ARCHIVED ARCHIVED
  Previous Page
Page:  / 2
Author
Message
kalash74
Offline
Posts: 496
Feedback: 100% (8)
Posted: 10/10/2012 5:04:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2012 5:05:40 PM EST by kalash74]
With a lot of talk of people going to the SIG556R these days (the SIG556 is sometimes touted as an upgraded AK), I'm curious. I'm not ready to abandon my AKs yet, but I do sometimes wonder if it is worth investing well over $1000 for an AK when a SIG556 is not much more expensive, if not cheaper.

Anyway, what I'm curious about is
(i) reliability
(ii) weight/handling.

I know the SIG556 had some issues 1 or 2 years ago, but have the bugs been worked out? I would be more interested in the 5.56 version than the 7.62. (Actually, I wish they made a 5.45, but they don't ).

I don't want this to devolve into a flame war anything like that, I just want straight facts. How much does the SIG556R weigh, and is there a reason to prefer it over the AK?
fatcat4620
Offline
Posts: 70
Feedback: 100% (21)
Link To This Post
Posted: 10/10/2012 5:08:52 PM EST
I wonder why people spend 1K on an AK. My M10 out the door for under $550 has been rockin. Now I am working with a $4 can of high temp paint to make her look better. As for the sig I'm sure its a fine gun but the AK has a track record no rifle in the world can touch.
sdrake100
Member
Offline
Posts: 1767
Feedback: 98% (56)
Link To This Post
Posted: 10/10/2012 5:17:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2012 5:20:34 PM EST by sdrake100]
The SIG556R is front heavy. Around 7lbs without a mag, but all the weight is in the front. Barrel is nitrided. Receiver is aluminium with steel inserts so the steel magazines don't chew the lower receiver to pieces. Bugs seemed to have been worked out, but it's still a little hit or miss depending on model, and lacks a track record of reliability.

I don't know how it would perform if run very hard or in adverse conditions. Sig customer service sucks, so remember you're marrying the in-laws too when you buy one. Make sure you buy the newer version with the Swiss stock rather than the US Sig designed abomination. Also, it doesn't come with good iron sights and are given a less than stellar red dot suitable only for .22's, so you have to consider the cost of new sights as well.

I've shot 1.5-3MOA at 100 yards consistently with steel cased in 5 shot groups. If I benched it, it might get close to 1MOA, but I don't have the testing under my belt to prove it. Did not have a jam in the one I had the chance of shooting, but the owner said it was a little picky before it "broke in", whatever that means.

Would I take it over a good AK? No.
purevl2
Offline
Posts: 2738
Feedback: 100% (105)
Link To This Post
Posted: 10/10/2012 5:28:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2012 5:45:44 PM EST by purevl2]
Originally Posted By sdrake100:
The SIG556R is front heavy. Around 7lbs without a mag, but all the weight is in the front. Barrel is nitrided. Receiver is aluminium with steel inserts so the steel magazines don't chew the lower receiver to pieces. Bugs seemed to have been worked out, but it's still a little hit or miss depending on model, and lacks a track record of reliability.

I don't know how it would perform if run very hard or in adverse conditions. Sig customer service sucks, so remember you're marrying the in-laws too when you buy one. Make sure you buy the newer version with the Swiss stock rather than the US Sig designed abomination. Also, it doesn't come with good iron sights and are given a less than stellar red dot suitable only for .22's, so you have to consider the cost of new sights as well.

I've shot 1.5-3MOA at 100 yards consistently with steel cased in 5 shot groups. If I benched it, it might get close to 1MOA, but I don't have the testing under my belt to prove it. Did not have a jam in the one I had the chance of shooting, but the owner said it was a little picky before it "broke in", whatever that means.

Would I take it over a good AK? No.


The drake summed it up nicely. It's the answer to a question no one asked. IMHO the SCAR is a better AK variant than the 556R .
yellowrexsi
Offline
Posts: 184
Feedback: 100% (2)
Link To This Post
Posted: 10/10/2012 5:31:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By sdrake100:
The SIG556R is front heavy. Around 7lbs without a mag, but all the weight is in the front.


This was my first impression when I felt the gun. Hated the feel of it. My interest in this weapon ended right there.
LIONHART
Offline
Posts: 4793
Feedback: 100% (95)
Link To This Post
Posted: 10/10/2012 5:36:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2012 5:48:01 PM EST by LIONHART]
Been an AK owner/collector for more than 20 years...

I prefer the SIG.

SIG's customer service is second to none. You have a problem, they email you a FEDEX shipping label.

The SIG 55X series performs excellent in adverse weather conditions. The 55X series have been fielded for more than two decades.

Sure, I have my gripes with SIG, but I don't expect to see $500.00+Swiss made sights on a $1000.00 rifle either. There are options out there, and will be more options coming in the near future as far as sights go.

SIG may have hit a few bumps in the road with their earlier 556 models, but SIG listened, and got 'em right.

Hell, I've sent ARSENAL AK's back for warranty work, and I had to pay the shipping!
sdrake100
Member
Offline
Posts: 1768
Feedback: 98% (56)
Link To This Post
Posted: 10/10/2012 5:41:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By yellowrexsi:
Originally Posted By sdrake100:
The SIG556R is front heavy. Around 7lbs without a mag, but all the weight is in the front.


This was my first impression when I felt the gun. Hated the feel of it. My interest in this weapon ended right there.


That was also my first impression when handling it. A steel barrel in the front, and aluminium and plastic in the back does not make a balanced rifle. If you portioned the rifle equally into thirds, the balance point was in the 1/3 point closest to the barrel. Bringing it up from the resting position didn't feel natural, causing me to compensate for the momentum. Holding it shouldered for extended periods would probably become cumbersome for those that are recreational shooters.
CGP2
Member
Offline
Posts: 892
Feedback: 100% (170)
Link To This Post
Posted: 10/10/2012 6:01:25 PM EST
Originally Posted By LIONHART:
Been an AK owner/collector for more than 20 years...

I prefer the SIG.

SIG's customer service is second to none. You have a problem, they email you a FEDEX shipping label.

The SIG 55X series performs excellent in adverse weather conditions. The 55X series have been fielded for more than two decades.

Sure, I have my gripes with SIG, but I don't expect to see $500.00+Swiss made sights on a $1000.00 rifle either. There are options out there, and will be more options coming in the near future as far as sights go.

SIG may have hit a few bumps in the road with their earlier 556 models, but SIG listened, and got 'em right.

Hell, I've sent ARSENAL AK's back for warranty work, and I had to pay the shipping!


Only time will tell how the 556R performs long term. At this point, I am not convinced. Too much history of issues to just ignore and accept on faith. AKs may have canted sights and loose gas blocks but good golly they run 100% of the time. Military grade and field tested parts for the AK vs. Sig 556R rifle made for civilian semi-auto crowd. It's not even in the same category.
HWI
Military
Offline
Posts: 565
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 10/10/2012 6:11:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By CGP2:

Only time will tell how the 556R performs long term. At this point, I am not convinced. Too much history of issues to just ignore and accept on faith. AKs may have canted sights and loose gas blocks but good golly they run 100% of the time. Military grade and field tested parts for the AK vs. Sig 556R rifle made for civilian semi-auto crowd. It's not even in the same category.


Agreed.
The Sig rifles we have here are not in the same league as the military issue rifles. We can't use their track record of excellence for the rifles built here in the US.
amadeus76
Offline
Posts: 195
Feedback: 100% (4)
Link To This Post
Posted: 10/10/2012 7:25:58 PM EST
I want to like the SIG and they are supposed to have worked out the issues from their originally run... But I keep hearing of issues.

LIONHART
Offline
Posts: 4794
Feedback: 100% (95)
Link To This Post
Posted: 10/10/2012 8:27:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2012 8:37:43 PM EST by LIONHART]
Originally Posted By CGP2:
Originally Posted By LIONHART:
Been an AK owner/collector for more than 20 years...

I prefer the SIG.

SIG's customer service is second to none. You have a problem, they email you a FEDEX shipping label.

The SIG 55X series performs excellent in adverse weather conditions. The 55X series have been fielded for more than two decades.

Sure, I have my gripes with SIG, but I don't expect to see $500.00+Swiss made sights on a $1000.00 rifle either. There are options out there, and will be more options coming in the near future as far as sights go.

SIG may have hit a few bumps in the road with their earlier 556 models, but SIG listened, and got 'em right.

Hell, I've sent ARSENAL AK's back for warranty work, and I had to pay the shipping!


Only time will tell how the 556R performs long term. At this point, I am not convinced. Too much history of issues to just ignore and accept on faith. AKs may have canted sights and loose gas blocks but good golly they run 100% of the time. Military grade and field tested parts for the AK vs. Sig 556R rifle made for civilian semi-auto crowd. It's not even in the same category.


Sure, some have had issues...I can say the same about the various AK's and manufactures as well. Though I wouldn't necessarily suggest that there is a long history of issues with the SIG. Some early models had canted rails, and there was an issue with the trunnion not being to spec where the bolt carrier got slightly peened. In reference to the 556R, SIG has since corrected the issues, and it too is a fine rifle.

Tell me, what is the difference between what you say is the Military grade SIG 55X and the civilian model that are not in the same category? The only thing I can think of, the semi doesn't have the 3rd position.

Having an ambi and easily manipulated selector lever, longer sight radius, better sights, a BHO, a rail to mount optics, a side folding stock, ETC, are all things that make the AK come up short. IF these features are important to you.

The barrels are nitride treated, the receiver like the Swiss model, is welded not only to the inner steel rails, but to the trunnion as well, the newest Swiss models also incorporate an alloy lower, (The US models have a forged 7075 lower) the gas system is the same, as is the majority of parts. There are some parts that are unique to the 556R.

I'm not going to suggest that every rifle that SIG produces is going to be perfect, but the same can be said about all manufactures.

There's other 7.62X39 models coming from SIG as well.

I still like AK's, but I'd opt for the SIG if it came down to only one.

Okaraider
Offline
Posts: 249
Feedback: 100% (15)
Link To This Post
Posted: 10/10/2012 10:08:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2012 10:10:16 PM EST by Okaraider]
Had a Sig556. Ran fine but the fit and finish was horrible. Furniture was cheap. To cheap for a $1000 rifle. Oh but you can pay even more money and get a decent stock that probably should have come on it to begin with. Really?
To heavy for what it does especially in 556. More complicated to clean especially compared to an AK. I don't like the aluminum/metal mix at all in their pistols or rifles. Sold mine and got a converted Saiga and I am much happier.
CGP2
Member
Offline
Posts: 896
Feedback: 100% (170)
Link To This Post
Posted: 10/11/2012 8:20:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By LIONHART:
Originally Posted By CGP2:
Originally Posted By LIONHART:
Been an AK owner/collector for more than 20 years...

I prefer the SIG.

SIG's customer service is second to none. You have a problem, they email you a FEDEX shipping label.

The SIG 55X series performs excellent in adverse weather conditions. The 55X series have been fielded for more than two decades.

Sure, I have my gripes with SIG, but I don't expect to see $500.00+Swiss made sights on a $1000.00 rifle either. There are options out there, and will be more options coming in the near future as far as sights go.

SIG may have hit a few bumps in the road with their earlier 556 models, but SIG listened, and got 'em right.

Hell, I've sent ARSENAL AK's back for warranty work, and I had to pay the shipping!


Only time will tell how the 556R performs long term. At this point, I am not convinced. Too much history of issues to just ignore and accept on faith. AKs may have canted sights and loose gas blocks but good golly they run 100% of the time. Military grade and field tested parts for the AK vs. Sig 556R rifle made for civilian semi-auto crowd. It's not even in the same category.


Sure, some have had issues...I can say the same about the various AK's and manufactures as well. Though I wouldn't necessarily suggest that there is a long history of issues with the SIG. Some early models had canted rails, and there was an issue with the trunnion not being to spec where the bolt carrier got slightly peened. In reference to the 556R, SIG has since corrected the issues, and it too is a fine rifle.

Tell me, what is the difference between what you say is the Military grade SIG 55X and the civilian model that are not in the same category? The only thing I can think of, the semi doesn't have the 3rd position.

Having an ambi and easily manipulated selector lever, longer sight radius, better sights, a BHO, a rail to mount optics, a side folding stock, ETC, are all things that make the AK come up short. IF these features are important to you.

The barrels are nitride treated, the receiver like the Swiss model, is welded not only to the inner steel rails, but to the trunnion as well, the newest Swiss models also incorporate an alloy lower, (The US models have a forged 7075 lower) the gas system is the same, as is the majority of parts. There are some parts that are unique to the 556R.

I'm not going to suggest that every rifle that SIG produces is going to be perfect, but the same can be said about all manufactures.

There's other 7.62X39 models coming from SIG as well.

I still like AK's, but I'd opt for the SIG if it came down to only one.



I wish I knew what all the differences are between a Swiss made Sig 55x and the Exeter 556R. I think we can agree that swiss manufacturing process is a lot better than anything Exeter can put out. The Swiss also cater to a different type of operator - military vs. Sig Exeter civilian. Do you really think the Swiss army would field Exeter made Sigs?. It's designed to cater to the AK semi-auto crowd and Sig used them for field testing. Not exactly a receipe for quality. It's a well established fact that the earlier generations of 556Rs had some serious issues - cant handle steel cased ammo, soft aluminum receiver vs steel AK mags to cite specifics. I even read about Sig voiding warranty if you use steel cased ammo. This is after they said they have this cool new Sig 556R chambered to fire cheap 7.62x39 ammo and it's gonna be awesome. We all know what happened. They realized after actual field testers (those unfortunate enough to buy the early gens) that the 556R had issues. Really?

So they came out with a next generation a few months ago. How did they test this? Any documented test on how the reliability of the rifle fared after 1000 rounds? 5000 rounds, 30k rounds? Any submersion and sand tests? How are those screwed on rails holding up? Even Gabe S. recommends removing those screws and putting red Loctite on them because they tend to get loose with use.

Note that I am specific to the 556R. I have Sig guns too and this is not a bashing of Sig as a company. I think they have other good products. I'm just not convinced the 556R is one of them - at least not at this time and certainly not for the platform it intended to improve.

sdrake100
Member
Offline
Posts: 1776
Feedback: 98% (56)
Link To This Post
Posted: 10/11/2012 8:29:00 PM EST
+1. I don't like Sigs in general, but the 556R remains an untested rifle. Too many unknowns for me to comfortably commit to purchase one.
HWI
Military
Offline
Posts: 573
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 10/11/2012 9:38:27 PM EST
That MAC video on the 556R was enough to scare me away from the platform.
Did you guys see that one?
sdrake100
Member
Offline
Posts: 1777
Feedback: 98% (56)
Link To This Post
Posted: 10/11/2012 9:46:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By HWI:
That MAC video on the 556R was enough to scare me away from the platform.
Did you guys see that one?


I did. I was expecting a lot more from the Sig in that video. Very disappointed. Granted, that was the first gen. Supposedly the bugs are fixed, but I'm still not sold after handling and shooting one.
Bennjammin
Online
Posts: 25
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 10/12/2012 6:48:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/12/2012 6:49:50 AM EST by Bennjammin]
Let's ask Gabe Suarez what he thinks on warrior talk!!!

In all seriousness, I have no idea how the Sig is... My converted Saiga works great though...

Has Military Arms Channel done a review on this Sig?
kja
Offline
Posts: 314
Feedback: 100% (10)
Link To This Post
Posted: 10/12/2012 8:13:21 AM EST
I think the american sig rifles are good rifles, they have been tested, police forces have adopted the 556 model in fully automatic and have been pleased with its performance for 10 years.. Personally for the price I think the scar has been a huge dissapointment for me because I have wanted one for a long time but its just got too many problems and cheap construction for me to put the money down yet.
HWI
Military
Offline
Posts: 578
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 10/12/2012 8:49:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bennjammin:
Has Military Arms Channel done a review on this Sig?


Yes. The rifle was basically a heap of crap(was the 556R that he tested).
He used to have 2 videos, but I can only find the second one.
http://youtu.be/nrObcZb_CCI
GunDisaster
Member
Offline
Posts: 5546
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 10/12/2012 9:15:09 AM EST
I love the original Sig 55X series rifles, but am not impressed with the new 556 rifles. I would probably go with an Arsenal AK over the new Sig rifles. I recently picked up an Arsenal 106UR Krinkov and SBR'ed it. It's a very light and handy rifle and has been reliable and accurate. I'm really loving the little Krinkov I checked out the new Sig 551-A1 SBR which looks a lot like the 552 which I liked, but the quality is no where near the original. It also feels a lot heavier which was a major turn off.
ftw13
Offline
Posts: 1624
Feedback: 100% (48)
Link To This Post
Posted: 10/12/2012 1:15:55 PM EST
by all accounts i've heard the sig is a giant piece of overpriced shit
Citadel-SC
Member
Offline
Posts: 7749
Feedback: 100% (4)
Link To This Post
Posted: 10/12/2012 2:12:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By ftw13:
by all accounts i've heard the sig is a giant piece of overpriced shit


I fingered one and this was my impression. I am sure the real ones are nice but I was not impressed.
Madcap72: Anyone that knows anything knows the AK is the best gun ever!
amadeus76
Offline
Posts: 196
Feedback: 100% (4)
Link To This Post
Posted: 10/12/2012 6:50:22 PM EST
Originally Posted By kja:
I think the american sig rifles are good rifles, they have been tested, police forces have adopted the 556 model in fully automatic and have been pleased with its performance for 10 years..


Not the same rifle... QC is night and day between the 2.

mustangduckk
Member
Offline
Posts: 1668
Feedback: 100% (28)
Link To This Post
Posted: 10/12/2012 6:52:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By sdrake100:
Originally Posted By HWI:
That MAC video on the 556R was enough to scare me away from the platform.
Did you guys see that one?


I did. I was expecting a lot more from the Sig in that video. Very disappointed. Granted, that was the first gen. Supposedly the bugs are fixed, but I'm still not sold after handling and shooting one.


Thats what turned me off.

That rifle (and many others from reviews I've seen) should never have left their factory. There is no excuse for that crap, even in a Gen1 platform. I'll keep my 7.62x39 rifles as the tried and true AKs.

If I need something more modular, I'll grab an AR.

Philosophy majors: asking the important questions. Such as, "WHY would you like fries with that?"
kja
Offline
Posts: 315
Feedback: 100% (10)
Link To This Post
Posted: 10/12/2012 11:19:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By amadeus76:
Originally Posted By kja:
I think the american sig rifles are good rifles, they have been tested, police forces have adopted the 556 model in fully automatic and have been pleased with its performance for 10 years..


Not the same rifle... QC is night and day between the 2.



How do you know this? Have you held one? My friend thats a cop let me shoot his fully 556 as well as a bushmaster and it seemed the same as the semi auto 556 at shooters to me but maybe alittle better fit and finish I guess.
amadeus76
Offline
Posts: 197
Feedback: 100% (4)
Link To This Post
Posted: 10/13/2012 12:57:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By kja:
Originally Posted By amadeus76:
Originally Posted By kja:
I think the american sig rifles are good rifles, they have been tested, police forces have adopted the 556 model in fully automatic and have been pleased with its performance for 10 years..


Not the same rifle... QC is night and day between the 2.



How do you know this? Have you held one? My friend thats a cop let me shoot his fully 556 as well as a bushmaster and it seemed the same as the semi auto 556 at shooters to me but maybe alittle better fit and finish I guess.


Yes I have... Next question.

  Previous Page
Page:  / 2
ARCHIVED ARCHIVED