I am in the market for an AK.
This rifle is intended for Home defense in a SHTF event.

Right now I have a 20inch Colt HBAR A2, Glock 23 that I carry for work. Glock 21, Ruger 10-22, Remington 30-06 bolt action.

I have been thinking of 3 rifles.

SGL 21, I love the punch of the 7.62x 39mm. I could see it being a very effective Hog/Deer gun with some of Hornadys new ammo. I also love its ability to punch through light cover.

Sgl 31,  I trained with the 5.45 round at FT Campbell in the 101st  will preping to go overseas. It would be the cheapest route route for ammo, and I love the low recoil impluse just in case I use this rifle as a hand out weapon .

SLR106, At 699 on Atlantic this seems like a no brainer to go with my HBAR,  same ammo.  But its the ammo that concerns me as its  the most expensive to stockpile and the mags are the most expensive.
I know all 3 rounds are proven man stopers, some more then others in certain situations and hit locations.  

My location If I have to bug in would be located in the burbs with no shots over 150 meters.  If I had to bug out to my retreat location this area is heavily wooded with shots of  0-50 meters in the woods but if there are wheat fileds that would test the range of all 3 rounds.

any ways I want to make my comand decision in the next day or 2. any thoughts or advice is welcomed.
Thanks in advance.

1179

With the popularity of the SKS and the boom in 7.62x39 AKs I strongly lean 7.62x39.  It's been around and will be around.  The 5.45 is nice and I want one just to have down the line.  But there's no U.S. ammo in the caliber.  A stroke of the pen at Federal level will dry up the cheap overseas supply in a heartbeat.  Lots of US 7.62x39 around for the advantage there.  If you already have a 5.56 then you're covered for longer range accuracy and an AK in that caliber just doesn't seem right to me.  Not saying there's anything wrong with it, but for me it's just a mismatch. If there is a SHTF which ammo are you more likely to come across and which parts and mags are more readily available that will work in your gun?  Shooting through barriers, like you mentioned, is only going to be effective with 7.62x39.  For me at least everything points to 7.62x39.  But my decision isn't necessarily yours.  In ten years I'll likely have a 5.45 AK assuming the ammo is available still.  But if I ever have the 5.56 impulse an AR would fill that role for me.

I'm a huge fan of consolidation. If I were you, given the information you provided I'd consider selling the Hbar and G21 and  get a couple of certified WASRs, mags and ammo as well as get a second Glock in .40 and keep the bolt '06 and .22.

Here's why:

It sounds like most of your potential uses would be for under 150 yds and that is perfectly within the 7.62x39 capability for accuracy on man(defense) and deer(food) sized targets. Also, you mentioned punch through brush/light cover which that round is good for as well.   Ammo is plentiful and, although ammo isn't as cheap as the 5.45 it's much cheaper than 5.56. Also mags are very cheap and plentiful. And not to start a shit storm but under a potential low maintenance SHTF scenario the AK would be a better platform, IMO.

Get rid of the G21 in favor of a Glock in the same caliber as your duty weapon. Mags and ammo would be interchangeable.

Keep the '06 for the wheat fields and the .22 for small game.

Just my thoughts.

Although I personally prefer the 5.45x39mm for my own uses... The information provided in your post suggest to me that an AK in 7.62x39mm would be right along the lines of what you are looking for.

 Shots within 150 yard or less, the need to potentially punch through light cover material/brush, a desire to spend less on the ammo than 5.56x45mm ammo costs... These are all qualities that the 7.62x39mm AK does very well. Mags and other accessories for an AK in 7.62x39mm are also abundant, and inexpensive.

 As I said, I personally prefer the 5.45x39mm AK. But, that's only because it fits my needs and desires.For what you have stated your intended purposes are, I think the 7.62x39mm is the ideal fit.

 Under no circumstances would I recomend an AK in 5.56/.223 caliber, except for a collector who is simply looking to add to their collection. Mags are harder to find, and expensive. Depending upon which version you get, and what particular mags it requires... Some can be less reliable than AK's in 7.62x39mm, or 5.45x39mm. Also, I am confident that an AR in 5.56x45mm has a better potential for long-range accuracy that the AK platform has to offer. If a 5.56 is what you want, the AR you already own is tough to beat.

I agree and I am leaning towards 7.62x39mm, but I'm hung up on the cheap cost on ammo for the 5.45.  I'm waying in my mind on if more is better with 5.45 to trump the 7. 62 ability to punch through  light cover.

While I favor the 7.62 caliber, rube79 posted pictures which showed that the surplus 5.45 with the steel core bullet penetrates cover about as well as the lead core commercial 7.62.
If you are really concerned about penetrating cover you need steel core 7.62.

Interesting

This is my opinion as well based on ad hoc range testing over the years. I think it's true military grade 7.62 is better at intermediate barrier penetration than 7N6, but 7N6 seems to be as good or better than commercial 7.62 like Wolf or Golden Tiger.




Z

No shotgun?
0-50 yards - a 12 gauge is an awesome weapon for defense

As far as an AK in 5,45 or 7,62...
You already have a high velocity, sub caliber rifle - The Colt in 5,56mm

Get the SGL-21 in 7,62x39mm

[/quote]

I agree and I am leaning towards 7.62x39mm, but I'm hung up on the cheap cost on ammo for the 5.45.  I'm waying in my mind on if more is better with 5.45 to trump the 7. 62 ability to punch through  light cover.

[/quote]


As stated in my original response to this thread.... I personally prefer the AK in 5.45x39mm. My AK-74 is my go-to weapon. It is the one that sleeps in my nightstand (folded) at night. It doesn't miss a range trip with me. It has never failed me, has essentially no recoil, is accurate at any distance I'd care to take a shot from, is light enough to not be a burden to carry with a sling for extended periods of time, requires minimal maintenence, and I have full confidence in its' ability to put a hostile foe (2, or 4 legged) flat on their ass.

As for penetration... I have personally put Russian surplus rounds through both sides of a junked out early 80's model Chevy Caprice at the range. That's enough penetration for me, but I acknowledge that the 7.62x39 may penetrate better. For me... I will grab my CETME if I need more penetrative ability than my AK-74 can provide.

I have no concerns about ammo drying up. But, that is only because I have ordered enough Russian surplus fro AIM, to last me for the rest of my life (I doubt that my son will ever run out of what will be left when I'm gone).

If you can live with the tradeoff of slightly less penetrative ability... I think the 74 is the superior weapon in almost every other category. Stack the mags and ammo deep. If penetration of cover materials is your main concern... 7.62x39 is what I'd choose.

Okay guys I went with the SGL21.
I ordered it last night from AIM.
as soon as its here I'll posts some pic

The reason I went with the 21 over the 31 is because of my location. While I love the low recoil impulse of the 5.45 and its effects on target, I needed a round that will get through light brush and trees better. Most shots in the woods here are 75 meters or less and thick with light trees and " Wait A Minute" vines.
I just think the 7.62 although more expensive will serve me better in that situation.

So now that I have rifle and mags on the way from AIM, its time for me to look at Chest rig options. I did some googling last night.
Is there a chest rig out there that stands out in durability? I would like it to hold 8 mags.

My advice is to get the rifle, magazines and ammunition before you buy a rig. Load up eight magazines and weigh them.
Eight loaded 30 shot magazines is quite a load.

By a 3 or 6 cell cheapo chicom rig first and experiment with it before you drop big money on name brands. Once you get used to the chicom and feel good with it you'll know what you want out of your next rig.

Doesn't make sense to me to spend hundreds on something high-end if you're not really familiar with the AK in the first place.




Z

That's like carrying another rifle.

After searching for about a month for the type of rig I wanted, I settled on the OSOE Micro AK/m4 rig.



IF you must carry 8 mags, OSOE makes bigger rigs.



This is my thread on the type of rigs people use for ak's.

The advice on buying a cheap chicom carrier to experiment with is good. The can be had for $20ish. Quality stuff isn't going to be cheap. I shelled out $100+ in my micro rig. The full size AK/m4 rig is $300.

Most people won't end up using these rigs, and they'll end up stuffed in a closet. If you get the chicom and like it and the ak platform, get something nicer then. Assuming you want something nicer.

HSGI tacos are also nice, but pricey.

For now, focus on getting mags and ammo. Get to know it, and then look at your needs and build a rig around that.

I have a 5,45 gun, its awesome. Ammo is cheap, it runs like crazy, and very accurate.

I've owned several 7,62 aks, and finally thought my preferred caliber of choice would be 5,45......it is...when it comes to an ak platform. So I sold them all.

Picked up a spikes middy, played with the AR folks for a while, and went back to shooting my 5,45 again. I sold my upper and still have my lower for a rainy day build.

Now, I've been introduced to another 7,62 gun and must admit, it is my all time favorite combloc weapon I've ever shot, the vz58. I will be picking one up soon to make my primary ebr.

Yes the mags and parts are not as common, but can be had cheap and on the plenty side. It changed my mind about the 7,62....seriously.

On the argument of mil-surp vs. Commercial, the yugo M67 rounds that are out there will do more damage in terms of hitting force and penetration than 5,45 will. Its priced nicely as well, and its also corrosive so yay!  (/sarcasm).

Now don't get me wrong, I love my bulgy and all 12k rounds its seen down the pipe. I do however realize if I should ever need a rifle for something other than plinking, I want to roll 7,62.

Each has its own merits and benefits, you are the one to decide what works best for you.

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Well guys I got My rifle from Aim, SGL21.

The weapon is in very nice condition. No sight cant, no visiable signs of any finish wear. I couldn't be happier even if I had inspected it myself before buying it. Good job AIM.
My only complaint is the 800 dollar rifle does not come with its orignal sling or cleaning kit. I fault that to Arsenal INC.
So with that being said whats are some Sling recomendations from you guys?

As far as sighting arangements, I'm torn between getting the Ultimak and a Bushnell TRS-25 or the K-var  KV-04 and the Bushnell TRS-25.
My main hang up  on the ultimak is cleaning after shooting YUGO 7.62x39mm.


I did decide on my chest rig and I am going to go with a modern Chinese rig from 7.62 Tactical.

I will try to get some pics up later today.

I'll get some better pics soon, this was with my cell phone

Surplus Russian or Bulgarian sling.

If you find a good price, let me know

I personally have a Glock 23 with built in flashlite and night sites and laser for second is a AK-74 but the rest stayed locked up,, Id be afraid of using any of my 3 Ak-47 or the 2 AR-15 since I think the rounds would go to far tru the frame and sheetrock walls..... I like the Ak-74 since it has a foldable stock and I can make it very short for my hall ways and corners..

I have done some research and some very informal tests of my own (goofing off) with drywall penetration 5.45 vs. 5.56, and I am not so sure you are any better of with your AK-74 vs. your AR-15 on that issue. In fact, you are probably better off with frangible 5.56 than any 5.45 ammo on the market.

drywall tests  

The 7.62 x 39 is a nice round for self defense, I know, I was shot with one in Vietnam. Blessed to still be here, though, five surgeries resulted from it. The only downside to it, unless you live in a larger city, is it's availability. It's really hard to find locally, here in east Texas, in fact I've got to order some decent rounds like the new Hornady. With that one consideration it has my vote.
Good luck with whatever you choose.

Where ever your location, if you think 7.62 is hard to find, 5.45 has to be impossible.

Every sporting goods store or gun shop here has steel cased 7.62 in both FMJ and HP flavors. Even Walmart here has some Tula. Only one shop within 50 miles has 5.45....sometimes.

What exactly are you considering decent ?

....I'm in Dallas/Ft Worth TX and you can buy Tula 7,62x39 at Walmart

5,45 on the other hand is limited in retail around here to a couple of outlets and that is IF they have it in stock - unless you order from the net in bulk ..... but then again I don't really
like the UPS seeing lots of ammo deliveries to my house.

I do notice that people who own 5,45 tend to buy ammo in bulk ...and that is a good idea when there is none really produced in bulk - at a reasonable cost,,,,,

I'd buy 7.62 in bulk too if it was $130 / 1080

I was really leaning towards 5.45 just because of AMMO cost.  But in the area of Oklahoma I am in, 7.62x39mm made alot more sense because of thick vegitation and trees.

dont get a .223 AK-

Aim surplus is selling surplus Yugo 7.62 @ about .04 a round more than
Russian 5,45

Second video says it all....

very eye opening