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Posted: 1/24/2015 2:03:28 PM EDT
[#1]
Meh.
Every time I see something like this or the CMMG Hybrid I ask, "What does it do better than an AK?" More ergonomic and modular.....thats about it AK works fine and Is completely usable as is Proprietary parts will keep most away |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 2:31:08 PM EDT
[#2]
AK works fine and Is completely usable as is That's true of vast majority of firearms. Proprietary parts will keep most away Which part do you anticipate needing to replace on regular or semi-regular basis? |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 2:40:38 PM EDT
[#3]
I think it's one of the most interesting rifles shown at Shot. Looks like they're aiming for SIG's market share, which shouldn't be difficult if the M10X is reliable.
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Posted: 1/24/2015 4:25:33 PM EDT
[#4]
I am more interested in that modular flash suppressor/muzzle brake by Krebs.
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Posted: 1/24/2015 5:31:52 PM EDT
[#5]
I think it's a very interesting design, definitely want to see some more of it and look forward to seeing testing.
Lot of innovation showing this year in the AK products world, really good to see. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 5:51:46 PM EDT
[#6]
Wish the stock adapter was redesigned but overall I like it. Want to see the BCG and how it locks up too.
Hope this one shakes out well. Can catch a closer look at 13:48 here. http://youtu.be/cqucfs0wqHs?t=1s |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 6:39:22 PM EDT
[#7]
IS there a better pic anywhere? I saw it on thefirearmsblog.com but no good pic.
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Posted: 1/24/2015 6:51:47 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 1/24/2015 7:42:57 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 1/24/2015 7:49:16 PM EDT
[#10]
I don't care how nice it is.
AR stocks on rifles that don't need buffer tubes turn me off. I bet it would look slick with that new magpul AK folder though. |
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Posted: 1/24/2015 7:50:49 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 1/24/2015 10:12:49 PM EDT
[#12]
Very interesting. Looking forward to more info about the M10X.
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Posted: 1/25/2015 12:47:23 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't care how nice it is. AR stocks on rifles that don't need buffer tubes turn me off. I'll second that. It is just so odd to include something built for a purpose when the purpose isn't there. It isn't native so I somehow doubt it is the best solution....it is an easy and familiar solution though which is why people do it I guess. |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 1:06:33 PM EDT
[#14]
With all these new AK's coming out, my major wish is they still look like AK's, & not AR's. GARY
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Posted: 1/25/2015 1:25:35 PM EDT
[#15]
These new guns solve the only issue I have with the AK platform (and I have 5 currently) which is the safety. My VZ-58 solves that kind of....
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Posted: 1/25/2015 2:18:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Sig already makes that rifle with a less awkward looking stock.
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Posted: 1/26/2015 1:02:08 AM EDT
[#17]
Yea,, but Sigs have a bad rep on their russian model... maybe m10x will fix that.. the stock would look good if it was a new Magpul folder
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Posted: 1/26/2015 2:15:26 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yea,, but Sigs have a bad rep on their russian model... maybe m10x will fix that.. the stock would look good if it was a new Magpul folder They won't be fixing any bad rep at a $900-$1,200 price-point. The only appeal American AK's can have in the short-term would be: A) Price B) Availability. Given that we're not in a panic, availability isn't really an issue. Given that these are new products, I can't imagine the manufacturers want to see them selling for $450. I have no doubt that American manufactured AK's will make progress within the market, but they're just not there yet.. for me, at least. There's nothing particularly unique, or compelling, that makes them interesting. Hell, even the "Buy Amurrrrican" marketing strategy fails here, because this is still a communist based weapon platform. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 4:28:21 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yea,, but Sigs have a bad rep on their russian model... maybe m10x will fix that.. the stock would look good if it was a new Magpul folder I know the xi has issues but my 556R gen 2 runs great. Still, the M10X is a very compelling design. Can't wait for some reviews. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 5:06:56 AM EDT
[#20]
Just saw the Shotshow video and it's very impressive. It looks like a natural progression in technology that Ole' Man Kalashnikov would clearly approve off.
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Posted: 1/26/2015 10:32:13 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think it's a very interesting design, definitely want to see some more of it and look forward to seeing testing. Lot of innovation showing this year in the AK products world, really good to see. I like it from what I have seen. I think it's aesthetically more pleasing then CMMGs offering
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Posted: 1/27/2015 10:39:47 AM EDT
[#22]
Appears to be long stroke.
http://www.outdoorhub.com/news/2015/01/26/mm-inc-rethinks-kalashnikov-m10x/ |
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Posted: 1/27/2015 1:49:05 PM EDT
[#23]
It is in concept a hybrid of an AK and a SIG 556R, taking the best features of both. (yes, it is a long stroke piston system). that being said, I think the final product is better than the sum of the total parts of the concept.
I handled it and spent quite a bit of time talking to them about it- at $900 MSRP I honestly believe this was one of the best kept secrets of SHOT. M+M came up with something new that solves a lot of problems (AK's and monolithic top rails, safety issues, adjustable gas system for use with suppressor) and does so at a price point that is realistic to what the market value is. I agree they need to make the stock fold, but other than that I think everything is pretty spot on. I took quite a few pics, and will see about getting some of them posted up here in the next few days. Sven Manticore Arms |
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Posted: 1/27/2015 2:48:10 PM EDT
[#24]
I would be up for this AK.
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Posted: 1/27/2015 3:11:59 PM EDT
[#25]
I'm gonna keep my eye on this one. Much more appealing to me than the Sig or MK47.
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Posted: 1/27/2015 3:22:00 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is in concept a hybrid of an AK and a SIG 556R, taking the best features of both. (yes, it is a long stroke piston system). that being said, I think the final product is better than the sum of the total parts of the concept. I handled it and spent quite a bit of time talking to them about it- at $900 MSRP I honestly believe this was one of the best kept secrets of SHOT. M+M came up with something new that solves a lot of problems (AK's and monolithic top rails, safety issues, adjustable gas system for use with suppressor) and does so at a price point that is realistic to what the market value is. I agree they need to make the stock fold, but other than that I think everything is pretty spot on. I took quite a few pics, and will see about getting some of them posted up here in the next few days. Sven Manticore Arms I thought it was just me but hearing you say this is just giggity. Don't understand how this flew so far beneath everyone's radar. More pics when your guys have time would be great. |
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Posted: 1/27/2015 3:36:07 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll second that. It is just so odd to include something built for a purpose when the purpose isn't there. It isn't native so I somehow doubt it is the best solution....it is an easy and familiar solution though which is why people do it I guess. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't care how nice it is. AR stocks on rifles that don't need buffer tubes turn me off. I'll second that. It is just so odd to include something built for a purpose when the purpose isn't there. It isn't native so I somehow doubt it is the best solution....it is an easy and familiar solution though which is why people do it I guess. The reason AR stock adapters are used on so many guns is that it's perfectly functional even if it's less organic to the aesthetics. Developing a new stock costs a lot of money and time and doesn't really add much over a MOE and a folding adapter, while not having any market outside the rifles you build. Making a new rifle and getting the price-point <$1K while staying profitable becomes much more difficult when you're designing and buying molds to make a proprietary stock when you can just slap an AR stock adapter on it and order a bunch of cheap MOE stocks. |
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Posted: 1/27/2015 6:08:18 PM EDT
[#28]
M+M should put a Zhukov S on there, and I'd buy that
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Posted: 1/27/2015 6:47:20 PM EDT
[#29]
It's like they can read my mind. After shooting multiple rifles over the last couple of years this has almost everything I want in a rifle:
Ambi reciprocating charging handle monolithic top rail for optics and flip up sights adjustable gas piston for switching between suppressed and unsuppressed takes AK mags and shoots 7.62x39 Sigs reputation has been spotty with their 556R and XI. They dropped the ball with that stock. It is WAAAY too long. Here's hoping I can put on a LWRC compact stock on it. |
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Posted: 1/27/2015 7:37:51 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree they need to make the stock fold, but other than that I think everything is pretty spot on. Well, I mean, that's where y'all come in, right?
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Posted: 1/27/2015 7:57:38 PM EDT
[#31]
The more I check this rifle out, the more I like it, this may be the rifle of the year to come out of SHOT, somebody FINALLY got a hybrid right...almost....that stock set-up just destroys an otherwise great looking rifle, I would replace that with a good fixed stock if the rifle will accept any kind of standard stock (does anyone know if it will?), slap that new Magpul fixed triangle stock on there and I think you have a winner if she shoots as good as she looks.
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Posted: 1/27/2015 8:14:33 PM EDT
[#32]
MAN. That's kind of a bummer.
I was sort of set on getting a MK.47, but if the M&M rifle turns out nice too I might get that instead, being something like $500 cheaper. I'm not really interested in the version with the M-Lok rails, though. Def. going to wait and see what the reviews say about the base model before I decide, though. |
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Posted: 1/27/2015 8:33:01 PM EDT
[#33]
I have never heard of M+M until the recent SHOT reports. Anyone know anything about them.
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Posted: 1/27/2015 8:40:09 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have never heard of M+M until the recent SHOT reports. Anyone know anything about them. They've been importing Cugir rifles for a few years, the M10 which is an excellent little Romy AK with an integrated front sight/gas block, was a good buy at 500 bucks. |
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Posted: 1/27/2015 8:49:16 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
I have never heard of M+M until the recent SHOT reports. Anyone know anything about them. The did a good job with their M10-7.62 the last couple years. Basically a new Romy with a combo GB + 922r. Not a lot of complaints either. In fact many found them to be very reliable. I'm guessing they took some of those 2013 panic profits and re-invested it in R&D. ETA - Started typing got distracted, finished after Dragynn posted. What he said. |
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Posted: 1/27/2015 8:54:10 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The reason AR stock adapters are used on so many guns is that it's perfectly functional even if it's less organic to the aesthetics. Developing a new stock costs a lot of money and time and doesn't really add much over a MOE and a folding adapter, while not having any market outside the rifles you build. Making a new rifle and getting the price-point <$1K while staying profitable becomes much more difficult when you're designing and buying molds to make a proprietary stock when you can just slap an AR stock adapter on it and order a bunch of cheap MOE stocks. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't care how nice it is. AR stocks on rifles that don't need buffer tubes turn me off. I'll second that. It is just so odd to include something built for a purpose when the purpose isn't there. It isn't native so I somehow doubt it is the best solution....it is an easy and familiar solution though which is why people do it I guess. The reason AR stock adapters are used on so many guns is that it's perfectly functional even if it's less organic to the aesthetics. Developing a new stock costs a lot of money and time and doesn't really add much over a MOE and a folding adapter, while not having any market outside the rifles you build. Making a new rifle and getting the price-point <$1K while staying profitable becomes much more difficult when you're designing and buying molds to make a proprietary stock when you can just slap an AR stock adapter on it and order a bunch of cheap MOE stocks. Functional does not mean good or even appropriate. The cost of molds is minimal relative to other tooling costs. They are already not making the stock in house so an appropriate one would not be made in house either. |
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Posted: 1/27/2015 9:30:09 PM EDT
[#37]
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Posted: 1/27/2015 9:33:12 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryI will NOT be mocked! Explain yourself! 
Side note: Can't wait for the reviews to come in. 
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Posted: 1/28/2015 10:08:00 PM EDT
[#39]
Now maybe some other guys that have M+M products besides me will throw some opinions in on this.
The stock on the standard model, made by Phoenix Technologies is absolutely garbage. There's a spring in it that "absorbs" recoil when you shoot, but it also causes the rifle to bounce around and doesn't allow fast follow up shots. The flash hider that they're using works well as a flash hider, except it rings ENDLESSLY if you shoot, run the action, or even look at the rifle hard enough (kidding). If the flash and bang didn't give you away, people 3 counties over will be able to find you from the ringing flash hider. The fit and finish of the rifles they already modify (from the same factory as WASRs, Cugir in Romania) is pretty awful. They don't believe in loctite, canted everything, screws not tight to begin with. Lot of reports of the bolt mushrooming as well. I'm not holding my breath on this rifle unless some changes are made to the furniture, and somebody really gets a look at the innards. M+M hasn't impressed me with the products they currently offer and as far as I'm concerned, they pulled this rifle out of nowhere to get some attention to their company, as nearly nobody has heard of them until now. |
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Posted: 1/28/2015 10:20:01 PM EDT
[#40]
BCG described here.
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2417867&postcount=139 Couple partial shots of the carrier and BCG rail. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=15709960&postcount=9 Seems to resemble an AK BCG, with mods of course (so far, no recoil spring, has piston return spring, AR ejector and what sounds like a detachable piston). |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 9:41:25 PM EDT
[#41]
There's a (grainy phone) pic of the complete gas system now. Have to login to see it though. It's Sig's. There might be some slight mods to it but the superficial appearance is almost identical. If the piston cylinder is similar material to Sig's, might be front heavy. Just a guess, my $.02.
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2419635&postcount=142 |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 11:22:54 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now maybe some other guys that have M+M products besides me will throw some opinions in on this. The stock on the standard model, made by Phoenix Technologies is absolutely garbage. There's a spring in it that "absorbs" recoil when you shoot, but it also causes the rifle to bounce around and doesn't allow fast follow up shots. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now maybe some other guys that have M+M products besides me will throw some opinions in on this. The stock on the standard model, made by Phoenix Technologies is absolutely garbage. There's a spring in it that "absorbs" recoil when you shoot, but it also causes the rifle to bounce around and doesn't allow fast follow up shots. That's the "Kickite" stock. It was an option for the rifle, but only one of at least three stocks M+M offered. The flash hider that they're using works well as a flash hider, except it rings ENDLESSLY if you shoot, run the action, or even look at the rifle hard enough (kidding). If the flash and bang didn't give you away, people 3 counties over will be able to find you from the ringing flash hider. True enough, but that's the curse of virtually all pronged flash hiders, which unfortunately are typically among the best flash hiders. The fit and finish of the rifles they already modify (from the same factory as WASRs, Cugir in Romania) is pretty awful. They don't believe in loctite, canted everything, screws not tight to begin with. Sorry to hear that. My M10 is quite the opposite. It, of course, has the typical less-than-stellar Romy parkerized finish, but the fitment is great. Everything is straight, even, and tight as a drum. Nothing loose or rattley. Mine has the fixed Phoenix "storage" stock, not the Kicklite, and the Houge handguards. I love it! |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 10:26:14 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's the "Kickite" stock. It was an option for the rifle, but only one of at least three stocks M+M offered. True enough, but that's the curse of virtually all pronged flash hiders, which unfortunately are typically among the best flash hiders. Sorry to hear that. My M10 is quite the opposite. It, of course, has the typical less-than-stellar Romy parkerized finish, but the fitment is great. Everything is straight, even, and tight as a drum. Nothing loose or rattley. Mine has the fixed Phoenix "storage" stock, not the Kicklite, and the Houge handguards. I love it! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Now maybe some other guys that have M+M products besides me will throw some opinions in on this. The stock on the standard model, made by Phoenix Technologies is absolutely garbage. There's a spring in it that "absorbs" recoil when you shoot, but it also causes the rifle to bounce around and doesn't allow fast follow up shots. That's the "Kickite" stock. It was an option for the rifle, but only one of at least three stocks M+M offered. The flash hider that they're using works well as a flash hider, except it rings ENDLESSLY if you shoot, run the action, or even look at the rifle hard enough (kidding). If the flash and bang didn't give you away, people 3 counties over will be able to find you from the ringing flash hider. True enough, but that's the curse of virtually all pronged flash hiders, which unfortunately are typically among the best flash hiders. The fit and finish of the rifles they already modify (from the same factory as WASRs, Cugir in Romania) is pretty awful. They don't believe in loctite, canted everything, screws not tight to begin with. Sorry to hear that. My M10 is quite the opposite. It, of course, has the typical less-than-stellar Romy parkerized finish, but the fitment is great. Everything is straight, even, and tight as a drum. Nothing loose or rattley. Mine has the fixed Phoenix "storage" stock, not the Kicklite, and the Houge handguards. I love it! |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 4:11:24 PM EDT
[#44]
Slightly more extensive vid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uXrLxWNO3Q Couple more internals pics. 
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Posted: 1/31/2015 8:43:32 PM EDT
[#45]
This was looking good, right up until they got to the stock, and the designer said 'fuck it'.
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Posted: 2/2/2015 11:10:45 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This was looking good, right up until they got to the stock, and the designer said 'fuck it'. If the stock is this weapon's only failing, it will definitely have a place reserved for it in my safe. If this turns out to be a dependable weapon ... my Galil wants will be sated. |
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Posted: 2/2/2015 11:18:46 AM EDT
[#47]
lol that guy sounds straight out of deep Canada. |
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Posted: 2/2/2015 1:44:18 PM EDT
[#48]
I want one
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Posted: 2/2/2015 7:35:57 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryWait, did he say the barrel screws in? Like old milled guns? |
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Posted: 2/2/2015 9:20:59 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now maybe some other guys that have M+M products besides me will throw some opinions in on this. The stock on the standard model, made by Phoenix Technologies is absolutely garbage. There's a spring in it that "absorbs" recoil when you shoot, but it also causes the rifle to bounce around and doesn't allow fast follow up shots. The flash hider that they're using works well as a flash hider, except it rings ENDLESSLY if you shoot, run the action, or even look at the rifle hard enough (kidding). If the flash and bang didn't give you away, people 3 counties over will be able to find you from the ringing flash hider. The fit and finish of the rifles they already modify (from the same factory as WASRs, Cugir in Romania) is pretty awful. They don't believe in loctite, canted everything, screws not tight to begin with. Lot of reports of the bolt mushrooming as well. I'm not holding my breath on this rifle unless some changes are made to the furniture, and somebody really gets a look at the innards. M+M hasn't impressed me with the products they currently offer and as far as I'm concerned, they pulled this rifle out of nowhere to get some attention to their company, as nearly nobody has heard of them until now. FYI, this is an original product they are making in the U.S. M+M didn't control the fit and finish or the heat treat of the AK's they used to bring in from overseas- those sins lay in the hands of the Romanian factory that made them. Yeah, the flash hider and stock are cheesy, but easy to change out for minimal cost. An M4 stock and flash hider for less than $50 together and you are golden. I did mention to them they might want to go with better grade furniture and flash hiders. 
To be honest, the gun is really more a well refined SIG 556R than an AK (which I guess we could get into a discussion on how the SIG 556 design was conceptually a highly modified and refined AK) with the biggest difference being how they approached the design of the lower receiver, mostly in shape and the way it takes an AR pistol grip and stock. For what it is worth I looked at the gun up close and was pretty impressed by the fit and finish, and overall design- it takes a lot of impress me on a new product (I design and make them for a living after all) and this was the only one at the show that looked like a good, new, innovative product that actually was priced at a reasonable level for the current market. I went back to the booth a second time just to look at it again as it was hard to absorb all of what they had done in just a few minutes. The only thing I would change on the design that would take a little work on redesign is to make that stock a folder- there is just not reason it shouldn't be able to fold. Proof is in the pudding when independent testers run it through its paces, but so far I am at least personally cautiously optimistic. Sven Manticore Arms |
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