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Posted: 2/17/2016 7:57:02 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
A couple years I posted this question and the consensus was Golden Tiger. Since then I am hearing a lot about dead primers. This scares me. What is the best stock piling SHTF ammo out there right now? I'd prefer lacquer sealed but at least sealed primers and non corrosive. People grabbed the Yugo corrosive stuff for a reason. It's brass. Seriously, these steel cased rounds will rust, leave one outside in a shed or dog house. An empty case will do. Better yet, go to a range and look at all of the rusted crap laying on the ground. fwiw |
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Posted: 2/17/2016 8:42:19 AM EDT
[#2]
I think Corrosive wouldn't be wise for a SHTF stash, unless you already have a bunch of it. Obviously it's better than nothing, but I'd say Wolf Classic hollow points if not Golden Tiger.
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Posted: 2/17/2016 9:29:26 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think Corrosive wouldn't be wise for a SHTF stash, unless you already have a bunch of it. Obviously it's better than nothing, but I'd say Wolf Classic hollow points if not Golden Tiger. Why not corrosive? There's a reason the primers are corrosive. |
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Posted: 2/17/2016 2:19:15 PM EDT
[#4]
It I know they say that it lasts longer but under extreme conditions it might not be possible to clean the gun for some time.
Sure you can pour water on it but you also need proper oils, etc. to clean the gun which might not be readily available. As treasured as the guns will be if the communists gets elected this time, I wouldn't risk firing corrosive ammo through them anyways. |
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Posted: 2/17/2016 4:10:44 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It I know they say that it lasts longer but under extreme conditions it might be possible to clean the gun for some time. Sure you can pour water on it but you also need proper oils, etc. to clean the gun which might not be readily available. As treasured as the guns will be if the communists gets elected this time, I wouldn't risk firing corrosive ammo through them anyways. Golden Tiger is the best I've found outside of brass. http://sgammo.com/product/golden-tiger/1000-round-case-762x39-fmj-bt-golden-tiger-124-grain-russian-ammo Case is lacquer coated as well as the primer and bullet. They got lazy and missed a few bullets, but close enough. I wouldn't want to store Tula long term, and Golden Tiger is well worth the extra penny or two per round. I'm not planning for any shtf, but I see some cockroaches going after ammo a way of eliminating the people's rights. It's not going to get cheaper as time continues. If I was king for a day, I'd produce some 7.62x39 just like M193, sealed primer and bullet in a brass case. https://survivalblog.com/waterproofing_and_long-term_storage_of_small_arms_ammunition_by_nebraska_farmer/ |
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Posted: 2/17/2016 5:11:42 PM EDT
[#6]
Would the ammo in Spam cans be less likely to corrode over time?
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Posted: 2/17/2016 5:32:52 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would the ammo in Spam cans be less likely to corrode over time? Being that its sealed it should be good. |
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Posted: 2/17/2016 8:48:50 PM EDT
[#8]
What of the dead primers in Golden Tiger?
What is the general consensus on Brown Bear for SHTF? |
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Posted: 2/17/2016 11:40:37 PM EDT
[#9]
It appears that some have had issues recently with GT not going bang, but each round had a good primer strike. I read the response by SG and the comment on Arsenal rifles,
but this situation is happening to other makes as well, and not just isolated to Arsenal and the SLFP. I have shot many thousands of rounds through Arsenals in the past with GT without ANY failures, so at this point, it appears there are bad lots of GT floating around. With that said, I did purchase several cases last year, but I haven't shot any of it yet. Looks like I'm going to try to get to the range here soon with the '15 GT to see how it goes. With me luck 
Definitely a primer issue. https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_121/690254_.html&page=1 2015 The year of the GT dud. 
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_64/160551_Golden_Tiger_7_62_Primer.html http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249796 http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2769541&postcount=56 |
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Posted: 2/18/2016 3:38:07 AM EDT
[#10]
Let me know how it goes ok?
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Posted: 2/18/2016 3:50:21 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let me know how it goes ok? I'll definitely post my results. All these current reports are a bit discouraging though. Fingers crossed! |
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Posted: 2/18/2016 6:48:16 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It I know they say that it lasts longer but under extreme conditions it might not be possible to clean the gun for some time. Sure you can pour water on it but you also need proper oils, etc. to clean the gun which might not be readily available. As treasured as the guns will be if the communists gets elected this time, I wouldn't risk firing corrosive ammo through them anyways. In a true SHTF scenario, water will probably be the only thing available with which to clean your weapon, so I guess I don't follow your logic. If you believe you need "proper oils, etc." to clean your gun, how would that be any different with non-corrosive ammo? The only difference between a corrosive vs. non-corrosive cleaning regime is the addition of a water flush. Once you've flushed the the salts from the weapon with water, the cleaning process is the same with either type of ammo. |
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Posted: 2/18/2016 7:03:49 PM EDT
[#13]
The entire corrosive, non corrosive issue cracks me the hell up...2 World Wars were fought entirely with corrosive ammo. They were in the worst climate extremes you can think of - coldest of cold to hottest of hot...arid to humidity from hell. Due to a variety of conditions - weapons had to have gone for short (sometimes long) periods without being cleaned. Are they all dark, corroded stove pipes today? NO. I've always shot corrosive ammo whether it is 1940's M1, WW2 surplus German 8mm, Chinese surplus 7.62x39, Russian/Chinese 7.62x25, and yes massive quantities of Yugo M67..never had a problem, never will. Yes, I have cans and cans of old USGI WW2 milky white bore cleaner around my gun room:)
Now to be on topic, my 7.62x39 SHTF list consists quite simply of any and all 7.62x39 I find that I believe is priced well - so I have quite a few different kinds including Yugo M67, Chinese Steel Core, Golden Tiger, Wolf, Tula, MFS, Privi Partizan, Hornady, and God knows what else. |
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Posted: 2/19/2016 8:53:34 AM EDT
[#14]
Ahhh, leave it to a Texan to make sense of it all. Diversify your ammo to avoid issues with one kind. This is one of the few
times you'll see me type that I like 'diversification'. 
Do not fear corrosive!! |
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Posted: 2/19/2016 7:36:48 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The entire corrosive, non corrosive issue cracks me the hell up...2 World Wars were fought entirely with corrosive ammo. They were in the worst climate extremes you can think of - coldest of cold to hottest of hot...arid to humidity from hell. Due to a variety of conditions - weapons had to have gone for short (sometimes long) periods without being cleaned. Are they all dark, corroded stove pipes today? NO. I've always shot corrosive ammo whether it is 1940's M1, WW2 surplus German 8mm, Chinese surplus 7.62x39, Russian/Chinese 7.62x25, and yes massive quantities of Yugo M67..never had a problem, never will. Yes, I have cans and cans of old USGI WW2 milky white bore cleaner around my gun room:) Now to be on topic, my 7.62x39 SHTF list consists quite simply of any and all 7.62x39 I find that I believe is priced well - so I have quite a few different kinds including Yugo M67, Chinese Steel Core, Golden Tiger, Wolf, Tula, MFS, Privi Partizan, Hornady, and God knows what else. You do realize that after World War II there was a massive effort to refurbish and re barrel World War II issue M1 Garands and 1911 pistols along with other firearms that did not have chrome line bores. I have seen lots of military surplus firearms that has suffered the nasty effect of corrosive primers the only ones that I have found that escape this fate were the ones that were either never issued to troops and used in anger, or ones that had chrome lined bores that were able to resist the corrosive effects of the salts. With that said proper cleaning negates all of these effects, but in a war zone proper cleaning was usually not on the top list of priorities. I have fired a lot of corrosive ammo through Mauser's, Mosins and other various surplus rifles and handguns and as long as I clean them within about 24 hours there was no permanent damage to the bores and they remained bright and shiny. |
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Posted: 2/19/2016 8:13:24 PM EDT
[#16]
I'm not trying to start an argument or knock anyone's choice of ammunition but I have seen a few older firearms completely destroyed by firing corrosive ammo and failing to clean promptly.
If you watch AK operators union there are at least two videos where they say that they began to see rust on the muzzle break and gas block, etc. in less than 24 hours. Of course flushing it with water helps but without some good oil, water too will cause rust after a few days. Hell if Armageddon breaks out and corrosive ammo is all you have, then by all means use it BUT when there are equally good choices out there in non-corrosive form, why not opt for that instead? |
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Posted: 2/20/2016 12:09:00 AM EDT
[#17]
Worst case scenario it won't matter and just having bullets will be an asset.
Bad rounds can happen with any type of ammo. That's why malfunction drills are important. Just get what you can afford and don't store hundreds or thousands of dollars worth of ammo in conditions that may compromise it. Also have plans on maintaining your equipment should you need to use it for real. |
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Posted: 2/20/2016 3:52:52 AM EDT
[#18]
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/#bookmark4
If the above article is any indication, the bigger issue is steel jacket bullets vs brass/gilding metal bullets. Wolf steel, Tula, and Brown Bear are compared to Federal American Eagle in the 55 grain FMJ round. 10K rounds of each are fired through a Bushmaster carbine with chrome lined bores each. 40 thousand rounds fired through four carbines in the Arizona desert in June. Chronograph and piezo pressure monitors used throughout the shoot. Which barrel lasted the longest? The one firing the Federal brass, gilding metal jacket bullets. After 10K rounds fired, it retained the ability to deliver 4 inch groups and lost only 100fps velocity. Wolf and BB showed substantial worsening of groups after four thousand to six thousand rounds, to group sizes of a foot or so after 10K. Tula, at least at the time of the test, developed functioning problems due to unusually high chamber pressures. I would guess at the use of powder better used for 7.62x39 like 2200 or 680. Though .223 Remington isn't exactly like 7.62x39, I believe the results are scalable given comparable rounds from the same brands exist for 7.62x39. If a similar test were to be conducted with BB, Tula and Wolf and Yugo M67 were substituted for Federal AE in 7.62x39 and the rifles used were Arsenals, the same results would occur. Cleaning supplies would be needed regardless of ammo selection. Perhaps long term barrel wear and a barrel replacement program should be factored into preps. |
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Posted: 2/20/2016 5:01:59 AM EDT
[#19]
I stockpiled copper wash Chinese and Romanian. Some Czech
Mainly because it is what I could get |
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Posted: 2/20/2016 11:09:17 AM EDT
[#20]
Yugo M67 is my stash ammo, and frankly you can do a field expedient cleaning with damn near any petroleum based product to minimize rust and remove fowling. If you're in a situation where the best you have is water then you're in so deep that it probably doesn't matter if you clean it or not..
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Posted: 2/20/2016 12:26:52 PM EDT
[#21]
How much ammo can you haul? Bug in or bug out? I see no issue with stocking non corrosive for SHTF in a reasonable amount, leaving it alone. Everything else is training. Most of us will be dead before we run out of ammo in any SHTF situation.
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Posted: 2/20/2016 4:35:12 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yugo M67 is my stash ammo, and frankly you can do a field expedient cleaning with damn near any petroleum based product to minimize rust and remove fowling. If you're in a situation where the best you have is water then you're in so deep that it probably doesn't matter if you clean it or not.. M67 here also. I figure I can just wring the piss outta my pants.  
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Posted: 2/21/2016 9:38:59 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would the ammo in Spam cans be less likely to corrode over time? That's probably the best deal today. The spam cans only cost a little more than without a spam can. All that ammo in spam cans isn't any good in shtf, it's not ready in magazines. My original point was that to me, shtf ammo is defined as the most reliable ammunition you can depend on, already loaded into magazines. Corrosive primers are more reliable than commercial primers. Steel cased ammunition will rust, all the different coatings may slow it down, but it will rust. Instead of the most reliable ammunition, it seems the thread has turned to the mostest for the cheapest....and nothing wrong with that at all. |
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Posted: 2/21/2016 7:20:22 PM EDT
[#24]
In an related story I am still shooting some guys Y2K stash that I bought at a gunshow years ago for $60 per K packed in .50 cal cans . They had all been stored in a basement and it had flooded . One can had seen water intrusion and had rusty cases , they still had a 97-99% go bang rate even with funky rust on them
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Posted: 2/21/2016 9:58:01 PM EDT
[#25]
This topic kills me. Just go buy some ammo, seal it up and go watch Red Dawn.
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Posted: 2/23/2016 7:41:21 PM EDT
[#26]
In a real SHTF scenario, you'd be well advised to avoid firefights altogether. You're far better served by stockpiling as a hedge against increases in ammo prices than by stockpiling against decreases in the rule of law.
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Posted: 2/23/2016 8:23:09 PM EDT
[#27]
Lapua
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Posted: 2/25/2016 2:27:49 PM EDT
[#28]
For me it is the Uly hp stuff from years back that fragments really well.
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Posted: 2/26/2016 5:35:40 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In a real SHTF scenario, you'd be well advised to avoid firefights altogether. You're far better served by stockpiling as a hedge against increases in ammo prices than by stockpiling against decreases in the rule of law. + 1 |
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Posted: 2/27/2016 1:33:17 AM EDT
[#30]
Why do you have a weapon without a cleaning kit? Somebody has a 1k Arsenal AK, ruskie Bakelite 40rd mags, and not a $15 cleaning kit? WTF, over? Every weapon that you expect to use in SHTF needs an cleaning kit and load bearing equipment associated with it. Otherwise it is just a range toy. I even have load bearing equipment for my old WWII bolt guns. Because zombies.... or some such.
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Posted: 2/27/2016 1:32:05 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For me it is the Uly hp stuff from years back that fragments really well. This I have @3k of the 8M3 rounds stashed just for this. |
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Posted: 2/28/2016 3:35:09 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
+ 1 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In a real SHTF scenario, you'd be well advised to avoid firefights altogether. You're far better served by stockpiling as a hedge against increases in ammo prices than by stockpiling against decreases in the rule of law. + 1 + 2 |
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Posted: 3/3/2016 6:14:36 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In a real SHTF scenario, you'd be well advised to avoid firefights altogether. You're far better served by stockpiling as a hedge against increases in ammo prices than by stockpiling against decreases in the rule of law. The end result is the same, more ammo. 
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Posted: 3/3/2016 7:09:59 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The end result is the same, more ammo.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In a real SHTF scenario, you'd be well advised to avoid firefights altogether. You're far better served by stockpiling as a hedge against increases in ammo prices than by stockpiling against decreases in the rule of law. The end result is the same, more ammo.
Yes, but if you're stockpiling as a hedge against price increases/decrease in availability, you buy the cheapest ammo available at the time and/or the ammo you shoot the most. Things like corrosive primers and terminal ballistics aren't nearly as important. When the going rate for 7.62x39 is $0.50/rd., no one gives a shit if it's Tula. |
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Posted: 3/10/2016 5:53:17 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll definitely post my results. All these current reports are a bit discouraging though. Fingers crossed! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Let me know how it goes ok? I'll definitely post my results. All these current reports are a bit discouraging though. Fingers crossed! Time for an update. Since I last posted I broke open a new 2015 case of GT. Admittedly due to some unfavorable reviews, I wasn't exactly sure what to expect. Out of 750 rounds, I had no failures of any kind out of my Arsenal AK. GT has always been my go-to-ammo for many years, and I will continue buying it, shooting it, and hoarding it. 
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Posted: 4/7/2016 1:55:03 AM EDT
[#36]
To me, SHTF ammo means a good intersection of price, terminal effect, and accuracy. I think S&B 123 gr soft point does that pretty well.
https://youtu.be/tZD3kIeGaUs Just about any 120ish grain soft point should work really well, though.
https://youtu.be/N7E-qY9-DE0 |
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Posted: 4/7/2016 10:22:13 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This I have @3k of the 8M3 rounds stashed just for this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
For me it is the Uly hp stuff from years back that fragments really well. This I have @3k of the 8M3 rounds stashed just for this. This is hard stuff to find nowadays. I got lucky scoring some 8HP recently from a member on AKFiles (still very good, though 8M3 is better), but no such luck with 8M3 online or in local pawn shops. Damn shame we stopped getting it, such great ammo. |
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Posted: 4/8/2016 2:52:19 AM EDT
[#38]
Red Army Standard has their "elite" 7.62
Made in Bosnia at Igman. Non corrosive and has the M67 projectile. I don't think it is easy to find though. |
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Posted: 4/8/2016 8:24:23 PM EDT
[#39]
I like the lacquer coated wolf, you could always store a bunch in vacuum sealed bags if you are that worried about it.
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Posted: 4/16/2016 1:16:07 AM EDT
[#40]
Best? Whatever goes BANG.
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Posted: 5/21/2016 11:54:49 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Best? Whatever goes BANG. I like this mans thinking! Anyway, I got more then enough Tula and Wolf saved up. Whenever I go to walmart I usually buy a box or two of tula and when I stop at the gun store I grab a few boxes of wolf. I also got 4 boxes of Hornady SST put back.....idk why, stuff's like $30-$40 a box of 50 |
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