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Posted: 3/3/2010 11:12:34 PM EST
Just playing around I decided to pull some bullets and compare, figured I'd share.

I was specifically interested in how the 5.45 compared to a 5.56 bullet, I had no idea it was that much longer.


Left to right: 7.62x39, 5.45x39, 5.56x45


Link Posted: 3/3/2010 11:51:30 PM EST
I would like to have an ak74 to go with my norinco mak 90. the 5.45x39 looks cool
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 12:15:33 AM EST
5.45 is my favorite round. I love how they look like little darts
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 3:38:14 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 6:10:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
Is the 5.45 a commercial or surplus round?


I believe that is surplus, based on the green tint and sealant.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 6:12:30 AM EST
I see your pics, and I raise you.........:

5.56, with 55gr, 62gr M855, and 75gr BTHP –––– 5.45, with 53gr FMJ steel core, and 60gr FMJ........




Notice the 5.56 trend of getting longer; ala 5.45...?
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 6:44:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/4/2010 6:45:04 AM EST by manican]
If you look closely to the taper on the 5.45 bullet it has less rifling contact than the 5.56 due to its taper.
That said I'll still pick the wicked 5.45
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 8:09:19 AM EST
Ill have to do a test on several phone books to see how the 5.45 penetrates. Would be interesting to see as it yaws and come out sideways.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 10:49:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By ARmory04:
I see your pics, and I raise you.........:

5.56, with 55gr, 62gr M855, and 75gr BTHP –––– 5.45, with 53gr FMJ steel core, and 60gr FMJ........

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii143/jballistics04/SDC10730-1.jpg


Notice the 5.56 trend of getting longer; ala 5.45...?


I see your pics and raise you

7.62x54r, .223
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 11:40:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By MG42––Slayer:
Originally Posted By ARmory04:
I see your pics, and I raise you.........:

5.56, with 55gr, 62gr M855, and 75gr BTHP –––– 5.45, with 53gr FMJ steel core, and 60gr FMJ........

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii143/jballistics04/SDC10730-1.jpg


Notice the 5.56 trend of getting longer; ala 5.45...?


I see your pics and raise you

7.62x54r, .223
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/7626/cimg4205.jpg



...Need to work on that focus....

Speaking of 7.62..... I raise the bar once more.................:

x51 on left, with 147gr, 168gr, and 175gr. x54 on the right, 147gr Russian, and 182gr Yugo.......

Link Posted: 3/4/2010 3:43:14 PM EST
Originally Posted By xjedix:
I was specifically interested in how the 5.45 compared to a 5.56 bullet, I had no idea it was that much longer.

I read that the 5.45x39 is actually 5.62 mm.


Link Posted: 3/4/2010 3:59:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By Ermac:
Originally Posted By xjedix:
I was specifically interested in how the 5.45 compared to a 5.56 bullet, I had no idea it was that much longer.

I read that the 5.45x39 is actually 5.62 mm.




5.60 or .220"

Link Posted: 3/4/2010 4:21:15 PM EST
since we are comparing things..


Link Posted: 3/5/2010 4:29:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By NavajoGunOwner:
since we are comparing things..


http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c375/Navajozorro/D2966171A.jpg



Appears to be 300 WM, 7.62N, .17 HMR, .22 LR, and .22 cal pellet...

Nice pic btw..
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 11:26:16 PM EST
So uhhh....who's got the .50BMG to compare?
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 3:29:39 AM EST





Z
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 4:46:12 AM EST
Appologies for the AR in the background but here is a .223 and a 50BMG

http://highcountryinc.com/IMG_0519.jpg
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 4:50:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By chowchow:
Ill have to do a test on several phone books to see how the 5.45 penetrates. Would be interesting to see as it yaws and come out sideways.


The 5.45 yaws before it gets to the target.
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 6:40:46 AM EST

7,62x39 9x39 SP5 ball 9x39 SP6 AP 5,45x39



all types of 5,45x39
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 7:41:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By eracer:

The 5.45 yaws before it gets to the target.

If you fire it in a barrel with the wrong sized bore, or the incorrect rate of twist, yes (just as any other bullet/cartridge).
If you fire it through the correct barrel, no.

Link Posted: 3/7/2010 7:47:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By eracer:

Originally Posted By chowchow:
Ill have to do a test on several phone books to see how the 5.45 penetrates. Would be interesting to see as it yaws and come out sideways.


The 5.45 yaws before it gets to the target.


Only if you're shooting it out of a piece of junk rifle!

I assure you, none of the five 5.45 rifles I've built do any 'yawing' prior to striking the target.
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 7:57:00 AM EST
The more I see it the more I see how much the 5.45x39 and 5.56x45 fall behind to the 7.62x39. I insist and always will, the AK = 7.62x39.
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 8:04:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By Sopho:
The more I see it the more I see how much the 5.45x39 and 5.56x45 fall behind to the 7.62x39. I insist and always will, the AK = 7.62x39.


Do you have any experience with the 5.45x39? What do you base your opinion on?

I have some 5.56 75gr TAP that I would LOVE to compare to 7.62x39's best

Where do the 5.45 and 5.56 fall behind to the 7.62x39, maybe barrier penetration???
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 8:23:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/7/2010 9:11:38 AM EST by Ermac]
Originally Posted By Sopho:
The more I see it the more I see how much the 5.45x39 and 5.56x45 fall behind to the 7.62x39. I insist and always will, the AK = 7.62x39.

I prefer the 7.62x39, but it's not like it totally beats the 5.56x45 or 5.45x39. The 7.62x39 does better for lethality and barrier penetration then either of those cartridges, but does not have the flat trajectory of the 5.56x45 or 5.45x39. With that said, there are cartridges out there that beat them all in the catagories I named. I wonder how the 9x39 does ballisticly.

Link Posted: 3/7/2010 8:47:55 AM EST
Currently, the only 5x45x39 ammo is imported. I love the round. Virtually no recoil and you can dump a 30rd magazine in a couple of seconds.I have a sweet Polish tantal and a bulgy fixed stock on the way.
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 9:08:20 AM EST
That 5.45 bullet must have one heck of a ballistic coefficient. It would seem with that taper it would have better LR performance than the same weight 5.56.
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 9:11:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/7/2010 9:16:56 AM EST by Zachrjasz]
ammo 5,56x45 are gtg in ak74 mag? it seems to have same length to 5,45x39

i never own 5,56x45 round
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 10:33:46 AM EST
Who can name them all?

Link Posted: 3/7/2010 1:26:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By SHONUFF:
Who can name them all?

http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/ae26/shonuff_bucket/DSCF0430-1.jpg


umm...

22lr, 25acp, 380acp, 9mm, 45acp, 357mag, 223nato, 7.62x39, 7.62x54r, ???, 30-06, ???, .50bmg, ???, ???

best I can do
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 1:49:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By Ermac:
Originally Posted By Sopho:
The more I see it the more I see how much the 5.45x39 and 5.56x45 fall behind to the 7.62x39. I insist and always will, the AK = 7.62x39.

I prefer the 7.62x39, but it's not like it totally beats the 5.56x45 or 5.45x39. The 7.62x39 does better for lethality and barrier penetration then either of those cartridges, but does not have the flat trajectory of the 5.56x45 or 5.45x39. With that said, there are cartridges out there that beat them all in the catagories I named. I wonder how the 9x39 does ballisticly.



Please show proof that the 7.62x39 is more lethal than 5.56 We are in the US and there are many different flavors of 5.56/.223 here

Beat this




Link Posted: 3/7/2010 2:34:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By rube79:
Originally Posted By Sopho:
The more I see it the more I see how much the 5.45x39 and 5.56x45 fall behind to the 7.62x39. I insist and always will, the AK = 7.62x39.


Do you have any experience with the 5.45x39? What do you base your opinion on?

I have some 5.56 75gr TAP that I would LOVE to compare to 7.62x39's best

Where do the 5.45 and 5.56 fall behind to the 7.62x39, maybe barrier penetration???


I have a 7.62x39 and my friend has a 5.45x39 and I can hit the same spot on both at 75 yards. When does the accuracy come in? For all I care the AK is design as an assault rifle and not a sniper rifle. More distance than 75 yards in an assault rifle is almost useless in a war. Yes, the penetration in a 7.62x39 is awesome in any battlefield setting.

God bless the AK-47.
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 3:03:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By Sopho:
Originally Posted By rube79:
Originally Posted By Sopho:
The more I see it the more I see how much the 5.45x39 and 5.56x45 fall behind to the 7.62x39. I insist and always will, the AK = 7.62x39.


Do you have any experience with the 5.45x39? What do you base your opinion on?

I have some 5.56 75gr TAP that I would LOVE to compare to 7.62x39's best

Where do the 5.45 and 5.56 fall behind to the 7.62x39, maybe barrier penetration???


I have a 7.62x39 and my friend has a 5.45x39 and I can hit the same spot on both at 75 yards. When does the accuracy come in? For all I care the AK is design as an assault rifle and not a sniper rifle. More distance than 75 yards in an assault rifle is almost useless in a war. Yes, the penetration in a 7.62x39 is awesome in any battlefield setting.

God bless the AK-47.


Thanks for answering and don't worry i won't ask again. Your answer more than explains enough for your reasoning/response.

I love looking at my 75 yard sight leaf on max setting too . Your vast experience in WAR and on the BATTLEFIELD helped as well.
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 3:10:34 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 4:08:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/7/2010 4:11:14 PM EST by two4spooky]
Originally Posted By Zachrjasz:
ammo 5,56x45 are gtg in ak74 mag? it seems to have same length to 5,45x39

i never own 5,56x45 round


The 5.56x45 will fit in an AK74 magazine but not feed reliably in a 5.56 caliber rifle. Generally the AK74 magazine will require modification to the feed lips and follower for reliability. Thanks for the pic of different 5.45 rounds. What are the two with green tips? AP? API?
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 5:07:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By Zachrjasz:
http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/5251/1242234837247.jpg
7,62x39 9x39 SP5 ball 9x39 SP6 AP 5,45x39


http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/4826/1395778.jpg
all types of 5,45x39







Link Posted: 3/7/2010 5:10:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By windyhill:
That 5.45 bullet must have one heck of a ballistic coefficient. It would seem with that taper it would have better LR performance than the same weight 5.56.


No actual figures here; however, in my personal experience, it appears that it does......
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 5:11:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By Zachrjasz:
ammo 5,56x45 are gtg in ak74 mag? it seems to have same length to 5,45x39

i never own 5,56x45 round



I'd trade you some 5.56 for some 9x39........!
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 6:38:36 PM EST
+1 The only way to go

Originally Posted By Sopho:
The more I see it the more I see how much the 5.45x39 and 5.56x45 fall behind to the 7.62x39. I insist and always will, the AK = 7.62x39.


Link Posted: 3/7/2010 8:03:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By rube79:
Originally Posted By Sopho:
Originally Posted By rube79:
Originally Posted By Sopho:
The more I see it the more I see how much the 5.45x39 and 5.56x45 fall behind to the 7.62x39. I insist and always will, the AK = 7.62x39.


Do you have any experience with the 5.45x39? What do you base your opinion on?

I have some 5.56 75gr TAP that I would LOVE to compare to 7.62x39's best

Where do the 5.45 and 5.56 fall behind to the 7.62x39, maybe barrier penetration???


I have a 7.62x39 and my friend has a 5.45x39 and I can hit the same spot on both at 75 yards. When does the accuracy come in? For all I care the AK is design as an assault rifle and not a sniper rifle. More distance than 75 yards in an assault rifle is almost useless in a war. Yes, the penetration in a 7.62x39 is awesome in any battlefield setting.

God bless the AK-47.


Thanks for answering and don't worry i won't ask again. Your answer more than explains enough for your reasoning/response.

I love looking at my 75 yard sight leaf on max setting too . Your vast experience in WAR and on the BATTLEFIELD helped as well.


Your sarcasm is very hard. Prove me wrong or don't quote me at all pls. :)
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 5:28:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/8/2010 5:44:45 AM EST by Zachrjasz]
Originally Posted By two4spooky:

The 5.56x45 will fit in an AK74 magazine but not feed reliably in a 5.56 caliber rifle. Generally the AK74 magazine will require modification to the feed lips and follower for reliability. Thanks for the pic of different 5.45 rounds. What are the two with green tips? AP? API?


thanks for info! i will try to give follower from beryl mag and i will try to get somewhere 5,56

I dont know what is AP and API

green nose are 7T3 and they create thin smog line to show trace of bullet. Basicly they are loaded one bullet on 3 normal, its good to shooting on long distance and strong wind.
black-green nose are 7U1 subsonic cartridge for underwater firing.

sorry for my english

Originally Posted By ARmory04:


I'd trade you some 5.56 for some 9x39........!


okay

__

fotgot about blank:


and armor piercing:


i dont have them
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 1:06:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By ARmory04:
Originally Posted By windyhill:
That 5.45 bullet must have one heck of a ballistic coefficient. It would seem with that taper it would have better LR performance than the same weight 5.56.


No actual figures here; however, in my personal experience, it appears that it does......


I'm starting to believe this myself when you look at the info in this thread and the source link. I think 5.45 vs 5.56 past 200m, 5.45 not relying on velocity, wins.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=121&t=486794
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 4:08:34 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 4:32:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By Forest:


With that attitude it's no wonder people weilding AKs get owned by countries employing 5.56 rifles...

Most infantry engagements (95%) take place at 300M or less, not 75. The battles in Afghanistan have the US reconsidering the 500M mark (for an extra 2% or so).

For LEOs & citizens 75M is probably 'good enough', unless you hunt with that rifle.




Well said






Z
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 6:24:18 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 6:43:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By rube79:
Originally Posted By Ermac:
Originally Posted By Sopho:
The more I see it the more I see how much the 5.45x39 and 5.56x45 fall behind to the 7.62x39. I insist and always will, the AK = 7.62x39.

I prefer the 7.62x39, but it's not like it totally beats the 5.56x45 or 5.45x39. The 7.62x39 does better for lethality and barrier penetration then either of those cartridges, but does not have the flat trajectory of the 5.56x45 or 5.45x39. With that said, there are cartridges out there that beat them all in the catagories I named. I wonder how the 9x39 does ballisticly.



Please show proof that the 7.62x39 is more lethal than 5.56 We are in the US and there are many different flavors of 5.56/.223 here

Beat this
http://www.hornadyle.com/assets/uploads/223-rem-75-BTHP-Gelatin.jpg

http://www.box.net/shared/static/uj706hbyei.jpg


The 7.62x39 is much more consistent in terminal performance, regardless of barrel length. The 5.56x45 relies soley on velocity for its effectiveness.

Link Posted: 3/8/2010 7:16:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By Ermac:
Originally Posted By rube79:
Originally Posted By Ermac:
Originally Posted By Sopho:
The more I see it the more I see how much the 5.45x39 and 5.56x45 fall behind to the 7.62x39. I insist and always will, the AK = 7.62x39.

I prefer the 7.62x39, but it's not like it totally beats the 5.56x45 or 5.45x39. The 7.62x39 does better for lethality and barrier penetration then either of those cartridges, but does not have the flat trajectory of the 5.56x45 or 5.45x39. With that said, there are cartridges out there that beat them all in the catagories I named. I wonder how the 9x39 does ballisticly.



Please show proof that the 7.62x39 is more lethal than 5.56 We are in the US and there are many different flavors of 5.56/.223 here

Beat this
http://www.hornadyle.com/assets/uploads/223-rem-75-BTHP-Gelatin.jpg

http://www.box.net/shared/static/uj706hbyei.jpg


The 7.62x39 is much more consistent in terminal performance, regardless of barrel length. The 5.56x45 relies soley on velocity for its effectiveness.



More consistent at not yawing or disrupting at any velocity, or doing anything other than just drilling through.

Its easy to be consistent when the bar is set so low.

The Soviets had very good reasons for dropping it 35+ years ago.




Link Posted: 3/8/2010 7:40:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/8/2010 7:53:48 PM EST by Sopho]
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By Sopho:
. More distance than 75 yards in an assault rifle is almost useless in a war.


With that attitude it's no wonder people weilding AKs get owned by countries employing 5.56 rifles...

Most infantry engagements (95%) take place at 300M or less, not 75. The battles in Afghanistan have the US reconsidering the 500M mark (for an extra 2% or so).

For LEOs & citizens 75M is probably 'good enough', unless you hunt with that rifle.


Interesting. Actually only when we are present countries with AKs get owned and sometimes not even so. Some wars that we did not win against the AK-47s where involvements such as the El Salvador war and of course Vietnam. Aside from that AK-47s where always winners if not even ask the Soviets against the Afghans which really is the only war that matters in this topic because it was the only battle where AK 47s and 74s where used. :).

P.S. Sniper rifles in Afghanistan are used way before the 500M mark.
+Are you really comparing our new M16A4 to the old rusty AK-47?

Ask your grunt friend who saved his life.
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 8:35:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 9:42:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/8/2010 9:43:33 PM EST by Sopho]
Originally Posted By Forest:
I must have missed the war in El Salvador, the only one I recall us fighting in that region was Grenada - A US win. 2. Even in Vietnam we ruled the battlefield, don't confuse political cowardice with military defeat.


Wow... I am speechless but I will not recite anyone a junior high world history class.

2. It is funny we where in war for 18 years ruling the battlefield and losing 58,100+ (or so the government says) men but yet we did not win. Political cowardice they cal it now... Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo­oooow.

I don't know what this has to do with the topic. We're discussing combat distances by average infantryman not snipers. The US Army has been discussing the option of going back to a 500M rifle because of Afghanistan.


Indeed, and that is why your off-topic post took me by surprise when I started talking about the calibers of the Avtomat Kalashnikova and not the modern American weapons. That is specially why I brought the Soviet-Afghan war in which both rifles where used.

New A4 or old A1 both were designed for well beyond 75 yards, as was the lowly AK.

The AK-47 gives you a 5in grouping @ 100 yards with a very good shooter which it is the same as for the AK-74 (which it's what we are discussing) and also for AR-15s.

I stated that I can consistently hit a target @ 75ft with almost identical results with both the 47 and 74 because that is my personal experience. I started that more than 75 yards with an assault rifle is almost useless in the battlefield because thats when scoped rifles come in and many other weapons and factors but I am sure you know that...

Which one?


Irrelevant...

If you are going to go off topic again please also answer what the topic is about.

Link Posted: 3/9/2010 4:03:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By Sopho:

The AK-47 gives you a 5in grouping @ 100 yards with a very good shooter which it is the same as for the AK-74 (which it's what we are discussing) and also for AR-15s.

I stated that I can consistently hit a target @ 75ft with almost identical results with both the 47 and 74 because that is my personal experience. I started that more than 75 yards with an assault rifle is almost useless in the battlefield because thats when scoped rifles come in and many other weapons and factors but I am sure you know that...




You have no idea what a good AK or AR will do, its pretty obvious. The Colt LE6940 that i posted will shoot subMOA (10 shot groups) w/ 75gr TAP and has a conservative fragmentation range of almost 200 yards. These are facts, that many AR users can do and have done. How many of our troops have ACOGs or other scopes on their rifles, are you serious

I do not own an AK that shoots over 4moa and that includes my Krinkov. With surplus most people shoot 2-3in groups w/ their AK74s @ 100 yards.

As for proving your wrong, Sir you have done that for yourself.... Everyone here knows how much of an _ _ _ your making of yourself.

VA-gunnut asked for this thread not to go "full retard" Please refrain from being a complete

Link Posted: 3/9/2010 4:11:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By eracer:

Originally Posted By chowchow:
Ill have to do a test on several phone books to see how the 5.45 penetrates. Would be interesting to see as it yaws and come out sideways.


The 5.45 yaws before it gets to the target.




Maybe if it's a century tantal.
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