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Posted: 12/12/2010 6:38:07 PM EDT
[#1]
Sorry to be a little off topic. I'd like to get info on the peep site that's used on a milled AK in the first book of AK. It's shown with an Ultimak rail with a T-1 on it. Another pic is in the second book in the article about hand guards. Can you give any info about it? Do you like peep sites on AKs?
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Posted: 12/12/2010 6:38:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Yes, a low profile side mount if I am going to run a magnified optic.
Normally I only run a red dot on an AK.......because it is, well, an AK. However I have one 5.45x39mm rifle set up with a 4x scope on a side mount. With a 6.5mm Grendel AK though, things get a bit different as you have the range to actually make use of scope. But I tend to like things very simple, and the lighter the better. ETA: I'd like to check out the mounts Mosin is coming out with...they look very interesting indeed.... |
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Posted: 12/12/2010 6:52:05 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Sorry to be a little off topic. I'd like to get info on the peep site that's used on a milled AK in the first book of AK. It's shown with an Ultimak rail with a T-1 on it. Another pic is in the second book in the article about hand guards. Can you give any info about it? Do you like peep sites on AKs? I don't have a copy of that issue anymore, gave them all away. But it sounds like you are talking about a custom rifle I had Krebs build many years ago. Here is the whole story: Back in the 1980s when the Chinese AKs started coming in a friend of mine Don Grover and I came up with a bunch of mods for our personal rifles. One of these was adding an aperture to the stock rear sight. What we did was take a chain saw file to the rear sight and open it way up. Then a piece of flared steel brake line was cut down and TIG welded in place. Years later when I had Krebs build that rifle I had him do a few things which Grove and I used to do. Galil safety was one and a rear aperture sight was another. His first attempt, seen in those pics, turned out pretty well. You need for the aperture to be fairly large and to be shaded for it to work. Some 10 years later I still have it on that rifle. I like THAT peep sight. I do not like how Krebs makes his sights now or what else I have seen on the market. But it is an individual matter. A good red dot is a better option, with the irons just for emergency use. |
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Posted: 12/12/2010 7:06:32 PM EDT
[#4]
I agree, the peep shown in the first book is the best I've ever seen. If someone were to make them just like that, I believe they would sell like hotcakes.
 I know my friends and I really hoped these were still being made.
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Posted: 12/12/2010 8:01:59 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Yes, a low profile side mount if I am going to run a magnified optic. Normally I only run a red dot on an AK.......because it is, well, an AK. However I have one 5.45x39mm rifle set up with a 4x scope on a side mount. With a 6.5mm Grendel AK though, things get a bit different as you have the range to actually make use of scope. But I tend to like things very simple, and the lighter the better. ETA: I'd like to check out the mounts Mosin is coming out with...they look very interesting indeed.... Mosin Mounts? |
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Posted: 12/12/2010 8:11:00 PM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 12/12/2010 8:11:40 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yes, a low profile side mount if I am going to run a magnified optic. Normally I only run a red dot on an AK.......because it is, well, an AK. However I have one 5.45x39mm rifle set up with a 4x scope on a side mount. With a 6.5mm Grendel AK though, things get a bit different as you have the range to actually make use of scope. But I tend to like things very simple, and the lighter the better. ETA: I'd like to check out the mounts Mosin is coming out with...they look very interesting indeed.... Mosin Mounts? Yep, that be them's in the previous post |
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Posted: 12/12/2010 8:16:23 PM EDT
[#8]
I am trying to decide what I want to do to my VEPR-K 5.45, maybe sell it and get a coverted Saiga in 5.45. I dunno, I am thinking a 1-4x as I do like magnification and the VEPR is a heavy gun anyway
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Posted: 12/12/2010 8:35:01 PM EDT
[#9]
I sold my Veprs because they were too heavy. Great rifles, but just too heavy.
1-4x would work well on a 5.45 gun where you can stretch its legs a bit. |
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Posted: 12/12/2010 10:43:48 PM EDT
[#10]
I didn't like the idea of a red dot or top rail either on an AK, but after trying out a Vortex Sparc on my midwest industries handguards, I was sold, I shoot so much more accurately than with the plain irons
How much are they looking at for a price on this Krebs? I'm guessing this piece is well over $1500 for just the base model before throwing on the Kreb goodies |
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Posted: 12/13/2010 2:58:32 PM EDT
[#11]
Very nice setup and good job aswell
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Posted: 12/13/2010 8:04:32 PM EDT
[#12]
I like the part about "perhaps traditional AK pattern mags" . And also , steel cased ammo.
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Posted: 12/15/2010 10:40:15 AM EDT
[#13]
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I love the 6.5 grendel, but lack of availibility and high prices kills it. But if it was readily available and priced the same as steel case 7.62x39mm on the low end you might feel different huh.... Yes, and Yes. Bullet puller, 6.5mm bullets, seat 6.5 bullets, sell .30 bullets on the EE to recoup some of the costs. All you need is a simple single stage reloading press... David - I just noticed it takes AR mags  . I thought the AK would be a natural due to the case fitting the AK magazines better (cheap reliable magazines).
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Posted: 12/16/2010 6:37:09 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
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Quoted:
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I love the 6.5 grendel, but lack of availibility and high prices kills it. But if it was readily available and priced the same as steel case 7.62x39mm on the low end you might feel different huh.... Yes, and Yes. Bullet puller, 6.5mm bullets, seat 6.5 bullets, sell .30 bullets on the EE to recoup some of the costs. All you need is a simple single stage reloading press... David - I just noticed it takes AR mags . I thought the AK would be a natural due to the case fitting the AK magazines better (cheap reliable magazines).Forest- you know the case taper difference probably makes the '47 mags incompatable. Now a 6x45 conversion on a .223 Saiga or .243/.260/7-08 on a .308 Saiga should allow use of their respective mags. I personaly would prefer the std ak magwell if I could get one . Even if propriety mags weren't available I'd try grafting the top 1" section of the ak mag to the corresponding portion of the Grendel AR mag. A barreled and headspaced trunion would be a nice option. |
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Posted: 12/16/2010 10:13:20 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
.Forest- you know the case taper difference probably makes the '47 mags incompatable. Now a 6x45 conversion on a .223 Saiga or .243/.260/7-08 on a .308 Saiga should allow use of their respective mags. . That's correct the '47 mags would have too much curve. But I'm thinking the less curvy '74 magazines. 
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Posted: 12/16/2010 10:18:37 AM EDT
[#16]
its mag adapter like this one or not removable part of receiver? 
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Posted: 12/16/2010 11:36:56 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
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.Forest- you know the case taper difference probably makes the '47 mags incompatable. Now a 6x45 conversion on a .223 Saiga or .243/.260/7-08 on a .308 Saiga should allow use of their respective mags. . That's correct the '47 mags would have too much curve. But I'm thinking the less curvy '74 magazines.
Hmmm , Mr Fortier did say it was built on a '74 , didn't he. |
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Posted: 12/20/2010 11:49:48 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
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.Forest- you know the case taper difference probably makes the '47 mags incompatable. Now a 6x45 conversion on a .223 Saiga or .243/.260/7-08 on a .308 Saiga should allow use of their respective mags. . That's correct the '47 mags would have too much curve. But I'm thinking the less curvy '74 magazines.
I'm normally an AR guy (but do have a little commie craving now and then), but wouldn't the reformed 7.62 cases feed better through a 7.62 mag? I have seen some folks mention on 65grendel.com that the fireformed loads feed better through 7.62x39 AR mags than they do through 6.5 Grendel mags because of the case's original shape. |
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Posted: 12/21/2010 7:11:54 AM EDT
[#19]
They were probably using the x39 mag in the fireforming process. After fireforming they would be more straight walled.
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Posted: 12/21/2010 11:55:13 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
They were probably using the x39 mag in the fireforming process. After fireforming they would be more straight walled. That makes more sense. If that were the case though, an AK in 6.5 Grendel using AK mags could be used to reliably fireform ammo for an AK running 6.5 Grendel. |
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Posted: 12/21/2010 1:39:22 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
They were probably using the x39 mag in the fireforming process. After fireforming they would be more straight walled. That makes more sense. If that were the case though, an AK in 6.5 Grendel using AK mags could be used to reliably fireform ammo for an AK running 6.5 Grendel. Get both ! 
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Posted: 12/21/2010 3:01:04 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
They were probably using the x39 mag in the fireforming process. After fireforming they would be more straight walled. That makes more sense. If that were the case though, an AK in 6.5 Grendel using AK mags could be used to reliably fireform ammo for an AK running 6.5 Grendel. You could have an AK in 6.5mm Grendel which took standard 7.62x39mm AK mags and run all your 6.5x39m case forming loads through it and then reload them and shoot them again in your 6.5mm Grendel AR
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Posted: 12/21/2010 3:46:22 PM EDT
[#23]
Did I mention.... 
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Posted: 12/21/2010 8:25:47 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They were probably using the x39 mag in the fireforming process. After fireforming they would be more straight walled. That makes more sense. If that were the case though, an AK in 6.5 Grendel using AK mags could be used to reliably fireform ammo for an AK running 6.5 Grendel. You could have an AK in 6.5mm Grendel which took standard 7.62x39mm AK mags and run all your 6.5x39m case forming loads through it and then reload them and shoot them again in your 6.5mm Grendel AR That is EXACTLY what I had in mind. |
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Posted: 12/21/2010 10:25:56 PM EDT
[#25]
At right is a steel 7.62x39mm case necked down to 6.5mm
I have fireformed these, converted to boxer and reloaded 4 times...... 
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Posted: 12/21/2010 11:53:45 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
At right is a steel 7.62x39mm case necked down to 6.5mm I have fireformed these, converted to boxer and reloaded 4 times...... http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss273/Gunwritr/LtoR65Grendel65PPCexperimental65x39reduced-1.jpg Is there a lot involved with converting the primer? |
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Posted: 12/22/2010 5:03:36 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
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At right is a steel 7.62x39mm case necked down to 6.5mm I have fireformed these, converted to boxer and reloaded 4 times...... http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss273/Gunwritr/LtoR65Grendel65PPCexperimental65x39reduced-1.jpg Is there a lot involved with converting the primer? Do tell. |
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Posted: 12/22/2010 6:50:43 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
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At right is a steel 7.62x39mm case necked down to 6.5mm I have fireformed these, converted to boxer and reloaded 4 times...... http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss273/Gunwritr/LtoR65Grendel65PPCexperimental65x39reduced-1.jpg Is there a lot involved with converting the primer? Do tell. Gunwriter covered how to do it in a thread in the AR Variants forum on reloading steel cases. IIRC he used a regular sizing die with the decapper (the decapper would actually punch a hole for you - though you'd occasionally break the decapping pin and some holes were unusable). Then when installing a primer he used a bit of epoxy. The funny thing is the second time the case was loaded the primer went right in like it was a Boxer primed case. Archived Thread on using Boxer Primers in Beriden Primed Steel Cases (Team Members only) |
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Posted: 12/22/2010 8:12:02 AM EDT
[#29]
Another practice that would add some frugality to the Grendel is hydroforming. This is a great practice also for anyone that has to drive to the range since it will also save time and gas as well as primers , powder , and bullets. Utilizing steel cases you could essentially drive the cartridge cost down to just the cost of powder,primers, and bullets . With that in mind , a case of Grendel doesn't sound too bad.
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Posted: 12/22/2010 8:53:44 AM EDT
[#30]
Is the velocity the same out of the steel case or more?
Kind of reminds me of the 357-38spl case. |
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Posted: 12/22/2010 8:59:40 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Is the velocity the same out of the steel case or more? Kind of reminds me of the 357-38spl case. Rim size is close .
ETA- I hope you're not talking about that aluminum cased Blazer stuff. |
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Posted: 12/23/2010 12:57:00 PM EDT
[#32]
Does it still have AK reliability, or have the tolerances been tightened up?
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Posted: 12/23/2010 2:05:37 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Does it still have AK reliability, or have the tolerances been tightened up? Nyet tightened up........tolerances are the same |
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Posted: 12/24/2010 3:40:15 PM EDT
[#34]
I'd like to see this and an AR in a side by side meltdown test. Also by itself with some proof loads( trigger pulled with string)
.
ETA - Merry Christmas , hope Santa's elves have those hammers ringing those rivets right now. 
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Posted: 3/10/2011 6:32:49 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
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I love the 6.5 grendel, but lack of availibility and high prices kills it. But if it was readily available and priced the same as steel case 7.62x39mm on the low end you might feel different huh.... Yes, and Yes. Gunwritr... is there something we should be reading between the lines here? I've been Grendel-Jonesing for almost as long as my kids have been alive! |
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Posted: 3/15/2011 5:57:45 PM EDT
[#36]
Yes there is something you should be reading between the lines........
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Posted: 3/19/2011 6:28:44 AM EDT
[#37]
AK owners love cheap ammo so I doubt these will fly off the shelves. It's not going to be as accurate as a free floated AR15 in 6.5 so for the money why not just keep the AK the same and buy a nice bolt action rifle?
1000 yards 6.5 AR The cost is going to be crazy on an AK in this caliber. |
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Posted: 3/22/2011 9:51:40 AM EDT
[#38]
The whole point of this thread is to show that there is a chance that steel cased 6.5 ammo will be available. Thus, a 6.5 AK is not a conceptual impossibility.
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Posted: 3/22/2011 2:11:29 PM EDT
[#39]
Gunwritr, sorry for off topic but what type of RX shooting glasses are those with the inserts???
 I want some!!
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Posted: 4/3/2011 1:39:48 PM EDT
[#40]
This is relevant to my interests.......bumped for updates
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Posted: 4/6/2011 2:13:36 AM EDT
[#41]
The little book store in our little town just got a fresh stack of the "Book of the AK47" in .
Yeah me .....happy 
I'm reading your article now Dave , and am really impressed at the ballistics of Bill's little Grendel compared to the other mid-weights ( 223,6.8 and the 7.62x39).....hell , it lags behind the 308 , but not by as much as you would think. A mini-Druganov built on a standard AK sized receiver and sporting a 24" 1in8 match barrel would be most interesting .
I'm glad I read about the AK mags not feeding the Grendel , sure saved me a bunch of wasted time . Krebb's custom mag well with BHO and mag release are sweet . I'll bet when Krebbs fine tunes these that he'll sell quite a few .Thanks for this write-up . |
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Posted: 4/7/2011 11:04:51 AM EDT
[#42]
I must admit, David, I'm impressed.
When the topic first came up, in discussion some time ago, I thought, WHY? Taking an inherently inaccurate platform, chambering it in a precision barrel with match grade Scenar ammo... Like feeding diamonds to a goat. Why? The end result couldn't be that good, and certainly not worth the money invested... But the 1.8" grouping impressed me... Figure the gun's mechanical accuracy is likely about 1.5 moa, and the 0.3 is probably your practical accuracy given the conditions (position, wind, etc), and that makes things better than I anticipated. I figured 2MOA, maybe. Nothing notable. Though 1.5 or so for estimated mechanical accuracy makes this project much more plausible & practical. That's a potential 12" grouping at 800yds, and a notable improvement over the standard AK's 7.62mm. Basically making THIS AK have a practical range nearly double the normal of 400-500yds. I think Krebs is onto something if he can machine a custom gas block, FSB, and give this gun a slightly larger diameter profile with some fluting on the barrel! Now it's just a matter of determining if the cost of the weapon, mags, and ammo are worth it. Some buyers may really jump at this - especially precision handloaders. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/8/2011 6:07:40 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
I must admit, David, I'm impressed. When the topic first came up, in discussion some time ago, I thought, WHY? Taking an inherently inaccurate platform, chambering it in a precision barrel with match grade Scenar ammo... Like feeding diamonds to a goat. Why? The end result couldn't be that good, and certainly not worth the money invested... But the 1.8" grouping impressed me... Figure the gun's mechanical accuracy is likely about 1.5 moa, and the 0.3 is probably your practical accuracy given the conditions (position, wind, etc), and that makes things better than I anticipated. I figured 2MOA, maybe. Nothing notable. Though 1.5 or so for estimated mechanical accuracy makes this project much more plausible & practical. That's a potential 12" grouping at 800yds, and a notable improvement over the standard AK's 7.62mm. Basically making THIS AK have a practical range nearly double the normal of 400-500yds. I think Krebs is onto something if he can machine a custom gas block, FSB, and give this gun a slightly larger diameter profile with some fluting on the barrel! Now it's just a matter of determining if the cost of the weapon, mags, and ammo are worth it. Some buyers may really jump at this - especially precision handloaders. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I agree, it's an interesting project. Regarding accuracy, the prototype had the wrong barrel twist and was noticeably overgassed. With the correct twist rate and proper gas port I suspect accuracy could even be improved a bit. |
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Posted: 4/8/2011 6:08:19 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
The little book store in our little town just got a fresh stack of the "Book of the AK47" in . Yeah me .....happy
I'm reading your article now Dave , and am really impressed at the ballistics of Bill's little Grendel compared to the other mid-weights ( 223,6.8 and the 7.62x39).....hell , it lags behind the 308 , but not by as much as you would think. A mini-Druganov built on a standard AK sized receiver and sporting a 24" 1in8 match barrel would be most interesting .
I'm glad I read about the AK mags not feeding the Grendel , sure saved me a bunch of wasted time . Krebb's custom mag well with BHO and mag release are sweet . I'll bet when Krebbs fine tunes these that he'll sell quite a few .Thanks for this write-up . Glad you liked the article! |
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Posted: 4/26/2011 10:45:38 PM EDT
[#45]
Gotta find that book.
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Posted: 4/26/2011 10:49:07 PM EDT
[#46]
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Gotta find that book. It's still available on the local Barnes & Noble magazine rack here. It's worth every penny! |
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Posted: 4/26/2011 11:22:59 PM EDT
[#47]
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Gotta find that book. It's still available on the local Barnes & Noble magazine rack here. It's worth every penny! Thanks. |
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Posted: 4/27/2011 2:52:34 AM EDT
[#48]
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Gotta find that book. It's still available on the local Barnes & Noble magazine rack here. It's worth every penny! Yes they are . I really like these 'specials' put out by G&A . |
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