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Posted: 4/23/2014 3:24:05 PM EDT
Ballistic Advantage Facebook post:






***IMPORTANT***






Just wanted to give everyone a heads up. We have received a number of calls about cycling problems with 55 grain PolyFormance WPA Wolf ammo made by Barnaul. After some research we have discovered that the ammo is incorrectly loaded with a 5.56 projectile in a 5.45 case. This is only for the 55 grain, not the 60 grain. We are in contact with Wolf to resolve the problem - we will keep you updated.
If you are using this 55 grain ammo please cease use immediately and contact whomever you purchased it through and let them know the issue.
-BA

 

 
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 6:23:26 PM EDT
[#1]
Any word on what the exact cycling issue is?
Now I'm going to have to pay attention in future purchases.
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 7:22:09 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 4/23/2014 9:47:46 PM EDT
[#3]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I do not believe this is totally correct. To the best of my knowledge that ammo is correctly loaded as intended by the factory. Barnaul (the factory) has made this same identical load in 55gr SP and HP for over a decade and they have always used a shorter projectile of similar OAL to a 223 projectile but properly sized down for the 5.45 barrel. Like most 5.45 ammo it is intended to be used in the AK74 and works flawlessly in such rifles. In some of the AR-15 conversions it does not work right because those conversions are new and have not had all the bugs worked out. Specifically, with some of these units the mags and uppers were designed and tested only with FMJ mil-spec loads and may not feed well with the slightly shorter hunting/sporting 5.45 loads like the 55 grain soft point and the hollow point, but it is really an issue with the 5.45 cal upper and mags not being properly designed to be used with the full line of ammunition manufactured in this caliber. The size and shape of the projectile of the current production is correct and consistent with the past history of this product and nothing is really new or wrong with the ammo itself, it just does not feed well in the AR platform and it was not designed or intended to be used in that platform. Its the same stuff Barnaul has been making for over a decade. The guys making these 5.45 uppers really need to make sure that they work right with all variations of ammo that is produced in this caliber, not just the mil-spec FMJ stuff. I'm not saying it is impossible that Barnaul could mess it up, but I am pretty sure its just as simple as these guns were set up to shoot 7N6 or other military spec rounds, not the sporting rounds that are loaded with a shorter projectile and they may need a different magazine for that ammo to work, or adjustments in the upper for proper feeding



View Quote
Thanks for the insight from the industry perspective Sam

 
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 1:41:08 PM EDT
[#4]
The question is not whether this ammo has worked previously in other rifles with loose tolerances but whether or not the ammo is loaded correctly to the proper SAAMI/CIP spec. Our findings at this point are that it is not - thus our warning. We have tested our barrels with every 5.45 load available and the only ammo we've found to be suspect are recent lots of WPA 55 grain Polyformance ammo. While a shorter projectile might affect feeding from the magazine it will not have any negative affect on its ability to seat in the chamber. We definitely encourage you to mic your ammo. Also, we heard from one of our costumers that after he spoke to a Wolf rep, that he believed it was loaded incorrectly and the rep refunded his money.  Customer safety is far more importance to us than sales, we have only issued this as a preemptive warning.



ETA: CIP Standard
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 3:35:56 PM EDT
[#5]
So can someone pull a bullet and mic it , then post the pictures here ?
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 5:21:22 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The question is not whether this ammo has worked previously in other rifles with loose tolerances but whether or not the ammo is loaded correctly to the proper SAAMI spec. Our findings at this point are that it is not - thus our warning. We have tested our barrels with every 5.45 load available and the only ammo we've found to be suspect are recent lots of WPA 55 grain Polyformance ammo. While a shorter projectile might affect feeding from the magazine it will not have any negative affect on its ability to seat in the chamber. We definitely encourage you to mic your ammo. Also, we heard from one of our costumers that after he spoke to a Wolf rep, that he believed it was loaded incorrectly and the rep refunded his money.  Customer safety is far more importance to us than sales, we have only issued this as a preemptive warning.
View Quote


The only reported issues are with your barrels?
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 10:43:52 PM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 4/25/2014 8:25:17 AM EDT
[#8]
I've put about 500 rounds of this stuff through an slr 105 and an sgl 31 with no issues.  It's a bit more accurate than the various barnual 60gr flavors.  I have used EG, circle 21, Russian and tapco mags and I make sure the rounds are pressed all the way back in the mag so that there is a gap in the front of the mag.  Still, if these are somehow out of spec I'd obviously want to know.  
Link Posted: 4/25/2014 8:48:01 AM EDT
[#9]
So, this is not a 5.56 bullet loaded in a 5.45x39 case, as OP reported?
Link Posted: 4/25/2014 5:59:21 PM EDT
[#10]
Is there even a SAAMI spec for commercial 5.45mm?  Has BA mic'd the SP rounds in question?  BTW, my old Barnaul HP 55 grain from several years ago doesn't run well in AR uppers either.  That includes two from S&W I used to have and my current one from BA.

Don't get me wrong, I love my BA upper, which runs flawlessly with the longer bullets and is so accurate you'll throw away your AK-74s !  I would recommend it to anyone (and have) .  But I side with Sam on this one.  Based on the above three uppers from two different manufacturers using multiple brands & bullet types.

P.S.  Have been shooting 5.45mm since 1997.
Link Posted: 4/28/2014 8:45:52 PM EDT
[#11]
Here's what I know, and I don't reload, so I really don't have much in the way of testing this. I purchased Wolf 55gr. ammo, and when testing it at the range, it caused a bolt jam. I had to hit the charging handle on my AR(built using a Ballistic Advantage upper) with a rubber mallet to knock it loose. Then I had to use a set of tweezers to work the cartridge loose as it was stuck in the chamber(technically a set of computer chip pullers, the notches on the ends gave me just enough leverage to get the cartridge out). I tried this a few times with three different rounds, all had the same result. I recently ordered Red Army Standard 69gr ammo, it feeds perfectly. I provided quite a few pics to Ballistic Advantage, and they advised me about the ammo problem. I'm inclined to believe them. I've sent two emails now to Wolf(one via their contact us link on the website, another via their Return Authorization email that's on their website) and have not heard anything back from them as of yet.



Here's a few pics comparing the various ammo types I have for a sense of scale.



Picture 1:

Wolf 55gr 5.45, LC 149gr 7.62, Wolf 55gr 5.45, LC 55gr 5.56, Wolf 55gr. 5.45





Picture 2:

LC 149gr 7.62, RedArmy 69gr 5.45, Wolf 55gr 5.45, LC 55gr 5.56, RedArmy 69gr 5.45





I've only recently gotten in to shooting non-US calibers, and this is my first foray in to the 5.45x39 world... naturally I didn't pick the easiest way by building an AR to shoot in instead of just buying an AK :)
Link Posted: 4/29/2014 8:50:20 AM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 4/29/2014 7:25:26 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I bought digital calibers over the weekend and measured the 55 SP and some 60 FMJ variations, as well as some different wolf 223 and there is a substantial and consistent difference. Like I said in my first post the size the bullet diameter down for the 5.45 loads. I think the issue in the AR15 is they are trying to tighten tolerances up to make the guns more accurate, but this cuts into reliability with some of the non-mil spec loads that they had not planned on being used. Perhaps the rifling in the throat is cut a little bit closer to the chamber and is engaging the projectile as it is chambered ? It might not be an issue on the long skinny FMJ projectiles but with the short/fat SP and HP loads it causes problems. I talked to my sales rep at Wolf about it friday and they said they had examined some of the returns and "that ammo was designed and intended for AK74 and will work flawlessly, but is going to have issues in the ARs". Barnual has been making this same ammo for a very long time, and the AR guns in 5.45 are almost a brand new thing, I'm pretty sure the reliability issue is something within the firearms tighter tolerances being used to make for better accuracy
View Quote


I bought a few hundred rounds from you guys of the WPA 55 gr HP.  It has worked fine so far, but I'm just worried about causing an explosion in my gun from a stuck round or damage to the barrel from 5.56 diameter rounds in a 5.45 case.  From what you are saying, the bullet diameter itself is the same as 7n6 and other commercially produced 5.45.  Can you confirm this?

I just want to stay safe, I'm less concerned about feeding and more concerned about damage to my barrel and/or myself.
Link Posted: 4/30/2014 4:32:39 AM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 5/11/2014 7:08:11 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
For $30 at any auto parts store you could buy a set of digital calibers just like i did and measure yourself to be sure, but the 5.45 WPA SP I measured was basically the same as the 5.45 FMJ when measured at the case mouth, and substantially smaller than 223. As you go forward on the bullet the diameter of the SP does not start to taper down as quickly, so I think that the issue is that the SP/HP bullet may be engaging the rifling in the throat on the AR's. The diameter of the 223 and 5.45 projectiles is very close to the same to start with, but the factory sizes down the projectile for 5.45 to make them slightly thinner than the 223. I'm not 100% sure its safe in 100% the AR's because something about how they are building some of those guns is causing problems with this ammo. They made this ammo for the AK74 market and those guns are built a little looser to improve reliability, the AR's seem to be built a little tighter for better accuracy, and somewhere in the set up is an issue that is causing problems with this ammo
View Quote


What did you get when you measured the 5.45 WPA 55 grain SP?  I have the HP, not sure if it would make a difference.  I'm measuring my 7n6 right around .221 and the WPA 55 SP at around .222.  They are pretty close, but I don't have any 5.56 ammo to compare it to.
Link Posted: 5/19/2014 8:40:40 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I have the ammo in question, got it a long time ago, at least 5 or more years ago.  I have used it in two AK74 rifles made from Bulgarian parts sets with factory barrels.
I noticed right away that that short bullet lead to feeding issues.  I only use it for range ammo.  I would guess one in 100 will not feed correctly.   This is the only ammo that I have had problems with in these rifles.  The OAL is so different compared to the military ammo it looks like a problem waiting to happen.
View Quote

I have some as well or at least I did I might have thrown it away. But it was 5.45 and deff loaded with .223 bullets it was wold steel case.
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