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Posted: 11/20/2014 12:40:13 PM EDT
I've used various zeros over the years and find it odd there is no general consensus on what is the ideal zero to use.

Many revert back to the older Soviet manual procedure which would allow for NATO targets to be engaged out to 800-1000m

I have used the following zeros:

1.) Slider set on "1" - target at 25m / 22y - shoot for POA/POI
2.) Slider set on "2" - target at 25m / 22y - shoot for POA/POI
3.) Slider set on "1" - target at 100 yards - shoot for POA/POI
4.) Slider set on "1" - target at 50 yards - shoot for POA/POI (similar groupings to 100 yards - also easier distance to use)

and so forth.... all have worked well within the 200 yards I shoot, but have minor variances.

Optics get zero'd at 50 yards and confirmed at 100 (ultimak).

Have a new addition to the family coming and was thinking about how I want or should zero it once its here. This will be a 200 yard max rifle - sure I might take shots out to 300 with it for fun - but I want to get the best overall "set it and forget it" zero.... no need to adjust the ladder - just something that will provide hits in a 6" vertical spread (if possible).

What is my best course of action here?
Link Posted: 11/20/2014 1:17:36 PM EDT
[#1]
Why not zero with the slider at "1" and shoot 100m POA/POI.  Then run the rifle set in the "2" slot constantly.  Use a slight 6 o'clock hold and you'd be AK accurate to 200 meters.  If you want precision, just know you would be POI zeroed at about 25m and at 200m, and within about +/-4" out to about 250-ish meters.  (this is for 7.62x39, BTW.)

I'm sure other people's opinions will vary, but this works for me with little thinking about shooting high or low.  If I want precision, just slowing down and thinking about my exact target range allows me to place shots accordingly.
Link Posted: 11/20/2014 1:42:11 PM EDT
[#2]
I zero'd my first 5.45 with the slider at the combat notch, shot a 50yd zero at 25yds; my 7.62s are done with the same sight setting, but with 25yd zeros.
I zero'd my optics (Rakurs) on both at 25yds.
Link Posted: 11/20/2014 1:57:25 PM EDT
[#3]
All my AKs are zeroed with your "1.) Slider set on "1" - target at 25m / 22y - shoot for POA/POI," with essentially the same for my optics. To me it works for a good "combat effective" zero, thats the route I would go with.
Link Posted: 11/20/2014 2:18:22 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
All my AKs are zeroed with your "1.) Slider set on "1" - target at 25m / 22y - shoot for POA/POI," with essentially the same for my optics. To me it works for a good "combat effective" zero, thats the route I would go with.
View Quote


+1

Slider set to 1 setting, zero at 25 yards, slight adjustment at 100 yards with the slider staying on the 1 setting
Link Posted: 11/20/2014 2:30:05 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:


+1

Slider set to 1 setting, zero at 25 yards, slight adjustment at 100 yards with the slider staying on the 1 setting
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Quoted:
Quoted:
All my AKs are zeroed with your "1.) Slider set on "1" - target at 25m / 22y - shoot for POA/POI," with essentially the same for my optics. To me it works for a good "combat effective" zero, thats the route I would go with.


+1

Slider set to 1 setting, zero at 25 yards, slight adjustment at 100 yards with the slider staying on the 1 setting


perfect - its what I was planning to do with this one.
Link Posted: 11/20/2014 3:58:44 PM EDT
[#6]
I just use whatever the doctrine was for the Russians that made it.

Zero at 25 meters (27 yards) on 'battle zero' setting. (Usually the last slot with a crylic 'N' or 'P'.)

Then just use whatever setting that corresponds to the range I'm shooting at. (1 for 100 meters, 2 for 200 and so on.)

For optics, I usually follow the instructions that come with them; but, it seems that magnified optics are commonly zeroed at 100 meters. I usually zero red dot sights at 50 yards, though. Unless it specifically calls for a different zero.
Link Posted: 11/20/2014 10:00:17 PM EDT
[#7]
Target at measured 50 meters, rear sight set on "1", 6 o'clock hold, shoot to verify POA/POI and check at 100 meters to verify. If I want to run it out farther I just adjust to BSZ and I'm good to 300 meters. Figured that since the rifle came with adjustable sights I'd set it up where the adjustments equaled what they were supposed to, except for temperature variations.
Link Posted: 11/20/2014 10:39:25 PM EDT
[#8]
I was trying to zero my new AK and was wondering if it was unusual to require 2 full turns of the front sight to bring the point of impact up @ 50-60 yards?
Link Posted: 11/20/2014 11:06:36 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
I was trying to zero my new AK and was wondering if it was unusual to require 2 full turns of the front sight to bring the point of impact up @ 50-60 yards?
View Quote


No, that doesn't seem unusual. Especially if the rifle has never been zeroed. The front sight was likely just installed to the builder's best guess.  Also depends on what range setting your rear sight was in during your zero process.
Link Posted: 11/20/2014 11:56:57 PM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:


No, that doesn't seem unusual. Especially if the rifle has never been zeroed. The front sight was likely just installed to the builder's best guess.  Also depends on what range setting your rear sight was in during your zero process.
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Quoted:
I was trying to zero my new AK and was wondering if it was unusual to require 2 full turns of the front sight to bring the point of impact up @ 50-60 yards?


No, that doesn't seem unusual. Especially if the rifle has never been zeroed. The front sight was likely just installed to the builder's best guess.  Also depends on what range setting your rear sight was in during your zero process.


Thanks for input.  I have recently rediscovered the joy of shooting.  I had a Norinco underfolder and a polytech side folder in the late 80's and don't remember adjusting the sights.  But heck back then, ammo was so cheap you just kept jerking the trigger until you hit something lol.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 1:30:26 AM EDT
[#11]
OP, seems you may be able to help me out being you have done a lot of these techniques!!

I need to zero a SAM7 and an SLR-107 and I would like for it to be as close to a tackdriver as an AK can be and for the rear settings to be calibrated, my eyesight just kind of sucks at 100 yards (especially for zeroing at 100) but I would like to be able to get good groups, NOT a "One setting for All" Zero AKA "Battle Setting" Zero)

I want it to be zeroed at 100yds (or 100 meters) on the "100 Setting" and wonder if these "Methods" ARE TRUE??

1.  I've heard that with rear notch set on "1 (100) setting" , that a 50 yard zero puts you on at 100yds (maybe a tad twist in elevation, or a 6 o'clock hold makes them the same, So I've Heard!! This is what I plan to do but am open to these others also if they work properly!!

2.  I've actually saw a graph and some swear by the fact that a 50 yard zero has the same crossover as 109 yards (Which is exactly "100 METERS") and claims it works perfectly  on the "1 (100) Setting"!!

3. Another method I thought of using was Zeroing at 25yds (some say 21m which is a couple yards less) on the "2 (200) setting", and it's said to get you on at 25 and 200yds and if you slide it to the "1 (100) Setting", that you will be near dead on at 100 yds also. TRUE??

4. Same also say if you zero at 25yds on the Rear Most "Battle Setting", that if switched to the "1 (100) setting" that it will be dead on at 100yds!!

I know that ammo and rifle cause variations, but can anyone vouch for (the less popular) Zeroing Methods above??
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 11:00:03 AM EDT
[#12]
zero'd the 107 at 100 yards.

at 50 yards it was more or less on as well.

With that said - I used 50 as a starting point - then made minor adjustments at 100 - then went back to 50 to see how she shot.

I'm satisfied with my results based on the MOA spread one will find with bulk ammo.

This was done with leaf set to "1".

Link Posted: 11/24/2014 11:56:06 AM EDT
[#13]
I just wrote a guest blog article on this.

http://www.thenewrifleman.com/the-best-way-to-zero-your-ar15-or-kalashnikov/

These short military zeroes are not being done because they are the best, they are being done because they are the most convenient.  

A 200Y zero is the best not because I say so, but because the flat spot of the trajectory says it is.  This is true for most combat rifle calibers.  The flat spot of the trajectory is in roughly the same place for them all.  If you are using it as a combat rifle, it makes sense to assume impacts on a torso-sized target are the goal.  

It roughly coincides with a 50Y POA/POI but you should zero at the further distance in the interest of precision wherever possible.  

No need to touch the sights from the muzzle to 300.  



Link Posted: 11/24/2014 1:47:23 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
I've used various zeros over the years and find it odd there is no general consensus on what is the ideal zero to use.

Many revert back to the older Soviet manual procedure which would allow for NATO targets to be engaged out to 800-1000m

I have used the following zeros:

1.) Slider set on "1" - target at 25m / 22y - shoot for POA/POI
2.) Slider set on "2" - target at 25m / 22y - shoot for POA/POI
3.) Slider set on "1" - target at 100 yards - shoot for POA/POI
4.) Slider set on "1" - target at 50 yards - shoot for POA/POI (similar groupings to 100 yards - also easier distance to use)

and so forth.... all have worked well within the 200 yards I shoot, but have minor variances.

Optics get zero'd at 50 yards and confirmed at 100 (ultimak).

Have a new addition to the family coming and was thinking about how I want or should zero it once its here. This will be a 200 yard max rifle - sure I might take shots out to 300 with it for fun - but I want to get the best overall "set it and forget it" zero.... no need to adjust the ladder - just something that will provide hits in a 6" vertical spread (if possible).

What is my best course of action here?
View Quote


That's it. The reason you zero at 50 because with the AK sometimes you can't zero at 100 at all because the groups are the size of cantaloupes. With the rear sight on '1' you are now ready to shoot at whatever you need to shoot at. If for some reason you decide to shoot at something farther than 100, just set the rear sight to that distance and you'll be in the ball park.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 7:31:29 PM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:
zero'd the 107 at 100 yards.

at 50 yards it was more or less on as well.

With that said - I used 50 as a starting point - then made minor adjustments at 100 - then went back to 50 to see how she shot.

I'm satisfied with my results based on the MOA spread one will find with bulk ammo.

This was done with leaf set to "1".

View Quote


How were your groups, and what ammo was used? Any Golden Tiger?
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 9:36:16 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:


How were your groups, and what ammo was used? Any Golden Tiger?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
zero'd the 107 at 100 yards.

at 50 yards it was more or less on as well.

With that said - I used 50 as a starting point - then made minor adjustments at 100 - then went back to 50 to see how she shot.

I'm satisfied with my results based on the MOA spread one will find with bulk ammo.

This was done with leaf set to "1".



How were your groups, and what ammo was used? Any Golden Tiger?


4-5" at 100 and around 2" at 50 using wolf MC.

using golden tiger 100 yards was about the same but much tighter (consistently) at 50.

The big issue at 100 was black targets and irons aren't as sharp to my eye as I'd like them to be
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 7:11:49 AM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:


4-5" at 100 and around 2" at 50 using wolf MC.

using golden tiger 100 yards was about the same but much tighter (consistently) at 50.

The big issue at 100 was black targets and irons aren't as sharp to my eye as I'd like them to be
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
zero'd the 107 at 100 yards.

at 50 yards it was more or less on as well.

With that said - I used 50 as a starting point - then made minor adjustments at 100 - then went back to 50 to see how she shot.

I'm satisfied with my results based on the MOA spread one will find with bulk ammo.

This was done with leaf set to "1".



How were your groups, and what ammo was used? Any Golden Tiger?


4-5" at 100 and around 2" at 50 using wolf MC.

using golden tiger 100 yards was about the same but much tighter (consistently) at 50.

The big issue at 100 was black targets and irons aren't as sharp to my eye as I'd like them to be


Cool, I I DEF know what you mean on the targets...Hell, I'm having sight picture issues with the edges of the Rear sight looking fuzzy and its hard to tell when everything is ACTUALLY aligned perfectly or if its aligned to the "Blurred" corners that I see. If its very sunny out, its a guessing game being its all a blur looking down the sights, I try to shoot in the shade at targets that are in the Sun...Need my eyes checked honestly.

I could swear that on my old Romanian AK's that the front sight would fill up the entire rear sight cutout and you would ONLY have to align the top of the front post with the top of the rear top edge.

Yet, on the "Arsenal AK's", aiming is more precise, being that you have to center the post PERFECTLY in a wider/deeper "U" shaped cutout or it'll throw the shot if not perfect (compared to the the half-square shaped Romy rear sight cutouts.)

Not that its difficult, but just leaves more room for error if its not centered perfectly when aiming (Kind of like an AR in the "Big Ring")... It may be because my front sight is at angle with a slight twist in elevation (possibly making it appear thinner than it should be, if it were straight in either direction.)

Maybe my eyes just suck now and it never was an issue before..lol. Maybe a bit of both!!
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 11:45:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Anyone notice this^^^^

Or is it just my eyes? Seriously asking, been havig eye issues but it seems the rear sight cutout is diff on "Bulgy Vs Romy" AKs, but I do not have 1 of each to compare being I upgraded to Bulgies and sold the Century Romys.
Link Posted: 11/26/2014 7:52:27 AM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:

I could swear that on my old Romanian AK's that the front sight would fill up the entire rear sight cutout and you would ONLY have to align the top of the front post with the top of the rear top edge.
View Quote


That is not the case with any AK I have owned or shot, including the Romanian made weapons.
The front post does not appear to fill the notch. It should be centered in the notch.
Link Posted: 11/26/2014 9:58:27 AM EDT
[#20]
I tossed the spare Krebs peep sight on the 107 to see if I would like it with the longer sight radius.... I don't.

So I saw their fast acquisition sight that is $30 - then realized I can open up the notch myself.

What size file & type (chainsaw?) are folks using to do this?
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 1:01:54 AM EDT
[#21]
With 5.45 I zero at 50/200 then verify at 100. Its was the most familiar to me since I use a 50/200 with 5.56.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 2:29:29 PM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:
What size file & type (chainsaw?) are folks using to do this?
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I've lent a friend a very small, very fine double sided file with a very slight triangular cross section to do that work on his rifle.

I've had it forever so I don't know where I got it. It looks like some I've seen labeled as jeweler's files.
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 5:29:58 PM EDT
[#23]
all intermediate calibers, 50 yrd zero is good to go. good to 200+yrs, same cross over

set at D, zero; drop to 1
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