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Ermac
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Posted: 6/16/2012 11:03:10 PM
Originally Posted By gsd2053:

Previously posted """"Love how people are freaking out about the POLISH BARRELS!"""""

I thought all AK BBL's have been banned from IMPORT?????

BBL US made??????? Or could it be all polish?

Polish 7.62x39 AK-47

• Polish Mfg
• (2) 30 RD Magazines
• Chrome-Lined Barrel
• Wooden Stock Set
• 16.25" Barrel
• 7 Piece Cleaning Kit

Only foreign barrels that come with parts kits are banned. Barrels that come included on an imported AK are legal.

poorman
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Posted: 6/16/2012 11:15:52 PM
Instead of freaking out, lets wait until Monday and talk to the retailers and see what they say. I am sure after a few phone calls the mystery will be solved. And when mine arrives this week I will post a detailed reveiw.
poorman
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Posted: 6/16/2012 11:19:46 PM
Originally Posted By Ermac:
Originally Posted By gsd2053:

Previously posted """"Love how people are freaking out about the POLISH BARRELS!"""""

I thought all AK BBL's have been banned from IMPORT?????

BBL US made??????? Or could it be all polish?

Polish 7.62x39 AK-47

• Polish Mfg
• (2) 30 RD Magazines
• Chrome-Lined Barrel
• Wooden Stock Set
• 16.25" Barrel
• 7 Piece Cleaning Kit

Only foreign barrels that come with parts kits are banned. Barrels that come included on an imported AK are legal.



Any foriegn barrel that can be used to make an "assault rifle" is banned from importation, this has no effect on foriegn barrels installed on legally imported rifles such as the these. That is why no AK barrels can be imported for assembly. It does make any sense, but neither do any of the other gun laws that apply to scary guns.
35mm_Shooter
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Posted: 6/16/2012 11:39:32 PM
Originally Posted By birddogz:
Source, or are you talking out of your ass.


That's his MO.

Verdict is still out, SDRAKE however is highly excitable and loves to jump to conclusions and make assumptions. I'll wait for the data to come in.

Other threads on this rifle:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_95/143840_Anyone_know_the_story_on_these_Polish_Aks_from_Classic_.html
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_95/143698_new_polish_mfg_ak_at_centerfire.html
ratfink57
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Posted: 6/16/2012 11:42:54 PM
[Last Edit: 6/16/2012 11:47:48 PM by ratfink57]
I don't care if its a so called parts gun. If its made by a small company in Poland, across town from FB, they must have people that worked at the plant, so you would think they would have a more experienced workforce that knows a thing or two about building AKs. That's more than you can say about the company's building them here in the U.S. We'll just have to see how these look and shoot I guess.

I will say the AD on ClassicF is a little misleading and outlandish. Like this quote;

"The Radom factory in Poland is renowned for producing some of the highest quality military firearms the world has ever known.
This rifle is no exception."

Good Gawd! That's a sales pitch from hell. Implying that they are made at the same plant as the Beryl.


On a side note; I don't have a problem with an AK made here with "old parts" by a skilled rifle builder(and I emphasis "Skilled" here). But having stuff made in Poland, Russia... ect. is cool.
Not a fan of AAC. I should have bought an Ops Inc.
poorman
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Posted: 6/17/2012 12:17:34 AM
Look closely at the Centerfire add, it appears that the bolt rails are installed using rivets, I hope this is not the case. I will be calling Classic Arms on Monday.
poorman
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Posted: 6/17/2012 12:20:10 AM
Originally Posted By ratfink57:
I don't care if its a so called parts gun. If its made by a small company in Poland, across town from FB, they must have people that worked at the plant, so you would think they would have a more experienced workforce that knows a thing or two about building AKs. That's more than you can say about the company's building them here in the U.S. We'll just have to see how these look and shoot I guess.

I will say the AD on ClassicF is a little misleading and outlandish. Like this quote;

"The Radom factory in Poland is renowned for producing some of the highest quality military firearms the world has ever known.
This rifle is no exception."

Good Gawd! That's a sales pitch from hell. Implying that they are made at the same plant as the Beryl.


On a side note; I don't have a problem with an AK made here with "old parts" by a skilled rifle builder(and I emphasis "Skilled" here). But having stuff made in Poland, Russia... ect. is cool.


Here is what is said in the Classic Arms add:

"These rifles were made from the gound up in Poland at the Radom factory to fill an order for a small Polish Exporter called Pioneer Arms."

ratfink57
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Posted: 6/17/2012 12:26:14 AM
[Last Edit: 6/17/2012 12:36:01 AM by ratfink57]
Originally Posted By poorman:
Originally Posted By ratfink57:
I don't care if its a so called parts gun. If its made by a small company in Poland, across town from FB, they must have people that worked at the plant, so you would think they would have a more experienced workforce that knows a thing or two about building AKs. That's more than you can say about the company's building them here in the U.S. We'll just have to see how these look and shoot I guess.

I will say the AD on ClassicF is a little misleading and outlandish. Like this quote;

"The Radom factory in Poland is renowned for producing some of the highest quality military firearms the world has ever known.
This rifle is no exception."

Good Gawd! That's a sales pitch from hell. Implying that they are made at the same plant as the Beryl.


On a side note; I don't have a problem with an AK made here with "old parts" by a skilled rifle builder(and I emphasis "Skilled" here). But having stuff made in Poland, Russia... ect. is cool.


Here is what is said in the Classic Arms add:

"These rifles were made from the gound up in Poland at the Radom factory to fill an order for a small Polish Exporter called Pioneer Arms."



I quoted directly from this page. Classic Arms
Not a fan of AAC. I should have bought an Ops Inc.
poorman
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Posted: 6/17/2012 12:32:43 AM
[Last Edit: 6/17/2012 12:33:38 AM by poorman]
Originally Posted By ratfink57:
Originally Posted By poorman:
Originally Posted By ratfink57:
I don't care if its a so called parts gun. If its made by a small company in Poland, across town from FB, they must have people that worked at the plant, so you would think they would have a more experienced workforce that knows a thing or two about building AKs. That's more than you can say about the company's building them here in the U.S. We'll just have to see how these look and shoot I guess.

I will say the AD on ClassicF is a little misleading and outlandish. Like this quote;

"The Radom factory in Poland is renowned for producing some of the highest quality military firearms the world has ever known.
This rifle is no exception."

Good Gawd! That's a sales pitch from hell. Implying that they are made at the same plant as the Beryl.


On a side note; I don't have a problem with an AK made here with "old parts" by a skilled rifle builder(and I emphasis "Skilled" here). But having stuff made in Poland, Russia... ect. is cool.


Here is what is said in the Classic Arms add:

"These rifles were made from the gound up in Poland at the Radom factory to fill an order for a small Polish Exporter called Pioneer Arms."



I quoted directly from this page. Classic Arms


Yes, that is in the description, this is from the Classic Arms home page:


Polish Stamped Receiver AK-47 Rifle
By Pioneer Arms
Note - We were originally only going to run this rifle here for a couple of days but after receiving so many comments and questions we have decided to leave it up through the end of the coming week. We also had a request for a photo of the manufacturers stamp so I have added that also. Note all serial #'s start with PAC - Pioneer Arms Corp.... Anyway, Thanks for your input and continued interest.


This is a little bit of an unusual Rifle of the Day being that this is a standard stock item. We typically post odds and ends or something different here. But in this case, I wanted to use this forum to highlight this new AK and answer some questions we have been getting concerning what I personally think is a very high quality rifle. I also wanted to offer you all a special one time bonus with this purchase.

We received these rifles in from the importer and posted them to the site around one week ago. Since then we have received many questions and even concerns regarding them. People have asked, Are they parts rifles ? Do they all look alike ? Why should I buy this rifle as opposed to any other rifle on the site ? How can they legally import this rifle? Why are they more expensive ? Etc... We even had an e-mail with a very angry tone that said we were trying to pass off parts rifles as new and we
should basically be ashamed of ourselves. Well that is not the case, and honestly, that is just not how we roll. Even so it has become clear that a really good discription of these rifles and their history is needed.

So, as they say down at the horse barn, Here is the Scoop.

These rifles were made from the gound up in Poland at the Radom factory to fill an order for a small Polish Exporter called Pioneer Arms. The initial batch of rifles built was very small and I can only assume that the exporter wants to test the U.S. market on these at this price point to see how they would go. Labor and Materials are a little more expensive in Poland but the quality is usually worth it. Based on the quality I see in these rifles I don't think the price will be an issue. They are very nice... But more on that later.
Image done in Grey Scale for Clarity with Flash - Actual Finish is Polished Gun Blue


Under current U.S. importation laws regarding firearms only rifles that qualify as " Sporting Arms " are allowed to be imported. The primary criteria in that is the rifle cannot be imported if it has a mag capacity of more than 10 rounds. As such, these rifles, much like the Romanian WASR-10's and the Bulgarian SLR's are imported as an intact ready to fire rifle but with a narrow magazine well and a 5 or 10 round magazine. Once the rifles are stateside, the importers store them in a bonded warehouse where they are brought into compliance with what is commonly referred to as Section 922r. Basically sec 922r states that for a rifle to be considered U.S. Made it must contain a certain number of U.S. Parts. Once that part count is met, then the rifle can legally accept high cap ( Above 10 Round ) mags and drums as well as having military characteristics like muzzle breaks etc.

In the case of this Pioneer Arms Polish AK Rifle the U.S. Parts added and or replaced are as follows, the Polish trigger group is replaced with a U.S. made G-2 3 piece trigger set by Tapco that is actually smoother than the original, the muzzle nut is removed and a U.S. made 45 degree compensator is added , the original grip is replaced by a U.S. made Molot style pistol grip, and the rifle is fitted with a U.S. made 30 round mag.

Once the internal parts are added and the rifle has been brought into compliance, the magazine well is opened up ( typically on a CNC machine ) and the rifle will now legally accept high capacity AK mags.
The remainder of the rifle in it's entirety including the receiver, barrel, furniture, and all other parts of the base rifle with the exception of the U.S. parts listed above were manufactured and assembled in Radom Poland.

Now to the quality. Polish made firearms have long had a reputation for extremely high quality workmanship and attention to detail. This rifle is no exception. The fit and finish are very nice. The wooden furniture has an expensive heavy look with a deep gloss finish. The blue is really consistant and highly polished. The rivets are all nicely seated and smooth with none of the gouges or hammer marks some times found on others. The action is smooth and the trigger is crisp. Bores and chambers are chrome lined. To sum it up, just a really nice AK. I would compare this rifle quality wise to the Bulgarian Stamped AK rifle but at a much lower price point.
So does it justify the extra money. Well, It depends. I have always contended that an AK, is an AK, is an AK. By that I mean that from the lowest priced one to the highest priced one virtually all AK rifles will throw a bullet down range reliably, at a high rate of fire, with a fair degree of accuracy. After that the differences are simply in fit, finish and general cosmetics. I like to call it the difference between a Chevrolet and Cadillac. Both will get you to the same place at the same time, but one will be a little more enjoyable to drive and have a little more style. Our baseline Romanian rifles are Chevrolets. They are rugged, reliable, highly affordable, and they function and shoot great....Still, there is a step up, and that would be to the Polish AK. These Polish rifles are Cadillacs and for a little difference in cost some some folks would rather ride in style. If you are a Cadillac Man, then this is your rifle.

Rifle is Semi-Auto, 7.62x39 caliber and comes with one 30 round Mag

As I said before, when mine arrives I will post a detailed reveiw with photos.




ratfink57
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Posted: 6/17/2012 12:51:07 AM
[Last Edit: 6/17/2012 12:53:27 AM by ratfink57]
That doesn't contradict my statements at all. Whether ground up constitutes making gasblocks from steel stock or using surplus new parts doesn't matter to me. Actually, I think I would prefer old surplus parts. The stuff i have been getting from Apex and others have been of excellent quality.

Still.. they never say Fabryka Broni "Łucznik". They just keep repeating "The Radom factory".
Not a fan of AAC. I should have bought an Ops Inc.
sdrake100
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Posted: 6/17/2012 1:02:00 AM
[Last Edit: 6/17/2012 1:03:39 AM by sdrake100]
Some of you guys are really square and need to lighten up. No rules against speculation or guessing based on information available. I think Montrala made it pretty clear what these types of rifles would turn out to be, although nothing is set in stone. My opinion is my opinion. If you don't like it, don't read it.
poorman
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Posted: 6/17/2012 12:30:18 PM
I just sent an email off to Pioneer Arms asking if these rifles were made by FB Radom, or in house, so lets wait and see what their reply is.
randeeak47
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Posted: 6/17/2012 2:17:35 PM
honestley, who cares its an AKM semi auto, I see nothing special on it other than a the reciever and a few other parts......its no differant than an Arsenal, W.A.S.R,ect other than some cosmetic issues, just my x2 cents. The pissing matches over barrels, blah blah blah, needs to stop, some of you remeind me of two nerds argueing over Star Wars
Krater
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Posted: 6/17/2012 2:19:11 PM
Originally Posted By randeeak47:
honestley, who cares its an AKM semi auto, I see nothing special on it other than a the reciever and a few other parts......its no differant than an Arsenal, W.A.S.R,ect other than some cosmetic issues, just my x2 cents. The pissing matches over barrels, blah blah blah, needs to stop, some of you remeind me of two nerds argueing over Star Wars


Well...you know how it is. Some men like blondes, some like brunettes, and some don't care as long as they are still moving around.
birddogz
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Posted: 6/17/2012 2:55:25 PM
Originally Posted By randeeak47:
honestley, who cares its an AKM semi auto, I see nothing special on it other than a the reciever and a few other parts......its no differant than an Arsenal, W.A.S.R,ect other than some cosmetic issues, just my x2 cents. The pissing matches over barrels, blah blah blah, needs to stop, some of you remeind me of two nerds argueing over Star Wars


Thanks for your input, this is a gun forum what should we discuss if not the barrels, receivers, cosmetic issues pertaining to the guns aesthetics.
Please enlighten us wise one.
Lumpy196
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Posted: 6/17/2012 4:25:11 PM
[Last Edit: 6/17/2012 4:27:53 PM by Lumpy196]
Originally Posted By randeeak47:
honestley, who cares its an AKM semi auto, I see nothing special on it other than a the reciever and a few other parts......its no differant than an Arsenal, W.A.S.R,ect other than some cosmetic issues, just my x2 cents. The pissing matches over barrels, blah blah blah, needs to stop, some of you remeind me of two nerds argueing over Star Wars




Yes, no discussing the attributes of firearms here.


Some people like to buy quality. Some people worry about more than just how good a gun makes them look standing in front of the bathroom mirror.

You not caring has absolutely no fucking bearing on the discussion.
Originally Posted By RustedAce:

Sometimes you just have to be a dick. Justice demands it.
1saxman
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Posted: 6/17/2012 6:51:02 PM
I think every AK guy should have at least one bona fide European-made AK. There is no substitute. If I didn't already have an FEG SA85M I would be in for one of these. Obviously the receiver is a newly-made semi-auto one since the Polish military did not use SA AKs. I like the fact that the receiver is marked Polish-made, which would seal the deal for me. The fact that the rifle has to be converted for 922 is unfortunate but at the same time its the only way to get a new European rifle here in the USA. The law is what it is, and I doubt if these restrictions will ever be lifted. Quality should be mil-standard, with no canted parts or any of the other nightmarish defects we have been getting with USA remanufactured parts kits. Of course you'll have to accept the non-mil polished/blued finish, but this will grow on you. Nothing wrong with taking a 'pretty' AK to the range - I know my FEG gets a lot of compliments and it has the glossy finish - but if that really bugged you, there's always paint!
ratfink57
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Posted: 6/17/2012 6:59:18 PM
Originally Posted By 1saxman:
I think every AK guy should have at least one bona fide European-made AK. There is no substitute. If I didn't already have an FEG SA85M I would be in for one of these. Obviously the receiver is a newly-made semi-auto one since the Polish military did not use SA AKs. I like the fact that the receiver is marked Polish-made, which would seal the deal for me. The fact that the rifle has to be converted for 922 is unfortunate but at the same time its the only way to get a new European rifle here in the USA. The law is what it is, and I doubt if these restrictions will ever be lifted. Quality should be mil-standard, with no canted parts or any of the other nightmarish defects we have been getting with USA remanufactured parts kits. Of course you'll have to accept the non-mil polished/blued finish, but this will grow on you. Nothing wrong with taking a 'pretty' AK to the range - I know my FEG gets a lot of compliments and it has the glossy finish - but if that really bugged you, there's always paint!


Sadly, canted sights and gas block were common on imported barrel assemblies before the barrel ban so it's not just a US reman thing.


Not a fan of AAC. I should have bought an Ops Inc.
poorman
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Posted: 6/19/2012 6:00:42 PM
[Last Edit: 6/19/2012 6:04:01 PM by poorman]
Rifle has arrived.

Initial impression is very good, finish is awsome. Yes, it does have surplus parts, all parts have different serials. However, they are all in perfect condition. Receiver has the Y! Wood is very nice, front lower hand guard is from a milled AK. Fit of the rear stock into the receiver could be better. Sights are not canted. Tapco mag fits perfect, and there is the problem, mine will not accept new steel Polish mag!!!! But, I think I know why, look at the photo of the mag well, there is no recess like the AK74 receiver piece in the photo. I have not fired it, I will post a reveiw when I do. I am crap at photos, so tell me if you want any specific photos. Rifle comes with nice cleaning kit and crapco mag. Mine also came in a new Bulldog rifle bag, but I don't think they include those now.














poorman
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Posted: 6/19/2012 6:16:28 PM
I have found why the Polish mag will not fit. Look at the photo below, the sheetmetel piece that looks like it has been ground down above the mag dimple was not ground down enough to clearence the Polish mag. I am going to grind this down some more and try again. I am sure this was put there to make only single stack mags fit originally.

poorman
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Posted: 6/19/2012 6:56:06 PM
[Last Edit: 6/19/2012 7:05:23 PM by poorman]
After a little fine tuning with a dremel everything seems to be fine and surplus mags fit and function. I will hold final judgement until after a range session, all parts are tight as they would be in a new rifle. We will see how things are after they have worn in a little. And as ugly as the hand grip is, it is very comfortable, I may keep it.
birddogz
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Posted: 6/19/2012 7:59:22 PM
Nice looking rifle, looking forward to your range report.

What's the condition of the barrel?
poorman
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Posted: 6/19/2012 9:04:55 PM
[Last Edit: 6/19/2012 9:06:21 PM by poorman]
The barrel appears like new, there was powder residue on the muzzle from test firing, but the bore is crisp and shiny. Thses must be selling well, my fun store owner told me that another customer ordered one and picked it up today as well.
Crsswift70
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Posted: 6/19/2012 9:51:39 PM
The akforum has another review of the rifle with many more pictures. Same basic things as yours. His however had the ramp in to the mag well. Mag well was tight and some mags fit, some didn't. He reported some caught half way on the catch, which is a problem i had with another rifle. Filing the catch down a little fixed that. We'll see what he does.
poorman
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Posted: 6/19/2012 10:17:11 PM
[Last Edit: 6/19/2012 10:30:51 PM by poorman]
Originally Posted By Crsswift70:
The akforum has another review of the rifle with many more pictures. Same basic things as yours. His however had the ramp in to the mag well. Mag well was tight and some mags fit, some didn't. He reported some caught half way on the catch, which is a problem i had with another rifle. Filing the catch down a little fixed that. We'll see what he does.


The mag catch did catch a little, it just made the mag a little difficult to remove, but installed easily. The biggest problem was with the sheetmetal I had to grind down. That prevented the steel mags from even getting close to the mag catch. I tried to register over there to chat with that member, I think I saw him at the fun store I go to. But, my email address is not allowed, what gives????
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