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Molōn Labe!
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Posted: 3/9/2012 5:42:33 PM EST
Help...first AK.


I was getting ready to pull the trigger on a M70ab2...then saw this...



From Century's Page.

Made in the same factory that produced top quality rifles for former Yugoslavia like the M70B1 and M70AB2, our newly manufactured PAP rifles are the civilian version of the M70 series. These Belgrade beauties are the latest imports from the world famous Zastava factory. Century is proud to offer 4 styles of the PAP rifles. This one is the HI-CAP classic full wood stock with a pistol grip. Features a Picatinny rail built into the receiver cover for easy mounting of your favorite accessories. Comes with two 30 rd. mags. Barrel: 16.25" with a 1:10 twist, Overall: 36.25", Weight: 7.7 lbs. Condition: New.


Help...first AK. I like the Yugo, but this PAP is growing on me. I am not big on the rail however.

Is this PAP rifle a smear or good to go? Thanks in advance.
Si vis pacem, para bellum!
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Link Posted: 3/9/2012 6:17:00 PM EST
Anything made by Zastava is high quality. Zastava guns remind me of FEG and CZ. This particular item is obviously not mil spec in every detail, but most likely is a well-built AK that will work and shoot straight. A standard action cover is cheap, but depending on how stable that rail is, it may be something you'll eventually want anyway. That and the buttstock are the only non-mil things I see. I wonder if the hand guards are Bakelite? :) How much is that PAP Hi-Cap? That's sort of relevant to the question. If I didn't already have a factory-built FEG I would be very interested in that.
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Link Posted: 3/9/2012 6:47:21 PM EST
J&G


I wonder if the buttstock can be changed out? I think PAPs usually have slanted receivers.
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Link Posted: 3/9/2012 6:59:17 PM EST
Never seen that before, looks pretty nice. Anyone have one?
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Link Posted: 3/9/2012 8:59:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/9/2012 8:59:46 PM EST by sdrake100]
These have the straight cut receivers! And they're genuine Serbian. AWESOME! Would be an awesome project. Keep these imports coming!
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Link Posted: 3/9/2012 9:57:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/9/2012 10:01:01 PM EST by chris-gonzalez-tx]
The wood on that beauty is gorgeous
The price doesn't seem too bad either.
I'm sorry, though.. I'd ditch the picatinny rail cover!

EDIT: I've seen Zastava's at the gun shows in my city before, albeit the single stack, sporter stock configurations. The finish on those rifles were top notch! I didn't get much of a chance to play with it, but it looked exceptionally built.
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Link Posted: 3/10/2012 6:00:31 AM EST
So...Yugo or PAP is the question...

The Yugo is a 1mm receiver which doesn't bother me and it also has the Green Mountain barrel.

Thoughts?
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Link Posted: 3/10/2012 6:46:14 AM EST
Depending on price, or let's say with price not a factor, I'd have to go with the Zastava. 'Total factory built' in an AK47 factory means a lot and every AK owner should experience that difference at some point. This is why I tend to be a curmudgeon about the USA builds - they're just not in the same league with a real Eastern European factory AK. They have been making AKs from scratch for over 50 years - they know what they're doing. There is no comparison to a used military kit without receiver or barrel, cobbled together with a USA receiver and barrel with barrel crooked in receiver and twisted gas block and hastily painted. This is what we have been paying through the nose for. I paid good money for an 'AMD65' that I had to work on quite a bit, and it'll never be a straight gun - I had to force the rear sight over to the left because I ran out of adjustment with the front sight, replace the crummy two-piece extension brake with the Tapco unit and have it welded, install my own sling swivel, work on the magazine guide rails to stop it from gouging mags, etc. Get this AK now if you can. If you must have a kit build, make that your next one.
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Link Posted: 3/10/2012 7:45:45 AM EST
These are brand new to the market. I have yet to see a single review anywhere. Should have one shortly though: Link (he has the same rifle coming from Centerfire)


A 9mm might expand to .45, but a .45 will never shrink to 9mm.
Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement.
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Link Posted: 3/10/2012 7:49:10 AM EST
Does this come with a Chrome lined Barrel?
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Link Posted: 3/10/2012 7:53:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By purevl2:
Does this come with a Chrome lined Barrel?

If they follow the previous PAPs already here, no chrome.
A 9mm might expand to .45, but a .45 will never shrink to 9mm.
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Link Posted: 3/10/2012 7:54:26 AM EST
I think the jury is still out on PAP conversions. The sporter uses a single feed bolt. Not sure if it's changed out and headspaced during conversions.
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Link Posted: 3/10/2012 7:59:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/10/2012 8:01:57 AM EST by Liquidmetal]

Originally Posted By 35mm_Shooter:
I think the jury is still out on PAP conversions. The sporter uses a single feed bolt. Not sure if it's changed out and headspaced during conversions.

It all depends on how Century is importing these. Can't assume they are importing them in the same configuration as EAA. That's why we need a user review to confirm some things.
A 9mm might expand to .45, but a .45 will never shrink to 9mm.
Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement.
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Link Posted: 3/10/2012 9:18:46 AM EST
Thanks for the links fellas.

I might have to take the plunge. I really like the Yugo M70AB2T though. Maybe I should pull an Arfcom and get both.

I am going to make some calls on Monday and maybe get some more info f I can.

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Link Posted: 3/10/2012 9:45:12 AM EST
Did anybody get a price yet? I'm not registered with Century. As for the barrels, I was expecting chrome-lined, but then the Yugo military rifles don't have it, so since they're still made by Zastava, maybe they are not. Also, I was under the impression that they were imported finished. If the mag wells have to be opened up here and possibly other converting done, it would alter my high opinion to some extent. I guess I am premature with my praise, but I still would expect a very high-quality rifle.
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Link Posted: 3/10/2012 10:46:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By 1saxman:
Did anybody get a price yet? I'm not registered with Century. As for the barrels, I was expecting chrome-lined, but then the Yugo military rifles don't have it, so since they're still made by Zastava, maybe they are not. Also, I was under the impression that they were imported finished. If the mag wells have to be opened up here and possibly other converting done, it would alter my high opinion to some extent. I guess I am premature with my praise, but I still would expect a very high-quality rifle.


I'm fairly certain that all AKs enter the country with a reduced magwell or none at all (just a pilot hole).

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Link Posted: 3/10/2012 10:51:40 AM EST
My hopes are really high with this rifle. This will be an absolute must buy for me if the price is indeed $650 like the J&G link shows.
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Link Posted: 3/10/2012 10:53:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By fike:
Originally Posted By 1saxman:
Did anybody get a price yet? I'm not registered with Century. As for the barrels, I was expecting chrome-lined, but then the Yugo military rifles don't have it, so since they're still made by Zastava, maybe they are not. Also, I was under the impression that they were imported finished. If the mag wells have to be opened up here and possibly other converting done, it would alter my high opinion to some extent. I guess I am premature with my praise, but I still would expect a very high-quality rifle.


I'm fairly certain that all AKs enter the country with a reduced magwell or none at all (just a pilot hole).



IIRC the rifles that are imported with a factory barrel must come in as sporter versions. I don't think being able to accept a

standard cap mag is considered sporter, so they are probably imported with a single stack mag well, but what do I know.

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Link Posted: 3/10/2012 10:56:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By BigAKFan:
My hopes are really high with this rifle. This will be an absolute must buy for me if the price is indeed $650 like the J&G link shows.


Meh, no chrome lining, no bayo lug, converted by CAI, etc...

It's about $150 overpriced IMO
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Link Posted: 3/10/2012 10:56:25 AM EST
Somebody over on the Gunboards forum has one: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?258796-Zastava-hi-cap-AK

Pics from the link:








A 9mm might expand to .45, but a .45 will never shrink to 9mm.
Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement.
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Link Posted: 3/10/2012 11:11:12 AM EST
Looks like a winner to me. $650 isn't a bad price point.
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Link Posted: 3/10/2012 11:11:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By 35mm_Shooter:
Originally Posted By BigAKFan:
My hopes are really high with this rifle. This will be an absolute must buy for me if the price is indeed $650 like the J&G link shows.


Meh, no chrome lining, no bayo lug, converted by CAI, etc...

It's about $150 overpriced IMO


I missed the no bayo lug. I'm seeing wasrs go for close to $500 everywhere I see.

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Link Posted: 3/10/2012 12:13:37 PM EST
The reference to a rumored .308 version in the Gunboards thread was enough for me to fire off an e-mail to Century to confirm or deny said rifle. If it's anything like a Zastava M77, I'll be all over it like stink on sh*t. I'm all about the DMR-type rifles these days and a .308 version would be a good start for another rifle project.
A 9mm might expand to .45, but a .45 will never shrink to 9mm.
Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement.
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Link Posted: 3/10/2012 1:56:50 PM EST
There's already a VEPR .308 in nice wood, in two versions.
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Link Posted: 3/10/2012 2:00:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1saxman:
There's already a VEPR .308 in nice wood, in two versions.

Been there, done that. I already own two .308 Veprs. Time for something different.
A 9mm might expand to .45, but a .45 will never shrink to 9mm.
Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement.
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Link Posted: 3/10/2012 2:58:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By BigAKFan:
Originally Posted By 35mm_Shooter:
Originally Posted By BigAKFan:
My hopes are really high with this rifle. This will be an absolute must buy for me if the price is indeed $650 like the J&G link shows.


Meh, no chrome lining, no bayo lug, converted by CAI, etc...

It's about $150 overpriced IMO


I missed the no bayo lug. I'm seeing wasrs go for close to $500 everywhere I see.



What is that protuberance under the gas block that looks like a bayonet lug? Am I seeing things?
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Link Posted: 3/10/2012 3:19:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By 35mm_Shooter:
Originally Posted By BigAKFan:
My hopes are really high with this rifle. This will be an absolute must buy for me if the price is indeed $650 like the J&G link shows.


Meh, no chrome lining, no bayo lug, converted by CAI, etc...

It's about $150 overpriced IMO


Like with most new arrivals, prices are usually high and then fall in about a year.
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Link Posted: 3/10/2012 5:18:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/10/2012 6:48:30 PM EST by Blofeld]
If this was imported in the sporter configuration like the EAA PAP's then there is far too much important work to do to that rifle to produce the final product to trust the drunk monkey's at Century. Hopefully they had a closer to final product configuration on import than the EAA guns.
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Link Posted: 3/10/2012 5:44:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/10/2012 5:58:13 PM EST by BigAKFan]
nvm

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Link Posted: 3/10/2012 7:37:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By Blofeld:
If this was imported in the sporter configuration like the EAA PAP's then there is far too much important work to do to that rifle to produce the final product to trust the drunk monkey's at Century. Hopefully they had a closer to final product configuration on import than the EAA guns.


Yea hopefully they come into the country with the correct trunnion and bolt. The magwell isn't a big deal but I worry if they start "remanufacturing" other things. Otherwise, a factory AK with minimal stateside modifications would be a hit and could really compete with arsenal offering especially for the more traditional guys.


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Link Posted: 3/10/2012 11:55:16 PM EST
i don't know if they will get any cheaper, i bought my pap a month ago for 379 at a local shop, i bought the first one they got in and the next week they were already 425. i converted it to double stack though it doesn't just include opening the magwell and changing the bolt. you also need to grind or mill out the width of the trunnion where the front of the mag goes as well as raise the underside of the locking lugs a little bit. the bullet guide works well but there's a blocking bar as part of it to block a regular bolt that needs to be shaved off (a small ball stone on a dremel works well) i used a spare east german bolt i had laying around that checked out fine with hs gauges on my conversion. in fact i never even fired it as a single stack lol. on a positive note the front sight is already drilled for a detent plunger and the muzzle is at the right diameter for threading so i just hand threaded my muzzle and it worked well. converting these on your own is not for the faint of heart but once in double stack config they are awesome ak's also the only other ak's i have that are comparable with accuracy are my nhm-91 (norinco) ak 74 (build) and my m76 (build) actually comparing this to the old 76 isn't really fair for the pap.

hope that helps

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Link Posted: 3/11/2012 4:49:33 AM EST
This rifle in question is a doublestack correct?
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Link Posted: 3/11/2012 6:29:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By Darkhawk:
Thanks for the links fellas.

I might have to take the plunge. I really like the Yugo M70AB2T though. Maybe I should pull an Arfcom and get both.

I am going to make some calls on Monday and maybe get some more info f I can.



I have a M70AB2 with the 1.6 mm receiver. Century/Zastava. Its heavier than the "T" model but I LOVE IT!
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Link Posted: 3/12/2012 9:57:58 AM EST
Anyone got one of these? I am hoping that century isn't doing to much work on these!
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Link Posted: 3/12/2012 7:10:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By 1saxman:
Originally Posted By BigAKFan:
Originally Posted By 35mm_Shooter:
Originally Posted By BigAKFan:
My hopes are really high with this rifle. This will be an absolute must buy for me if the price is indeed $650 like the J&G link shows.


Meh, no chrome lining, no bayo lug, converted by CAI, etc...

It's about $150 overpriced IMO


I missed the no bayo lug. I'm seeing wasrs go for close to $500 everywhere I see.



What is that protuberance under the gas block that looks like a bayonet lug? Am I seeing things?


I agree. Those sure look like bayo lugs.

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Link Posted: 3/12/2012 7:31:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By RU1NER:
Originally Posted By 1saxman:
Originally Posted By BigAKFan:
Originally Posted By 35mm_Shooter:
Originally Posted By BigAKFan:
My hopes are really high with this rifle. This will be an absolute must buy for me if the price is indeed $650 like the J&G link shows.


Meh, no chrome lining, no bayo lug, converted by CAI, etc...

It's about $150 overpriced IMO


I missed the no bayo lug. I'm seeing wasrs go for close to $500 everywhere I see.



What is that protuberance under the gas block that looks like a bayonet lug? Am I seeing things?


I agree. Those sure look like bayo lugs.



Not a bayo lug


Bayo lug
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Link Posted: 3/12/2012 7:49:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By 35mm_Shooter:
Originally Posted By RU1NER:
Originally Posted By 1saxman:
Originally Posted By BigAKFan:
Originally Posted By 35mm_Shooter:
Originally Posted By BigAKFan:
My hopes are really high with this rifle. This will be an absolute must buy for me if the price is indeed $650 like the J&G link shows.


Meh, no chrome lining, no bayo lug, converted by CAI, etc...

It's about $150 overpriced IMO


I missed the no bayo lug. I'm seeing wasrs go for close to $500 everywhere I see.



What is that protuberance under the gas block that looks like a bayonet lug? Am I seeing things?


I agree. Those sure look like bayo lugs.



Not a bayo lug
http://www.jgsales.com/images/6775-caiyugozastavaakm-47papm70rifle762x39caliberwithpistolgripan­dwoodstock-s2.JPG

Bayo lug
http://tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru/media/sg010.jpg


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Link Posted: 3/13/2012 4:17:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By Darkhawk:
This rifle in question is a doublestack correct?


Yes, double stack standard military AK-47 7.62x39 magazine.
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Link Posted: 3/13/2012 8:00:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/13/2012 8:09:01 AM EST by Citadel-SC]
This looks promising. I would change out the gas block, top cover, pistol grip, and add the night sights, cleaning rod, and yugo side rail.
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Link Posted: 3/13/2012 10:48:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/13/2012 10:52:13 AM EST by Liquidmetal]

Originally Posted By Citadel-SC:

and yugo side rail.

From a functional standpoint, I would skip the traditional Yugo rail and use a standard AKM side rail. Your options are so limited with the Yugo rail.

At least with the early PAPs that had side rails, they used a more realistic side rail than what has been typically offered in the past.
A 9mm might expand to .45, but a .45 will never shrink to 9mm.
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Link Posted: 3/13/2012 10:52:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By Liquidmetal:

Originally Posted By Citadel-SC:

and yugo side rail.

From a functional standpoint, I would skip the Yugo rail and use a standard AKM side rail. Your options are so limited with the Yugo rail.


Yea I know, but I have always wanted a Yugo with a Zrak M89 on it.
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