55:38 PM EDT
[#29]
Showing approx. 36.4mm on Bulgarian AK-74 gas block here.
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Posted: 4/29/2015 12:41:54 AM EDT
[#30]
Excellent. Thank you much, sir.
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Posted: 5/5/2015 3:52:40 PM EDT
[#31]
Turned out the piston today. I need to wait for my die to come in to thread it. Pic shows the custom length.
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Posted: 5/6/2015 8:59:04 AM EDT
[#32]
Nice work so far!
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Posted: 5/6/2015 12:28:52 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nice work so far! |
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Posted: 6/20/2015 6:42:11 PM EDT
[#34]
Alright guys. So turning the barrel down to diameter has taken a fun turn. It seems the barrel was originally.. slightly egg shaped. All weirdness from that aside, the barrel is turned to correct diameters all the way down and ready to be cut off as soon as my extension is ready. It might be a few weeks or so before I have new updates from that, as I have been busy getting ready to move. I just wanted to post an update here before this thread gets too lost for me to find again.
I do have an odd question I have been trying to find an answer to though. Since I am keeping my bayonet lugs, what is the legality of permanently attaching a bayonet to a barrel to achieve 16" of barrel? Is it legally any different than some of the spiked muzzle brakes? 
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