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Posted: 1/23/2015 3:26:30 AM EDT
[#1]
Mildly stupid question here, but will the new handguards fit Yugo AKs?
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Posted: 1/23/2015 9:04:32 PM EDT
[#2]
Yugo-specific furniture is coming soon, per their FB page.
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Posted: 1/24/2015 10:15:18 AM EDT
[#3]
FWIW...
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Posted: 1/24/2015 12:01:13 PM EDT
[#4]
When are thes mags coming out.
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Posted: 1/24/2015 12:22:17 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When are thes mags coming out. @April 2015 |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 3:16:58 PM EDT
[#7]
I am actually impressed with the folding stock and hand guards. I love that they ditched buffer type solutions and designed something that flows with the AK's innate aesthetics. Good job.
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Posted: 1/25/2015 3:25:41 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've seen and heard the doubt about reinforced vs unreinforced feed lips, and I don't want there to be any misconception that we're trying to half measure the reinforced magazine. Believe me, we've tested this. We'll have more videos and such on the way for the Gen M3, but here are two that illustrate what I'm talking about. This is a Bulgy circle 10 on the left, which is, as I've said, a very good mag. Anti-tilt follower, steel on the lock ups, good geometry, etc. on the right is the PMAG AK MOE unreinforced magazine. Both mags are fully loaded with Wolf ammo. The MOE mag was dropped twice from six feet onto concrete to get the crack you see in the photo, only slightly visible from the rear where it's at, and only really noticeable when you pull it apart. Mag holds rounds and feeds 100% like this. The circle 10 mag on the left was dropped once from six feet. The left feed lip is bent to the point that it will not allow a round to be fully inserted to the rear on that side. This mag causes a stoppage every other round...the right side still feeds, the left, not so much. This is pretty consistently what you see. http://<a href=http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y366/spqr476/Mobile%20Uploads/image1-28.jpg</a>" /> http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y366/spqr476/Mobile%20Uploads/image2-12.jpg |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 3:30:26 PM EDT
[#9]
Also, do the Magpul mags use the same internal geometry as comblock mags?
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Posted: 1/25/2015 3:48:49 PM EDT
[#10]
...
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Posted: 1/25/2015 4:20:54 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you put the circle ten in a vise and bend it back. How does one restore the structural integrity of a magazine that lacks reinforcement? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've seen and heard the doubt about reinforced vs unreinforced feed lips, and I don't want there to be any misconception that we're trying to half measure the reinforced magazine. Believe me, we've tested this. We'll have more videos and such on the way for the Gen M3, but here are two that illustrate what I'm talking about. This is a Bulgy circle 10 on the left, which is, as I've said, a very good mag. Anti-tilt follower, steel on the lock ups, good geometry, etc. on the right is the PMAG AK MOE unreinforced magazine. Both mags are fully loaded with Wolf ammo. The MOE mag was dropped twice from six feet onto concrete to get the crack you see in the photo, only slightly visible from the rear where it's at, and only really noticeable when you pull it apart. Mag holds rounds and feeds 100% like this. The circle 10 mag on the left was dropped once from six feet. The left feed lip is bent to the point that it will not allow a round to be fully inserted to the rear on that side. This mag causes a stoppage every other round...the right side still feeds, the left, not so much. This is pretty consistently what you Except you're not restoring the structural integrity, nor the original geometry with any degree of accuracy. The reinforcement will likely delaminate to a greater or lesser degree, and the "fixed" feed lip will never feed anywhere near as reliably as before the deformation because you'll never get it "right" bending it back. Both magazines in the photo will need to be replaced, but the MOE mag will keep on feeding and working 100% fine until you get a chance to swap it out. The metal lined lip will never work the same again, even if you do try to bend it back. |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 4:33:52 PM EDT
[#12]
"Also, do the Magpul mags use the same internal geometry as comblock mags?" (Sorry-hit reply instead of quote) The curve is the same, as pretty much all the com bloc mags are already optimized for the taper of the round and the resulting round stack. Other than that, the geometry is a result of getting round stack, follower, and feeding rounds during stripping and chamber entry to do exactly what they need to do while making sure the resulting forces on the bolt carrier are what they are supposed to be during cycling, etc., etc., science and stuff. There is a bit of variety in com bloc mags, and we did indeed baseline a bunch of them and determine which characteristics correlated with more reliable feeding, etc, before designing our mags. |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 6:06:51 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The metal lined lip will never work the same again, even if you do try to bend it back. That's 100% wrong, it's a very mild bend and will straighten out fine, not gonna be perfect to the nth degree, but I guarantee you it will work and function properly. Not only have I done this very thing, but have extensive experience over the years with similar situations involving a plastic item re-inforced with mild steel, and have ALWAYS been able to bend them back and make work. |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 6:09:55 PM EDT
[#14]
How long is the extended handguard?
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Posted: 1/25/2015 9:09:58 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's 100% wrong, it's a very mild bend and will straighten out fine, not gonna be perfect to the nth degree, but I guarantee you it will work and function properly. Not only have I done this very thing, but have extensive experience over the years with similar situations involving a plastic item re-inforced with mild steel, and have ALWAYS been able to bend them back and make work. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The metal lined lip will never work the same again, even if you do try to bend it back. That's 100% wrong, it's a very mild bend and will straighten out fine, not gonna be perfect to the nth degree, but I guarantee you it will work and function properly. Not only have I done this very thing, but have extensive experience over the years with similar situations involving a plastic item re-inforced with mild steel, and have ALWAYS been able to bend them back and make work. If it hasn't delaminated and caused an edge of the insert to sit proud, and the polymer itself doesn't crack, then it will look fairly straight, and indeed, "work". Your stoppage rate on that magazine will be higher than a magazine with 100% factory correct geometry in about 99.999% of the time. AKs are fairly forgiving, but you'll still have a lower MRBF. Maybe it's just slight, and maybe if you got it perfect, you'll never notice, but in reality, that mag belongs in the training pile, just like a cracked lip poly. And yes, I've done it, too. I'll likely bend this one back and see what I've got. But, it will never make it back out of the "dry practice" pile. Don't believe me? Test it with a few thousand rounds and a few perfect mags against ones that have been bent back after damage. The kicker, though, is that unless you've really done a deliberate job of splitting it, the cracked lip poly will very likely still run fine until you get back home, no bending required, and then you can send it back to us for a new one. The bent steel lip stops working immediately until you can bend it back, if the damage is such you can do so. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 1:08:08 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it hasn't delaminated and caused an edge of the insert to sit proud, and the polymer itself doesn't crack, then it will look fairly straight, and indeed, "work". Your stoppage rate on that magazine will be higher than a magazine with 100% factory correct geometry in about 99.999% of the time. AKs are fairly forgiving, but you'll still have a lower MRBF. Maybe it's just slight, and maybe if you got it perfect, you'll never notice, but in reality, that mag belongs in the training pile, just like a cracked lip poly. And yes, I've done it, too. I'll likely bend this one back and see what I've got. But, it will never make it back out of the "dry practice" pile. Don't believe me? Test it with a few thousand rounds and a few perfect mags against ones that have been bent back after damage. The kicker, though, is that unless you've really done a deliberate job of splitting it, the cracked lip poly will very likely still run fine until you get back home, no bending required, and then you can send it back to us for a new one. The bent steel lip stops working immediately until you can bend it back, if the damage is such you can do so. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The metal lined lip will never work the same again, even if you do try to bend it back. That's 100% wrong, it's a very mild bend and will straighten out fine, not gonna be perfect to the nth degree, but I guarantee you it will work and function properly. Not only have I done this very thing, but have extensive experience over the years with similar situations involving a plastic item re-inforced with mild steel, and have ALWAYS been able to bend them back and make work. If it hasn't delaminated and caused an edge of the insert to sit proud, and the polymer itself doesn't crack, then it will look fairly straight, and indeed, "work". Your stoppage rate on that magazine will be higher than a magazine with 100% factory correct geometry in about 99.999% of the time. AKs are fairly forgiving, but you'll still have a lower MRBF. Maybe it's just slight, and maybe if you got it perfect, you'll never notice, but in reality, that mag belongs in the training pile, just like a cracked lip poly. And yes, I've done it, too. I'll likely bend this one back and see what I've got. But, it will never make it back out of the "dry practice" pile. Don't believe me? Test it with a few thousand rounds and a few perfect mags against ones that have been bent back after damage. The kicker, though, is that unless you've really done a deliberate job of splitting it, the cracked lip poly will very likely still run fine until you get back home, no bending required, and then you can send it back to us for a new one. The bent steel lip stops working immediately until you can bend it back, if the damage is such you can do so. I have a suggestion that is just, well, a suggestion that could be a a simple fix for the people whom are weary that could possibly work out for everyone. (Please shed some light on why this IS or IS NOT possible if you can upon reading below.) Would it be possible for you guys to add a VERY THIN piece of steel (sheet metal, aluminum, or just something that's rugged, silver, and shiny) in the feedlip area to aid in the rounds feeding smoother (resulting in less wear on the polymer edges over time), yet not thick enough to where it interferes with the preferred thickness of the Polymer feedlips that you guys have in mind. I'm taking only 1/4th or so of a "Millimeter" worth of reinforcement?? That way the people complaining can have some type of reassurance, even if the thin steel isn't "technically" meant for reinforcement purposes but would indeed aid in feeding, for example, like the "Lancer mags" have in the AR division. Although, I feel like your company is likely taking an innovative step to prove that "New Age Polymers" DO NOT need Steel lining in the Feedlips (even if it may result in a small-moderate decline in sales.) Although, It's become apparent that you guys have tried the Full-On "Steel Feed Lip" Route and are not being (for lack of a better term) "Bullied", into making a design that may please many people cosmetically, but simply would be an inferior product (Am I getting Warm here?) If that is the case, I applaud you guys at Magpul for that!! It will just take some time for alot of folks to get on the Bandwagon. So there was an idea, and my overall view on things. Thanks for communicating with us on the current progress!! |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 1:12:27 AM EDT
[#17]
Agree! Thanks for telling us the info on these mags. Makes it a lot clearer on how you do your mags.
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Posted: 1/26/2015 7:16:29 PM EDT
[#18]
Any pics of the extended handguard on a rifle with a unitized front sight and gas block?
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Posted: 1/26/2015 8:53:56 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you can send it back to us for a new one. 
And that's excellent policy, and much appreciated. I do appreciate the innovation y'all do and I do own a bunch of Magpul products and will likely be trying out the new AK stock, but afraid I will have to agree to disagree on this subject, 27 bucks for a mag and at minimum (for an AK) it needs to have metal in ALL the important areas. But moot point really as i'm not a buyer at all for plastic AK mags, AR Pmags are fine and I have plenty of those, but AK mags need to stand a lot more abuse in my experience and I don't care what material it's made of, it just needs to NOT break when dropped. Any discussion of what mags will continue to work and whether you can repair them or not when they break when dropped, is not a discussion of serious gear for hard use IMO. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 9:13:48 PM EDT
[#20]
Sounds like someone needs to get into the market of polymer AK mags with steel reinforced lugs and feed lips...hmmm
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Posted: 1/26/2015 10:05:38 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like someone needs to get into the market of polymer AK mags with steel reinforced lugs and feed lips...hmmm Careful now, if you don't do everything the horde desires AND bring it in under $15, you too will suffer the wrath of the interwebs! |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 10:12:19 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Careful now, if you don't do everything the horde desires AND bring it in under $15, you too will suffer the wrath of the interwebs! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Sounds like someone needs to get into the market of polymer AK mags with steel reinforced lugs and feed lips...hmmm Careful now, if you don't do everything the horde desires AND bring it in under $15, you too will suffer the wrath of the interwebs! LOL, I am well aware that U.S. made steel reinforced mags should be under $20 MSRP to be market competitive. 
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Posted: 1/26/2015 10:18:41 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like someone needs to get into the market of polymer AK mags with steel reinforced lugs and feed lips...hmmm Maybe someone should actually produce the mags Toth Tool designed/copied fro the Bulgarians... Or even better, start making AK 100 series mag clones :D |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 11:17:01 PM EDT
[#24]
What happened to the Toth Tool AK mags? Just one batch and that was it?
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Posted: 1/26/2015 11:24:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What happened to the Toth Tool AK mags? Just one batch and that was it? From the AK Mag forum; |
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Posted: 1/27/2015 12:04:16 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like someone needs to get into the market of polymer AK mags with steel reinforced lugs and feed lips...hmmm Come on, you know you want to.  
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Posted: 1/27/2015 12:18:32 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it hasn't delaminated and caused an edge of the insert to sit proud, and the polymer itself doesn't crack, then it will look fairly straight, and indeed, "work". Your stoppage rate on that magazine will be higher than a magazine with 100% factory correct geometry in about 99.999% of the time. AKs are fairly forgiving, but you'll still have a lower MRBF. Maybe it's just slight, and maybe if you got it perfect, you'll never notice, but in reality, that mag belongs in the training pile, just like a cracked lip poly. And yes, I've done it, too. I'll likely bend this one back and see what I've got. But, it will never make it back out of the "dry practice" pile. Don't believe me? Test it with a few thousand rounds and a few perfect mags against ones that have been bent back after damage. The kicker, though, is that unless you've really done a deliberate job of splitting it, the cracked lip poly will very likely still run fine until you get back home, no bending required, and then you can send it back to us for a new one. The bent steel lip stops working immediately until you can bend it back, if the damage is such you can do so. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The metal lined lip will never work the same again, even if you do try to bend it back. That's 100% wrong, it's a very mild bend and will straighten out fine, not gonna be perfect to the nth degree, but I guarantee you it will work and function properly. Not only have I done this very thing, but have extensive experience over the years with similar situations involving a plastic item re-inforced with mild steel, and have ALWAYS been able to bend them back and make work. If it hasn't delaminated and caused an edge of the insert to sit proud, and the polymer itself doesn't crack, then it will look fairly straight, and indeed, "work". Your stoppage rate on that magazine will be higher than a magazine with 100% factory correct geometry in about 99.999% of the time. AKs are fairly forgiving, but you'll still have a lower MRBF. Maybe it's just slight, and maybe if you got it perfect, you'll never notice, but in reality, that mag belongs in the training pile, just like a cracked lip poly. And yes, I've done it, too. I'll likely bend this one back and see what I've got. But, it will never make it back out of the "dry practice" pile. Don't believe me? Test it with a few thousand rounds and a few perfect mags against ones that have been bent back after damage. The kicker, though, is that unless you've really done a deliberate job of splitting it, the cracked lip poly will very likely still run fine until you get back home, no bending required, and then you can send it back to us for a new one. The bent steel lip stops working immediately until you can bend it back, if the damage is such you can do so. While I have no doubt you'll sell a lot of these mags, it's gonna be a hard sell to the stubborn folks who pretty much just want a Bulgarian mag clone. You could build a mag stronger and more reliable than a Circle 10 for less than $20, and they'll still claim they can get surplus steel for less so why bother? Then they wonder why few quality manufacturers get on the AK side of the aftermarket, after they've run off anyone who has made and attempt because their products cost too much or didn't do anything better than a stock WASR 10 and surplus parts. |
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Posted: 1/27/2015 1:07:54 AM EDT
[#28]
...
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Posted: 1/27/2015 8:14:05 AM EDT
[#29]
I'm going to go ahead and recommend at this point that everyone who wants Bulgarian magazines, should probably buy Bulgarian mags.
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Posted: 1/27/2015 10:10:20 AM EDT
[#30]
lol magpul still justifying their decision to not reinforce feed lips
fail |
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Posted: 1/27/2015 10:50:07 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm going to go ahead and recommend at this point that everyone who wants Bulgarian magazines, should probably buy Bulgarian mags. ...and for those folks there's an EXTREMELY high probability that they will drop in price after Magpul releases these. |
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Posted: 1/27/2015 12:18:11 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lol magpul still justifying their decision to not reinforce feed lips fail Quote HistoryQuoted:
lol magpul still justifying their decision to not reinforce feed lips fail Please see our Magpul Foundations page to understand better our design directions. Build what they need, not what they want.
As a rule, end users are generally not designers, and are therefore limited to describing their needs in terms they know and understand. Although end user feedback is invaluable to the design process, Magpul never builds a product on the basis of simple market surveys. Instead, we study the intended mission, determine the equipment capability gap, and develop a solution based on a clearly defined set of performance-based requirements. While the end result will almost certainly not be what the user had envisioned, it will more effectively address the needs and performance capabilities they are often unable to clearly articulate or recognize from a product development perspective. In short we have the capability to build the magazine with or without steel reinforced feed lips. We will build whichever one proves to us to be the most reliable and resilient in combat environments. End of story. |
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Posted: 1/27/2015 1:12:14 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol magpul still justifying their decision to not reinforce feed lips fail How much testing have you done? Please share
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Posted: 1/27/2015 7:05:37 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lol magpul still justifying their decision to not reinforce feed lips fail lol random internet guy still he thinks he knows more about material science and magazine production than magpul fail |
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Posted: 1/27/2015 9:17:25 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lol random internet guy still he thinks he knows more about material science and magazine production than magpul fail Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
lol magpul still justifying their decision to not reinforce feed lips fail lol random internet guy still he thinks he knows more about material science and magazine production than magpul fail All that "material science" and magazine production experience got us, was another plastic AK mag that breaks when you drop it and costs twice what other plastic AK mags that break when you drop them do. And standing by to produce another one, this time 4 times as expensive. whoopty-doo.
A little underwhelmed here by the science. And a little aghast at a company who thinks they know what I "need", I pay for what I want and i'll be the judge of whether I "need" it or not. |
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Posted: 1/27/2015 9:43:10 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
On the hand guard retainer removal for the Zhukov, leaving it on would be a compromise in the size, weight, and handling characteristics of the hand guard. We looked at other long handguard a that either leave it on or leave you the option, and the compromises made to accommodate this were never acceptable to us. If you ever decide to remove your Zhukov hand guard and go back to a retainer, there are bolt on solutions available that don't require pressing off your gas block to replace. However...the If you aren't comfortable taking off the retainer, the MOE hand guards work with it. You don't get the length of the Zhukov or the aluminum chassis, but you still get a longer HG, higher sides, and M-LOK. Really drawn to the Zhukov handguard but afraid to make a semi-permanent decision to remove the handguard retainer. I'll likely end up with at least a stock and the MOE handguard. Maybe if that works out well I'll have the guts to break out the dremel on the retainer... Already running the MOE pistol grip and it works great. Looking forward to the mags. Very happy you studied and tested the reinforced feedlips. If your testing showed the mag works well without it, I'm on board. Looking for the out on the market prices in the future. Any chance you have pictures of any furniture in plum? Also, any plans for plum mags? Spooky |
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Posted: 1/27/2015 10:34:08 PM EDT
[#37]
I'm not worried about the new mags. Every torture test I've seen has broken the rear tab on the old mag, which the new mags are addressing. I can't foresee any instance that I'd be standing over six feet above a concrete floor with a rifle, so I'm not worried about the feed lips either.
I do wish the mags had a standard follower though. Those PA bolt-hold-open followers are probably going to be installed in all of my mags. |
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Posted: 1/27/2015 11:50:53 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All that "material science" and magazine production experience got us, was another plastic AK mag that breaks when you drop it and costs twice what other plastic AK mags that break when you drop them do. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
lol magpul still justifying their decision to not reinforce feed lips fail lol random internet guy still he thinks he knows more about material science and magazine production than magpul fail All that "material science" and magazine production experience got us, was another plastic AK mag that breaks when you drop it and costs twice what other plastic AK mags that break when you drop them do. They explained why that was. In any case no one expected, nor did Magpul purport, that they'd be as durable as steel surplus. And standing by to produce another one, this time 4 times as expensive.
whoopty-doo.
A little underwhelmed here by the science. And a little aghast at a company who thinks they know what I "need", I pay for what I want and i'll be the judge of whether I "need" it or not. I get paid to explain to people the truth, which they often don't want to hear, so apologies if I'm not sympathetic to one's subjective belief that may not coincide with objective reality. I want a better magazine, not one that's tailored to your irrational "needs." Of course, until these see heavy use, you and I simply won't know whether Magpul succeeded or failed at their task. |
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Posted: 1/28/2015 12:35:42 AM EDT
[#39]
I go with Magpul in my AR's and will trust Magpul in my AK's. But, I'm only a retired 19D who has used both in real situations so what do I know?
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Posted: 1/28/2015 12:55:21 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Except you're not restoring the structural integrity, nor the original geometry with any degree of accuracy. The reinforcement will likely delaminate to a greater or lesser degree, and the "fixed" feed lip will never feed anywhere near as reliably as before the deformation because you'll never get it "right" bending it back. Both magazines in the photo will need to be replaced, but the MOE mag will keep on feeding and working 100% fine until you get a chance to swap it out. The metal lined lip will never work the same again, even if you do try to bend it back. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've seen and heard the doubt about reinforced vs unreinforced feed lips, and I don't want there to be any misconception that we're trying to half measure the reinforced magazine. Believe me, we've tested this. We'll have more videos and such on the way for the Gen M3, but here are two that illustrate what I'm talking about. This is a Bulgy circle 10 on the left, which is, as I've said, a very good mag. Anti-tilt follower, steel on the lock ups, good geometry, etc. on the right is the PMAG AK MOE unreinforced magazine. Both mags are fully loaded with Wolf ammo. The MOE mag was dropped twice from six feet onto concrete to get the crack you see in the photo, only slightly visible from the rear where it's at, and only really noticeable when you pull it apart. Mag holds rounds and feeds 100% like this. The circle 10 mag on the left was dropped once from six feet. The left feed lip is bent to the point that it will not allow a round to be fully inserted to the rear on that side. This mag causes a stoppage every other round...the right side still feeds, the left, not so much. This is pretty consistently what you Except you're not restoring the structural integrity, nor the original geometry with any degree of accuracy. The reinforcement will likely delaminate to a greater or lesser degree, and the "fixed" feed lip will never feed anywhere near as reliably as before the deformation because you'll never get it "right" bending it back. Both magazines in the photo will need to be replaced, but the MOE mag will keep on feeding and working 100% fine until you get a chance to swap it out. The metal lined lip will never work the same again, even if you do try to bend it back. This sounds familiar... "We purposely omitted reinforcing the feed-lips with metal, being as our polymer rebounds back to its original shape much more reliably than metal or metal reinforced designs. When examined, the benefit of steel reinforced feed lips was found to be less desirable, as the two dissimilar materials, polymer and steel rebound and flex at differing rates. This can cause delamination between the two materials, which can create an environment for malfunctions. It was also observed that even though the AKM platform is field proven and very robust, attempts at field repairing bent feed lips by end users were unsuccessful." Oh, thats right, straight from US PALMs site description about their mags... So this has been tried before (at the same price point even), and hasn't become very prolific; I wonder if the Magpul branding/design will help these to succeed where others have failed. Magpul has disassembly going for it; I'd be curious to see how the two preform in a head to head test. |
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Posted: 1/28/2015 1:07:44 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Also, do the Magpul mags use the same internal geometry as comblock mags?" (Sorry-hit reply instead of quote) The curve is the same, as pretty much all the com bloc mags are already optimized for the taper of the round and the resulting round stack. Other than that, the geometry is a result of getting round stack, follower, and feeding rounds during stripping and chamber entry to do exactly what they need to do while making sure the resulting forces on the bolt carrier are what they are supposed to be during cycling, etc., etc., science and stuff. There is a bit of variety in com bloc mags, and we did indeed baseline a bunch of them and determine which characteristics correlated with more reliable feeding, etc, before designing our mags. Or should the OEM manufacturers sue Magpul for using their IP, specifically internal magazine geometry. You know, like Magpul does to other companies who also have curved internal AR15 magazine bodies.
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Posted: 1/28/2015 2:22:32 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So will you be sending the OEM combloc magazine manufacturers royalties or licensing fees? Or should the OEM manufacturers sue Magpul for using their IP, specifically internal magazine geometry. You know, like Magpul does to other companies who also have curved internal AR15 magazine bodies. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
"Also, do the Magpul mags use the same internal geometry as comblock mags?" (Sorry-hit reply instead of quote) The curve is the same, as pretty much all the com bloc mags are already optimized for the taper of the round and the resulting round stack. Other than that, the geometry is a result of getting round stack, follower, and feeding rounds during stripping and chamber entry to do exactly what they need to do while making sure the resulting forces on the bolt carrier are what they are supposed to be during cycling, etc., etc., science and stuff. There is a bit of variety in com bloc mags, and we did indeed baseline a bunch of them and determine which characteristics correlated with more reliable feeding, etc, before designing our mags. Or should the OEM manufacturers sue Magpul for using their IP, specifically internal magazine geometry. You know, like Magpul does to other companies who also have curved internal AR15 magazine bodies. We always review any IP (intellectual property) that exists or is pending on the any product we plan to produce, this includes AK magazine geometry. |
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Posted: 1/28/2015 2:32:04 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All that "material science" and magazine production experience got us, was another plastic AK mag that breaks when you drop it and costs twice what other plastic AK mags that break when you drop them do. And standing by to produce another one, this time 4 times as expensive. whoopty-doo.
A little underwhelmed here by the science. And a little aghast at a company who thinks they know what I "need", I pay for what I want and i'll be the judge of whether I "need" it or not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
lol magpul still justifying their decision to not reinforce feed lips fail lol random internet guy still he thinks he knows more about material science and magazine production than magpul fail All that "material science" and magazine production experience got us, was another plastic AK mag that breaks when you drop it and costs twice what other plastic AK mags that break when you drop them do. And standing by to produce another one, this time 4 times as expensive. whoopty-doo.
A little underwhelmed here by the science. And a little aghast at a company who thinks they know what I "need", I pay for what I want and i'll be the judge of whether I "need" it or not. "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." -Henry Ford -As quoted in Steve Jobs by Walter Isaacson |
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Posted: 1/28/2015 2:32:30 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So will you be sending the OEM combloc magazine manufacturers royalties or licensing fees? Or should the OEM manufacturers sue Magpul for using their IP, specifically internal magazine geometry. You know, like Magpul does to other companies who also have curved internal AR15 magazine bodies. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
"Also, do the Magpul mags use the same internal geometry as comblock mags?" (Sorry-hit reply instead of quote) The curve is the same, as pretty much all the com bloc mags are already optimized for the taper of the round and the resulting round stack. Other than that, the geometry is a result of getting round stack, follower, and feeding rounds during stripping and chamber entry to do exactly what they need to do while making sure the resulting forces on the bolt carrier are what they are supposed to be during cycling, etc., etc., science and stuff. There is a bit of variety in com bloc mags, and we did indeed baseline a bunch of them and determine which characteristics correlated with more reliable feeding, etc, before designing our mags. Or should the OEM manufacturers sue Magpul for using their IP, specifically internal magazine geometry. You know, like Magpul does to other companies who also have curved internal AR15 magazine bodies. In the Communist Block the rights of people or businesses are not recognized unless you pay a fee. It all belongs to the state from your birth to your death. Read the Communist Manifesto and the other Satanic writings from Karl Marx. You deserve to be cursed out in a serious way but then I would be permanently banned so I'm holding back. 
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Posted: 1/28/2015 8:02:31 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In the Communist Block the rights of people or businesses are not recognized unless you pay a fee. It all belongs to the state from your birth to your death. Read the Communist Manifesto and the other Satanic writings from Karl Marx. You deserve to be cursed out in a serious way but then I would be permanently banned so I'm holding back. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: "Also, do the Magpul mags use the same internal geometry as comblock mags?" (Sorry-hit reply instead of quote) The curve is the same, as pretty much all the com bloc mags are already optimized for the taper of the round and the resulting round stack. Other than that, the geometry is a result of getting round stack, follower, and feeding rounds during stripping and chamber entry to do exactly what they need to do while making sure the resulting forces on the bolt carrier are what they are supposed to be during cycling, etc., etc., science and stuff. There is a bit of variety in com bloc mags, and we did indeed baseline a bunch of them and determine which characteristics correlated with more reliable feeding, etc, before designing our mags. Or should the OEM manufacturers sue Magpul for using their IP, specifically internal magazine geometry. You know, like Magpul does to other companies who also have curved internal AR15 magazine bodies. In the Communist Block the rights of people or businesses are not recognized unless you pay a fee. It all belongs to the state from your birth to your death. Read the Communist Manifesto and the other Satanic writings from Karl Marx. You deserve to be cursed out in a serious way but then I would be permanently banned so I'm holding back. Why would you want to curse out someone pointing out an obvious moral flaw in the business practices of a company? People flog Troy Industries and ARMS Inc for similar reasons. Also, I see no benefit to a polymer magazine with plastic feed lips over a $8 Tapco magazine, and certainly no advantage over the existing US Palm magazine with has similar reinforcements other then feed lips. Someone should do a test of polymer magazines when these unreinforced Magpul magazines become available.
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Posted: 1/28/2015 8:35:20 AM EDT
[#46]
Edited: Nevermind, don't want to muddy up the thread. I'm ok with what Magpul is doing here.
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Posted: 1/28/2015 11:22:46 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All that "material science" and magazine production experience got us, was another plastic AK mag that breaks when you drop it and costs twice what other plastic AK mags that break when you drop them do. And standing by to produce another one, this time 4 times as expensive. whoopty-doo.
A little underwhelmed here by the science. And a little aghast at a company who thinks they know what I "need", I pay for what I want and i'll be the judge of whether I "need" it or not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
lol magpul still justifying their decision to not reinforce feed lips fail lol random internet guy still he thinks he knows more about material science and magazine production than magpul fail All that "material science" and magazine production experience got us, was another plastic AK mag that breaks when you drop it and costs twice what other plastic AK mags that break when you drop them do. And standing by to produce another one, this time 4 times as expensive. whoopty-doo.
A little underwhelmed here by the science. And a little aghast at a company who thinks they know what I "need", I pay for what I want and i'll be the judge of whether I "need" it or not. Feel free to be underwhelmed. More mags for the rest of us.
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Posted: 1/28/2015 12:56:56 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All that "material science" and magazine production experience got us, was another plastic AK mag that breaks when you drop it and costs twice what other plastic AK mags that break when you drop them do. And standing by to produce another one, this time 4 times as expensive. whoopty-doo.
A little underwhelmed here by the science. And a little aghast at a company who thinks they know what I "need", I pay for what I want and i'll be the judge of whether I "need" it or not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
lol magpul still justifying their decision to not reinforce feed lips fail lol random internet guy still he thinks he knows more about material science and magazine production than magpul fail All that "material science" and magazine production experience got us, was another plastic AK mag that breaks when you drop it and costs twice what other plastic AK mags that break when you drop them do. And standing by to produce another one, this time 4 times as expensive. whoopty-doo.
A little underwhelmed here by the science. And a little aghast at a company who thinks they know what I "need", I pay for what I want and i'll be the judge of whether I "need" it or not. They aren't making their products specifically for you. If you don't like it, don't buy it. I'd it that hard a concept? |
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Posted: 1/28/2015 1:36:28 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." -Henry Ford -As quoted in Steve Jobs by Walter Isaacson Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
lol magpul still justifying their decision to not reinforce feed lips fail lol random internet guy still he thinks he knows more about material science and magazine production than magpul fail All that "material science" and magazine production experience got us, was another plastic AK mag that breaks when you drop it and costs twice what other plastic AK mags that break when you drop them do. And standing by to produce another one, this time 4 times as expensive. whoopty-doo.
A little underwhelmed here by the science. And a little aghast at a company who thinks they know what I "need", I pay for what I want and i'll be the judge of whether I "need" it or not. "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." -Henry Ford -As quoted in Steve Jobs by Walter Isaacson I'm one of the guys who trusts your testing and final product. But uhh... I do want a 5.45 version. Any chance you guys will bequeath us this gift in the 2015? |
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Posted: 1/28/2015 1:43:13 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was speaking from a moral standpoint. If an entity makes use of laws that benefit the entity, and are detrimental to another entity, is it moral for the former entity to then commit hypocrisy when no law exists to protect other entities against competition? Why would you want to curse out someone pointing out an obvious moral flaw in the business practices of a company? People flog Troy Industries and ARMS Inc for similar reasons. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
"Also, do the Magpul mags use the same internal geometry as comblock mags?" (Sorry-hit reply instead of quote) The curve is the same, as pretty much all the com bloc mags are already optimized for the taper of the round and the resulting round stack. Other than that, the geometry is a result of getting round stack, follower, and feeding rounds during stripping and chamber entry to do exactly what they need to do while making sure the resulting forces on the bolt carrier are what they are supposed to be during cycling, etc., etc., science and stuff. There is a bit of variety in com bloc mags, and we did indeed baseline a bunch of them and determine which characteristics correlated with more reliable feeding, etc, before designing our mags. Or should the OEM manufacturers sue Magpul for using their IP, specifically internal magazine geometry. You know, like Magpul does to other companies who also have curved internal AR15 magazine bodies. In the Communist Block the rights of people or businesses are not recognized unless you pay a fee. It all belongs to the state from your birth to your death. Read the Communist Manifesto and the other Satanic writings from Karl Marx. You deserve to be cursed out in a serious way but then I would be permanently banned so I'm holding back. Why would you want to curse out someone pointing out an obvious moral flaw in the business practices of a company? People flog Troy Industries and ARMS Inc for similar reasons. Expecting us to abide by US Patent law for other patented inventions while at the same time not protecting and defending our own intellectual property under the same law is just ignorant. Patents are part of US law, just like all the others laws of the land. In fact intellectual property is more closely related to freedom than even personal physical property. It is at it's root the ownership of ones own ideas. |
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