I just got my dogleg rail.  I finally got the front end of the rail installed after several hours of trying to compress the rear sight leaf spring.  It was as stiff as hell.  I finally ended up using a C-clamp and applying pressure to the top of the dogleg to get the pin in.  There's no way this thing is coming out now that it's in without using a punch.

The problem I'm having now is that the TWS recoil spring button doesn't seat all the way back to the rear of the groove in the trunnion.  It goes in about 3/8" and then stops.  As you can see from the pics, the issue seems to be that the ledge on the TWS button is significantly thicker than the stock Saiga/SGL button, hence it doesn't fit into the groove.  The result is that the top cover doesn't really catch on the button.  As you can see from the pic, the button doesn't stick out out at all from the top cover.

Has anyone else had this problem, and if so how did they resolve it?  I could mess around with trying to file down the ledge to make it thinner, but I'd rather not.  

Have you tried pulling back on the charging handle a few times?

Yes, I have charged it a few times, but I'm afraid to force it in.  It would then be stuck and difficult to remove.  It seems like it should slide in easily like the stock button.  Is there a reason why it should be so tight?  Is it not supposed to seat all the way back?

I would use a piece of sand paper on a flat surface to slowly remove a bit of metal from the bottom of the button until it will slide to the rear of your trunion. Go slowly and check it often to get the best fit.

I filed mine which worked,maybe 25 strokes with a file.Mine fits all the way to the rear of the trunion with the cover off.However when I put the cover down I don't think it's all the way to the rear.
The way the angle on the button that holds the cover down won't allow the button all the way to the rear of the trunion.

Did you remove material from the bottom of the button or the top of the "ledge" that sits in the trunnion groove?  Seems like removing material from the bottom might affect how high the button sights and where it lines up with the hole in the top cover.

By the way, when you close the top cover, do you just slam it home?

My Gen. II mount came in last week from Dallas Shooter's Supply. . . finally.  I ordered a few days after Christmas.

Put about 50 rounds through the Interarms Tantal that that I put it on, yesterday, getting a rough zero at 12 paces, and goofing around a little bit .  Today, I took it out and put 5 30-round mags through the Tantal and tweaked a 25 yard zero.  At the very end of the range session, the bolt carrier kind of hung up at the rear.  Gave the charging handle a little tap, and it slammed home.  Kind of odd, but I was out of ammo, and I didn't think too much of it.

Came back home and flipped up the cover to find the "spacer" laying in behind the trigger.  After a good bit of shaking, I got half of the spacer pin to fall out.  I guess the other half fell out of the rifle at some point.  Oh well.  I didn't really want the spacer in there anyway.  I'll take the buffer out of the WASR, and slide it over the Tantal guide rod, rather than Dremel it.  There some finish worn off the guide rod, and a little bit of peening, and the upper tips of the spacer scraped away some of the anodizing on the inside of the cover.  Otherwise, there doesn't seem to be any real harm done.

I'll have a review and pictures to post eventually

A mechanical engineering friend of mine predicted that the metal spacers would micro-fracture and could split. Does something like that seem to be the case? He said the rubber ones should be fine since they deform and absorb the energy with the deformation.

I filed the bottom,I could hardly notice the amount of metal removed before it slid into the trunion freely.
Do I slam the cover? The answer for me is no, I don't slam it like the old cover.
How I would describe what I do is an authoritative downward push, hope it helps.

It's plausible.  On mine, it was the pin that broke, but the spacer took a bit of a beating too, although, it's hard to tell what damage came after the pin broke, and what was there before it broke.  This is from a couple days, a couple hundred rounds, though a 5.45mm rifle.  With a rifle of a different nationality, a different builder, a different caliber, I really don't know.

Does this work on milled recievers?  I'm looking to put it on a SLR-95.  If this has been answered before I'm sorry for asking again.

I have one of these on my SLR-95.  You need to let TWS know that you need the front half of the recoil spring assembly as the SLR-95 spring assembly is different.

Thanks for posting a picture too.  I think it looks great and I was going to do almost exactly what you did with yours.  Thx for the heads up.

Frank,

Can you elaborate a bit on your comment. I've got one of these on order for my SLR-95 and would like to know what SLR specific things I'll need to do for the install.

Thanks,
Mike

So what's the wait time for this?  Been 4.5 weeks for me so far. I was told 4 weeks direct from TWS.

You don't want the button all the way to the rear. It needs some movement left to keep the cover tight and to allow for wear.




You want the cover to be pulled down as much as possible to keep it tight against the rear trunion.  You won't remove enough metal to tell the difference really, but it is best to keep it as tight as possible.

On the SLR-95 you will need to have TWS send you (mine and the other guys were all sent free) the front half of the recoil assembly.  Picture the traditional AK recoil spring and assembly which is a pair of wires that the spring is held in place by.  On the Bulgarian SLR-95 the recoil assembly is different although the spring is the same.  It is very easy to switch over the spring from the old assembly to the new one that you get from TWS.  Just tell him you will need it for the Bulgarian SLR-95 with the milled receiver and he will send the correct one for your application.
    If need be I can take some pictures tomorrow when I get off shift and post them to show you the difference.

  Below is what the traditional AK spring assembly looks like.



   Then here is the link to the Bulgarian AK recoil spring assembly.  I was unable to copy the image.

http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=16462&cat=310&page=1

my button also wouldn't go into the truniun.  I filed a little off the bottom and it went in fine.  Xssights has a low profile adjustable rail sight that I think might work with these.


xs rear sight,  anybody think it'll work?

I've been following this thread for quite some time now. This is my first time posting just to let some of you know that Jabtac has 4 of these in stock right now. They had 5 until I got lucky and got one . Anyway, just wanted to give the people who have been waiting so long a heads up.

Cheers

Update: I just did the same thing and it fits just fine.  I used sandpaper––it's easy to remove too much.  Now I just have to get a red dot mounted and get to the range!

Anybody have these in stock right now?

I wish I knew others were selling these (and might have them in stock) besides TWS before I placed my order.  It's been a little over 5 weeks.

I am about to pull the trigger on one of these for my SLR 95. What parts of the recoil spring system is needed to make this mount work? Any links to a source would be awesome too

**ETA can I switch the recoil spring setup for my SAR  1 into my SLR 95?***

I got my rail a few months back and I see this new spacer in the recoil assembly. Do I need it? what gives.

See past few pages that discusses it. The spacer was made for those with Saiga's. You can dremel it off and replace with a blackjack. I think there's a way to dremel it so you don't need a blackjack as well.

Jabtac has 10 in stock right now

You can always trade the recoil spring button with someone who got the newer ones with the spacer and doesn't want it.  I haven't decided whether I want to stick with the spacer or remove it.

Yeah, about that. . .

Has anybody done this?  Could you post a photo?

I'll try to get some photos up later this week

I finally had a chance to take my TWS rail out to the range and make some initial observations.  The first thing I noticed is that the rail seems to hold zero pretty well when opening and closing the top cover, although I plan to do some more rigorous testing to confirm this.

The downside is that when I got home, I noticed a couple of issues.  

1. The first is that I am getting some wear on the edge the top cover right above the safety to the point that a burr is developing along the edge.  


My guess is that this is from spent casings being ejected.  My concern is, aside from the aesthetic issue of wearing away the metal on the edge of the cover, is that it might interfere with the ejection pattern and cause a malfunction.  

2. The second issue I'm concerned about is that the bolt carrier seems to be slamming into the spacer with enough force to put some wear on the "nose" of the bolt carrier (for lack of a better term) to where bare metal is showing.  Also, there are indentations on the spacer where the bolt carrier is striking it as shown in the pictures below.  





3. The third issue also related to the spacer is that the top of the spacer seems to be putting indentations into the inside of the top cover.  Also, the spacer prevents the recoil spring button from seating all the way back in the rear of the trunnion groove.  It seems like it might be better to do away with the spacer altogether.


Thoughts?  I really want to make this top cover work, but I think the spacer issue needs to be resolved.  Also, some material might need to be removed from the area of the top cover that is interfering with ejection.

Well I got my rail from Suarez about a month ago (seems like anyway) and put it on the day I got it.  I had never even taken the dust cover off an AK before but after coming up with the exact same trick someone a page or so ago did with a C clamp I got the unit installed.

Considering there were no instruction in the box it went pretty smooth.  I made absolutely no mods and did no grinding and it fits my Centurion perfectly (I know, everyone here hates the Centurion).

First thing I did was put a compact ACOG on it becuase it wasn't being used for anything else.  I couldn't get it on paper with that because it ran out of travel so I put on my EOTech from one of my ARs and got it dialed in nicely.  Shoots the hell out of a 1" square at 50 yards and is rock solid.  Now to push it out further.  

http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b458/flaps10/86f3d8be.jpg

I'm seeing the same thing on mine, an SGL 21.  I'm not so worried about the rub on the top cover, I can file that off and repaint...but the spacer has me concerned.  I understand the spacer was added for Saiga rifles.  Mine is basically a Saiga but I'm thinking the spacer needs to go.  For Rafaga or anyone else that can state definitively, is the spacer a must?  What is the downside of removing it?  

Yeah, it's the spacer that has me concerned too.  Are you getting the same kind of wear on the back of your bolt carrier that I'm getting?  I'm worried it is going to damage it if it hasn't already.

Great, Mine should be shipping today. This has me just jumping with joy. $149 waste of $.

I don't think it is a waste of $.  I just think the spacer issue needs to be resolved.  I still think this topcover is the best option out there right now for optics––just needs some minor tweaking.  I'm sure Rafaga will make things right––he seems to be a pretty stand-up guy.

According to TWS, the new ones shipping have the right spacers. So IDK. I'll try it & see when I get it.   I have a basic WASR 10/63 so maybe it will work right out of the box..

I agree with Kalash74.  This is not a waste of money at all.  From my perspective this is the single biggest improvement on the AK series since inception, and Rafaga is G2G in my book.  As a big believer in American ingenuity and the critical importance of small business in our economy, I give him my highest compliments.  Now, back to the spacer.  The "nose" on my bolt carrier is shiny but doesn't appear to be as worn as yours.  From what I can tell I don't think the nose touches the spacer.  I think it is hitting the inside of the recoil spring button.  Never really noticed it before so can't say if the paint was off the nose before I installed the rail or not.  We have lots of AKs in the arms room at work and I'll check them on Monday to see what they look like.  If anybody reading this post has an AK without a TWS rail plz take a look and see if you have any bare metal showing on the nose of the bolt carrier as shown in Kalash74's pics.

Edit.... I picked up the spare piston.  The one I use for my AK does have the wear on it. It's all apart for arrival of the rail. And it does impact the rear a little. There's a faint wear mark.

You know, it's kinda funny how life works out sometimes. It used to be I'd get a few calls a week with people needing some assistance custom fitting their Dog Leg onto their rifle.  Everyone here knows how AK tolerances are all over the map and the new cover design is very precise in how it functions. As you know, it's an easy installation but, it does require at least a little care.

At the same time, folks were pinging me for a solution to the Saiga 308 spacer. So, I found that the Saiga solution would also work to eliminate the need for custom fitting on the various rifles as the new spacer opened up a bunch of room for us.

Great right?   WRONG!!   I stepped on an ant hill with that one. Nothing wrong with the design mind you, I'll explain below. The result is now I get 5 times as many calls from people wanting to know
" Hey, what's this spacer thing all about? Will this work on my regular AK? "

I'll answer the concerns above one by one.
1) The burr at the ejection port is normal. That's where the cartridge strikes the cover on it's way out. We have covers with literally thousands of rounds gone through them and no problems. The material will extrude a little then work harden and no more extrusion. Wear it as a symbol of honor that your weapon is no safe queen

2) Yes, the carrier does slam into the spacer but that's not where the wear on the nose comes from. That shine is from the nose resetting the trigger each time you fire. The travel of the spacer is limited and the nose doesn't contact it. See pics below. The indentations on the spacer are actually from the bolt and not the carrier. The bolt jiggles around a little in the carrier and inertia causes it to protrude a tiny distance from the carrier when the carrier hits the spacer. The spacer is a softer grade of steel than the bolt so the bolt doesn't get damaged.

3) Indentations inside the cover are normal and harmless. The material there is machined a little thicker just for that purpose. With the cover closed the spacer does not prevent the button from seating in the cover. They're designed to work together.  

3A) I am leaning towards agreeing with you on doing away with the spacer but, not for the reasons you indicate. This should be as trouble free and no brainer as possible. Currently, it has turned into a " BRAINER " as evidenced by this post and the number of calls I receive. We can make separate buttons for the Saiga 308 guys, however, that will mean another part number to make and for dealers to stock which introduces an added cost to the 308 guys. I'll try to keep it as low as possible.


This cut-away pic shows the limited swing of the spacer and the extra thick panel to resist it. It can't swing high enough for the reset nose to strike it. If someone fires the weapon without a cover then they're on their own.


With the cover opened.


For comparison here are buttons with and without spacers. The carrier has been machined away to demonstrate the internal clearance.


This last pic shows the tighter clearance when not using a spacer. It's not possible to use the same button with and without the spacer. The slot for the spacer pin requires a thicker body on the button which won't clear the inside of the carrier.

Rafaga, would you accept trades from people who are unhappy with the spacer version?  Not the entire product of course, but just the bit with the button and attached spacer.

Quoted:

Quoted:
[span style='font-size: 8pt;'][span style='font-family: Arial;']I finally had a chance to take my TWS rail out to the range and make some initial observations.  The first thing I noticed is that the rail seems to hold zero pretty well when opening and closing the top cover, although I plan to do some more rigorous testing to confirm this.

The downside is that when I got home, I noticed a couple of issues.  

1. The first is that I am getting some wear on the edge the top cover right above the safety to the point that a burr is developing along the edge. My guess is that this is from spent casings being ejected.  My concern is, aside from the aesthetic issue of wearing away the metal on the edge of the cover, is that it might interfere with the ejection pattern and cause a malfunction.  

2. The second issue I'm concerned about is that the bolt carrier seems to be slamming into the spacer with enough force to put some wear on the "nose" of the bolt carrier (for lack of a better term) to where bare metal is showing.  Also, there are indentations on the spacer where the bolt carrier is striking it as shown in the pictures below.  

3. The third issue also related to the spacer is that the top of the spacer seems to be putting indentations into the inside of the top cover.  Also, the spacer prevents the recoil spring button from seating all the way back in the rear of the trunnion groove.  It seems like it might be better to do away with the spacer altogether.

Thoughts?  I really want to make this top cover work, but I think the spacer issue needs to be resolved.  Also, some material might need to be removed from the area of the top cover that is interfering with ejection.

You know, it's kinda funny how life works out sometimes. It used to be I'd get a few calls a week with people needing some assistance custom fitting their Dog Leg onto their rifle.  Everyone here knows how AK tolerances are all over the map and the new cover design is very precise in how it functions. As you know, it's an easy installation but, it does require at least a little care.

At the same time, folks were pinging me for a solution to the Saiga 308 spacer. So, I found that the Saiga solution would also work to eliminate the need for custom fitting on the various rifles as the new spacer opened up a bunch of room for us.

Great right?   WRONG!!   I stepped on an ant hill with that one. Nothing wrong with the design mind you, I'll explain below. The result is now I get 5 times as many calls from people wanting to know
" Hey, what's this spacer thing all about? Will this work on my regular AK? "

I'll answer the concerns above one by one.
1) The burr at the ejection port is normal. That's where the cartridge strikes the cover on it's way out. We have covers with literally thousands of rounds gone through them and no problems. The material will extrude a little then work harden and no more extrusion. Wear it as a symbol of honor that your weapon is no safe queen

2) Yes, the carrier does slam into the spacer but that's not where the wear on the nose comes from. That shine is from the nose resetting the trigger each time you fire. The travel of the spacer is limited and the nose doesn't contact it. See pics below. The indentations on the spacer are actually from the bolt and not the carrier. The bolt jiggles around a little in the carrier and inertia causes it to protrude a tiny distance from the carrier when the carrier hits the spacer. The spacer is a softer grade of steel than the bolt so the bolt doesn't get damaged.

3) Indentations inside the cover are normal and harmless. The material there is machined a little thicker just for that purpose. With the cover closed the spacer does not prevent the button from seating in the cover. They're designed to work together.  

3A) I am leaning towards agreeing with you on doing away with the spacer but, not for the reasons you indicate. This should be as trouble free and no brainer as possible. Currently, it has turned into a " BRAINER " as evidenced by this post and the number of calls I receive. We can make separate buttons for the Saiga 308 guys, however, that will mean another part number to make and for dealers to stock which introduces an added cost to the 308 guys. I'll try to keep it as low as possible.

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k552/TexWeapSys/PIC_0092.jpg
This cut-away pic shows the limited swing of the spacer and the extra thick panel to resist it. It can't swing high enough for the reset nose to strike it. If someone fires the weapon without a cover then they're on their own.

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k552/TexWeapSys/PIC_0083.jpg
With the cover opened.

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k552/TexWeapSys/PIC_0080.jpg http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k552/TexWeapSys/PIC_0074.jpg
For comparison here are buttons with and without spacers. The carrier has been machined away to demonstrate the internal clearance.

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k552/TexWeapSys/PIC_0072.jpg
This last pic shows the tighter clearance when not using a spacer. It's not possible to use the same button with and without the spacer. The slot for the spacer pin requires a thicker body on the button which won't clear the inside of the carrier.

Hi Nelson,

Thanks for the detailed and informative response to my post.  Just a couple points for clarification:

1. With the extraction issue, do you think the spent brass hitting the cover could be alleviated by cutting back the lip of the cover (where it is developing a burr) as shown in green

or do you think this would negatively impact the design and integrity of the cover?
Do you suggest we file down the burr or just run it as is?

2. I think you are right on the "nose" concerning the bolt carrier (pun intended).  Upon closer inspection, the "nose" does not appear to be contacting the spacer at all.  The rounded indentations in the spacer seem to confirm your story that what is hitting the spacer is the bolt itself from the inertia of the backward travel of the piston.  However, is the amount of wear I am getting on the "nose" of my bolt carrier normal from resetting the trigger?  I never really paid much attention to it before until now.

3. While you may be right that the spacer isn't really causing any real problems, I think many of us might be happier without it.  Sometimes a perceived problem can be just as much of a headache (from your end) as a real problem.

Any progress on the Yugo version?

Rafaga, I just got mine and I love it! It is as lightweight as the Ultimak, allows cowitness like the Ultimak, but can keep all added weight behind the weapon's point of balance and doesn't expose optics to any heat. The fact that you can use a true aperture rear sight is also a huge bonus!

Thanks for addressing the spacer issue here, I was a little concerned about it as well.

I did have one concern that hasn't been addressed yet:

Earlier in this thread,you recommended that one individual remove the spacer and carefully grind down the little 'corners' on the takedown tab, just below the part that the guide rod connects to, until it stopped making contact with the rear of the bolt carrier.

I had a look at this and I don't think it will work, at least not with my SLR-106, because the angle in the rear of my bolt carrier is closer to a vertical angle while the angle on the takedown tab is closer to 45 degrees (if that makes sense). I would have to grind dangerously close to the elongated spacer hole in order to achieve an angle that would prevent the bolt carrier from smashing into the takedown tab every shot (which would be hammering the rear of the top cover).

I think I would prefer to have one without the spacer, could I purchase one?

Leaf spring for the sight leave on or take off? Cause I have tried for 45 minutes to get it on with the leaf spring in place & it will not go on.  The whole end is marred up from me trying.



EDIT...Nevermind I got it. Had to use my BIG C clamp I use for car brakes :)
Fits well. Cover locks as it should.   I did notice the rail is not even. The back is higher then the front. The rail does slope down slighty. Test fire tomorrow.

From your pic, it doesn't look like you've got it on all the way. The cover should fit inside the lip on the rear trunion.  You may need a bit of fitting up front to let it slide fwd just a tad.

Please explain, cause it seems to be on. The button locks in place.

Looks better in that pic. If you've got contact between the bottom rear of the cover and the trunnion and it feels tight you should be good to go. My button protrudes slightly more but your cover position looks just about the same as mine in that pic.

That cover is not on right. It looks like it's not setting all the way down to the bottom of the trunnion groove. Loosen the two bolts on the front tab and adjust the length until the cover sets down properly. The button will then stick out a little further and engage the cover properly.

1) You can trim it away without concern if you like but, I would just run it as is. The only thing that would make any meaningful improvement there is if I put in a case deflector like you see on AR15's. That was considered but, it drives up the cost of the product. Maybe it would be possible to do as a separate optional rivet on piece in a hard plastic of some kind. Don't know yet as it's only a concept.

2)Yes, it's normal.

3) Agreed.

Hmmm, let's see now.  Isn't that a little like taking your one year old car back to the dealer and saying "Hey, you know I never was very happy with the wheels that came on this car. Can I just switch to those new alloys on this year's model?"

I think so. But hey, that's why I'm in the gun business and not the car business. So yes, I'll swap it out for you if you send back the old one and just cover the return shipping on the new one. You'll need to give me a couple of weeks to get material delivered and a new batch made up. I'm sure several others will want in on this so just send me an email so I can build up a list and knock it out at one time.

Cheers