was it really banned? I've noticed the price is sky high compared to 7.62x39

no.

Importation of 7n6 surplus 5.45 was banned because it's "armor-piercing", I believe.  They still import tons of other 5.45 ammo.  I usually buy it from AIM:  http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=AW54539FMJ60&name=WPA+(WOLF)+5.45x39+60grn+FMJ+30rd+box&groupid=33

$6.79 per box of 30.  It's not that expensive.

SGammo is the correct choice for a wide variety of 5.45

yeah they're who I was looking at. I'm torn between the 7.62x39 and 5.45x39. I'm definitely picking up an izhmash saiga this year though. Ammo availability seems to be better with the 7.62 and cheaper is what I'm looking at. Any word of prvi-partizan or someone else getting in on the mix?

I have an arsenal in 5.45x39 and it is a soft recoil rifle that my Wife and
everyone else that shoots it loves. I love it.

I went with 7.62 first, I often wish I'd went with 5.45 after owning both.

When 7n6 was around it was selling for 11-13 cents per round. Now with it's importation banned I see no reason to go with 5.45. 7.62 and 5.45 ammo are the same price, but 7.62 has much more ammo availability, more load choices, and better defensive loads available. Buy the 7.62.

I have had both and will stick with the 5.45x39

Hopefully our next president will get rid of the 7n6 ban.  Down to around 5K rounds.  Need MOAR!

Same here.  Currently have a few of each, and the 5.45 is way better, in my opinion.

If you have ever shot the 5.45x39 you will know the difference.
The 5.45 is the easiest shooting round I've ever shot next to the .22lr.
I saw it coming years ago & stocked up. Most of what I have I picked up for $.10 cents per rd.

5.45 has a flatter trajectory,less recoil for follow up shots,ammo is lighter to being able to carry more.

Buy a can or two of 7n6 for SHTF use,its still available in the private market for less than the commercial offerings per round.

Why would you go into 5.45 now that 7n6 is gone? 7.62 has far more loads much better terminal  ballistics more ammo available more rifles available more magazines available and more optics with BDC reticles available. 5.45 doesn't even have any cheap brass ammo so a 5.45 rifle wouldn't be allowed at an indoor range whereas a 7.62 would. So why 5.45? Because of recoil? 7.62 doesn't recoil all that much anyway and the low recoil of 5.45 was designed to suit full auto fire which most civilians don't have any way. The only thing 5.45 had going for it was 7n6 now that that is gone there is a chance that caliber could slowly die off I would be scared to invest into it myself.

5.45 is a better round in flight, has better BC, and different characteristics in terminal performance than the 7.62. It will get the job done.
In spite of all the hype, the 7.62 we get here, with a few exceptions, is pretty lame. It just flies through unless contacting a bone or the like.
The M67 has kept going. It is a good round. The reintroduction of the 8M3 is promising, along with a few SP rounds from Tula that have manged the test of time but other than that, commercial and expensive were the best choices. They may still be, but that is subjective.
As long as the demand is there, the 5.45 will probably keep going.

7.62 spanks 5.45 in gel tests

7.62 fusion gel test

8m3 gel test

How does two 7.62x39 videos prove your point.

Why did the Soviets switch if it was so great?

I am not the Soviets and I can't explain or answer for what they do. What I can tell you is that those two videos both demonstrate that 7.62 is ballistically superior to 5.45.

The 7.62 is hard hitting as it should be,being a .30 cal round at @124 grains.Sure there are more options in the ammo area,but 7n6 is not hard to find and its cheaper than the commercial 5.45 out there.
Buy it and stack it up for a rainy day and shoot the commercial 5.45 for practice,etc

What that nets you is a rainbow like trajectory with the heavy round,and much more recoil over a 5.45

7n6 being banned is not the death of 5.45 by a long shot,sure its a bit harder to get the ammo but who here that shoots has only a few hundred rounds in the their ammo fort?Plenty of vendors have 5.45 available in many flavors.

Its not going anywhere anytime soon.I love the 7.62 but love the 5.45 even more.

I'll take the ballistics of 7.62's 8m3 or Fusion over 7n6 or any commercial variant of 5.45.

Whoever said you have to shoot 5.45 to know why is dead on. Take a semi 5.45 out to 300 or 400m and see how fast you can shoot accurately compared to a 7.62.



With those rounds it's not an apples to apples comparison with 5.45. 7N6 has a steel penetrator and yaws on impact to produce the wound channel. 8M3 and Fusion...both of those rounds are effectively hollow points. You lose the intermediate barrier penetration and still have the rainbow arc of the 7.62 with slower followup shots. Doubtful either round will do anything against body army either

Sure you can make 7.62 a big fat hollow point but again you lose the only real advantage it has which is penetration.

7.62x39 Federal Fusion = bonded core barrier blind round

Plase explain to me how I would lose intermediate barrier penetration with a bonded core barrier blind load?

There is no free lunch in projectiles, even with barrier blind. You are reducing the penetration power to about the same as a pistol round. It's true they will deform after passing through something, but they still do not have the penetration power of an FMJ. Show me a test where someone fires through a similar amount of wood that an FMJ can and then has the same penetration in ballistic gell. I'm not arguing that barrier blind does better than pure hollow points but again there is no free lunch.

It's always a toss up...more tissue damage, or more penetration






Z

Bur 5.45 is flatter shooting and far more accurate.

Terminal ballistics aren't the only kind of ballistics.

Set up your gel blocks at 100 yards.  The 7.62x39mm  usually shows zero penetration of the gel.


('Cause misses don't penetrate.)

The penetration common of FMJ's are not necessary to meet FBI protocol of at least 12". In fact FMJ's often over penetrate.  You are acting as if  a lack of penetration is an issue with bonded core barrier blind loads when they must penetrate a barrier prior to tissue. When in fact testing shows otherwise.

Non the less my original statements were that 7.62 offers loads which spank any 5.45 load in terms of terminal ballistics. I stand by those statements. The problem with 5.45 is that there are no loads in the caliber which can match the ballistics of modern loads available for other calibers.

There no way I'd buy a 5.45 after the importation ban of 7n6, and now that suplus 7n6 is not available at surplus prices. The caliber was a one trick pony, it had 10 cent per round ammo which is now gone.

Meanwhile 5.45 owners see the detriment that the loss of suplus 7n6 has the potential to do to their caliber, given that 5.45 ammunition has had a 100% price increase. All they can do is offer empty promises such as "you'd have shoot one to know why we like it", rather than facts which support the caliber as a solid choice. Or slogans to fool the uninformed like "it's the poison bullet", rather than ballistics testing data which show the caliber offers terminal ballistics on par with competing calibers loaded with well chosen ammo because it doesn't. Or hype like "7.62x39 has a rainbow trajectory at 300-400 yards", when in fact the drop difference between 5.45 and 7.62 is 7" more at 300 yards and 15" more at 400 yards. Not terrible to over come once some time is spent practicing. Or incorrect statements like "your 7.62 would miss a gel block at 100 yards", which is a BS statement that I will post a target in response to. Or misinformation designed to confuse such as  "You are reducing the penetration power to about the same as a pistol round". When in fact we rate penetration as specified by FBI protocol,  pistol and rifle rounds are held to the same standards regarding penetration depth, thus a rifle bullet penetrating as far as a pistol round which has passed FBI protocol is actually a good thing.

Below are some quotes taken from ARF's self defense ammo article. Which can be found here

Lol.

Love to see a target from your 5.45 sir.

My 7.62x39 @ 100 yards averaging 1.78moa

According to the MOA All Day Challenge, it's shooting about the same as a few AR15's.

Groups; center 6 rnds 1.75", top right 4 rnds 1.44", bottom right 4rnds 1.69", top & bottom left 4rnds 3.00". = 10.88"/5=2.18"-.311"=1.865"/1.047=1.78moa average pretty good for an AK with commercial non match brass.



MOA All Day Challenge

Okay.  Four round groups?  What brand of ammo?

If you are ever in Arizona lets go shoot 5.45 versus 7.62, in the field, and see how they compare.

Is that a 100 yard indoor range in your pic?  That must be pricey.

ARFCOM GET  BOTH

i have both and I like the 5.45 a lot better

I have cases of 7n6 and commercial too

.

This.

Have both love both,but prefer 5.45

If SHTF i am grabbing my BCM 14.5" AR with Speer Gold Dot 64 gn

yep

I'm kind of disappointed I thought you would have posted a target from your 5.45.

Posting a picture of a target proves nothing. People are not always truthful. 

I don't participate in the MoA Challenge or similar postings because they are non-validated targets and you often see claims made that fall outside the known repeatable capabilities of an ammo/gun combo.  Anyone can shoot 50 yard targets and post "100 yard groups" or shoot 25 groups and cherry pick a handful of the best.  Look at the whole fiasco with the Minnesota guy.
As far as the MoA Challenge, does the target you've posted even qualify for it?

The fact is that 5.45 has a better BC and a higher velocity, with a lower max ordinate.  For practical purposes, a 5.45 AK will outshoot a 7.62x39 AK in the field, "all day every day," if the criteria is practical marksmanship (hits), especially at unknown distances.  I would certainly agree that with the ammo you can buy in the US, 7.62 has better terminal effects.  Kind of a moot point, since I wouldn't grab an AK as a serious work rifle when I have many better options.

A 7.62x39mm AK that consistently and repeatably shoots under 2MoA is pretty awesome and I'd like to see it.  Military grade 5.56 ammo isn't capable of shooting into 2MoA consistently, so your 1.75  AK with "non-match ammo" is quite impressive.  What kind of rifle is it?

Anyway.  Next time you are in Arizona bring your rifle.  We will go shooting.



Finally, I like AKs in all calibers too.

True but I didn't figure he would keep a BS pic handy of a target with .220 holes in it to produce on demand to make exorbitant claims on the net.

So you agree with me that 5.45 has worse terminal performance compared 7.62. Interesting how you are not concerned with terminal ballistics on your 5.45, a rifle which is by design a fighting rifle.

You also agree with me that 7.62 can be just as if not more accurate than 5.45, mainly due to some brass being more accurate than steel, and 5.45 having no brass. The target was shot with my M70AB2.

At realistic ranges out to 400 yards both calibers will shoot about the same 15" of drop separating them. So drop is a moot point. Remember long range shooters compensate for hundreds of inches of drop and still hit so an extra 15" is pocket change.  At extended range 5.45 will have the same energy as a 22LR anyway. However 7.62 will have 66% more energy than 5.45 at 400 yards.

Also Hornady lists the following BC's 7.62--0.295 / 5.45---0.285. The difference between BC's of these calibers is also a moot point.

If you're ever in CO sure we can go shooting, bring money and your steel cased ammo we'll see how it stacks up against brass that 5.45 doesn't have. (not an open offer to everyone on the internet).

I'd feel pretty well armed with either.

5.45VMAX looks pretty good....




Like I said, ARFCOM GET BOTH

Cool.

If you think those are good groups on that target of yours, you are sadly mistaken. Good groups
will repeat from target to target. Your patterns are all over.

VMAX is a varmit round, varmit rounds are designed for shallow penetration due to the size of small critters. VMAX is not designed to pass FBI protocol or achieve enough penetration to reach human vitals reliably.  5.45 VMAX doesn't always meet FBI protocol.

Youtube 5.45 VMAX 9" penetration = fail

Sure.

Sure is not. You really are in denial and must not have much experience
in shooting good groups.

Accuracy is repeatable, getting 4 unrelated 4 shot groups around 2" is luck.

agian.......

Again

Sure is not. You really are in denial and must not have much experience
in shooting good groups.

Accuracy is repeatable, getting 4 unrelated 4 shot groups around 2" is luck.

Too bad you cannot speak for yourself and admit that those are not good groups and
are lucky that you got 4 unrelated "groups" around 2" on one target

And again..................

Dude...  read that quote very carefully.  Very carefully.  Do you see an implied subtext in there?

I even mentioned, nicely, earlier in the thread, that you were shooting four round groups.

If you took all those groups and overlayed them, you'd be about 4".  Which is very respectable for a M70, and within its actual capabilities.

OP decide for yourself. Shoot both and see what you think.

Don't worry about cost of ammo as is not that much different between either.

normally, in 223/556, I agree with you, . . . . but in the video I posted above, it penetrated 15"

who knows.

I'll grab my 6.8SPC AR over 7.62x39 or 5.45 every time.
.

What do you mean read carefully.  Please show me where I misinterpreted your quote.