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Posted: 3/6/2012 9:58:28 PM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT I have a few questions and after searching for other topics and stickies didn't find the questions I have addressed. I am an AK newbie so some of this may be obvious to you veterans. I ordered a kit like this: Polish Underfolder Parts Kit I'm going to order a NDS-1P receiver I have all the basic tools most guys have... hammers, drills, Dremel, punches, files, a grinder, a vice. I also have access to a drill press if really needed. My questions:
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Posted: 3/6/2012 11:39:41 PM
Well, I just went through the same process........1st AK build and all. Unfortunately, is does take special tools.....or make your own special tools. I made my own
The things I did buy were, a 20 ton press from Harbor Freight.....$160 w/ the 20% off coupon, and some end mill drill bits....7mm and 4mm...about $30... for the barrel pin and the rear sight-block pin. You may need a third bit for the front sight and the gasblock (not sure what size those are cuz I used a different set up?)
The tools I made were, rivet head jig, rivet press for trunion, rivet press for trigger guard, jig to hold the trunion so I could press in the barrel...........probably saved me a few 100 bucks ?? But, I'm glad I did it. Im now in the process of re-finishing the build........you can check it out, on page 2, in the "srew build" changed to rivet build" thread. I'll post some pics of the tools I built in that thread later Good luck with yours |
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Posted: 3/7/2012 12:04:14 AM
Originally Posted By dirtbikesandguns:
Well, I just went through the same process........1st AK build and all. Unfortunately, is does take special tools.....or make your own special tools. I made my own The things I did buy were, a 20 ton press from Harbor Freight.....$160 w/ the 20% off coupon, and some end mill drill bits....7mm and 4mm...about $30... for the barrel pin and the rear sight-block pin. You may need a third bit for the front sight and the gasblock (not sure what size those are cuz I used a different set up?)
The tools I made were, rivet head jig, rivet press for trunion, rivet press for trigger guard, jig to hold the trunion so I could press in the barrel...........probably saved me a few 100 bucks ?? But, I'm glad I did it. Im now in the process of re-finishing the build........you can check it out, on page 2, in the "srew build" changed to rivet build" thread. I'll post some pics of the tools I built in that thread later Good luck with yours Thanks for the reply. I can understand needing to buy some drill bits. Do they have to be end mill type or will any carbide bit work? I don't have a press unfortunately, is it only needed for pressing the barrel on? If that's the case I think I'll rig up the "Allthread" method instead of spending that kind of money for a press. As far as riveting goes.. this is probably a stupid question (again I'm a total newbie at this) but since I'm not in a hurry to build this, is it possible to rivet everything without a rivet gun and jigs? Like by hand with a hammer? |
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Posted: 3/7/2012 12:36:47 AM
Like by hand with a hammer?
Im sure somebody's tried it, but good luck with that ! eta......just posted tool pics in other thread........... |
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Posted: 3/7/2012 12:45:24 AM
Originally Posted By dirtbikesandguns:
Like by hand with a hammer?
Im sure somebody's tried it, but good luck with that ! eta......just posted tool pics in other thread........... It's been done, and done quite well. Just make sure you practice...A LOT! Hammer Riveting |
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Posted: 3/7/2012 9:26:01 AM
I am getting ready to do the same, but will invest in the correct tools from AK Builder. A few hundred spent will pay off I am sure, particularly as I am going to build a few.
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Posted: 3/7/2012 9:37:08 AM
Originally Posted By AEnemaBay:
Originally Posted By dirtbikesandguns:
Like by hand with a hammer?
Im sure somebody's tried it, but good luck with that ! eta......just posted tool pics in other thread........... It's been done, and done quite well. Just make sure you practice...A LOT! Hammer Riveting Thanks for the link! I'm glad that hammer riveting isn't totally out of the question. I did buy 2 rivet sets for the AK because I had a feeling I'd fuck something up. Anyone else hammer rivet? |
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Posted: 3/7/2012 9:39:00 AM
Watch the EE under the tools and AK parts sections. AK building tools come up regularly due to people getting out over the increase in kit costs. I got mine very reasonable from there. If you live in a big city, look for a press on craigslist. I got mine used in good shape with casters and a base for $70 just a few miles away from me. Whatever you do, buy headspace guages. No other method of determining headspace is adequate. You need a go and a nogo. Anyone that tells you otherwise is feeding you incorrect opinions to make themselves feel better. I did my first build using the empty case and tape method. When I decided I liked AK building and tooled up with good equipment, I found out it was wildly out of spec. Headspace guages aren't expensive and they're very easy to resell. |
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Posted: 3/7/2012 9:51:30 AM
Originally Posted By mustangduckk:
Watch the EE under the tools and AK parts sections. AK building tools come up regularly due to people getting out over the increase in kit costs. I got mine very reasonable from there. If you live in a big city, look for a press on craigslist. I got mine used in good shape with casters and a base for $70 just a few miles away from me. Whatever you do, buy headspace guages. No other method of determining headspace is adequate. You need a go and a nogo. Anyone that tells you otherwise is feeding you incorrect opinions to make themselves feel better. I did my first build using the empty case and tape method. When I decided I liked AK building and tooled up with good equipment, I found out it was wildly out of spec. Headspace guages aren't expensive and they're very easy to resell. Thanks for the tips. I was thinking about the case and tape method for headspacing... It doesn't work? Btw, will any of those 3 barrels i linked in the OP work with this kit? And this is another stupid question.. I've never used headspace gauges before. For pressing a new barrel on, can I get by with just the "no go" gauge? I would think a cartridge would suffice for a "go" gauge. |
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Posted: 3/7/2012 12:51:08 PM
Originally Posted By CheeseHeadNinja:
Originally Posted By mustangduckk:
Watch the EE under the tools and AK parts sections. AK building tools come up regularly due to people getting out over the increase in kit costs. I got mine very reasonable from there. If you live in a big city, look for a press on craigslist. I got mine used in good shape with casters and a base for $70 just a few miles away from me. Whatever you do, buy headspace guages. No other method of determining headspace is adequate. You need a go and a nogo. Anyone that tells you otherwise is feeding you incorrect opinions to make themselves feel better. I did my first build using the empty case and tape method. When I decided I liked AK building and tooled up with good equipment, I found out it was wildly out of spec. Headspace guages aren't expensive and they're very easy to resell. Thanks for the tips. I was thinking about the case and tape method for headspacing... It doesn't work? Btw, will any of those 3 barrels i linked in the OP work with this kit? And this is another stupid question.. I've never used headspace gauges before. For pressing a new barrel on, can I get by with just the "no go" gauge? I would think a cartridge would suffice for a "go" gauge. All three barrels will work, and are in the same general price range. If I was choosing, I'd buy the Romanian from Apex. With that said, I have bought several US barrels and had no problems with any of them. A "no-go" gauge is a very wise idea. Myself, I just use a spent cartridge and no-go gauge. I head-space it tight to the cartridge and check wih the no-go. I have never had a problem with any build using this method. I am not saying this is right for you or anyone else, but it works for me. |
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Posted: 3/7/2012 2:03:35 PM
Just to be on the safe side, I am spending the extra money for the go, and no-go gauges. I would hate for my first build to blow up in my face
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Posted: 3/7/2012 2:58:28 PM
Originally Posted By CheeseHeadNinja:
Originally Posted By mustangduckk:
Watch the EE under the tools and AK parts sections. AK building tools come up regularly due to people getting out over the increase in kit costs. I got mine very reasonable from there. If you live in a big city, look for a press on craigslist. I got mine used in good shape with casters and a base for $70 just a few miles away from me. Whatever you do, buy headspace guages. No other method of determining headspace is adequate. You need a go and a nogo. Anyone that tells you otherwise is feeding you incorrect opinions to make themselves feel better. I did my first build using the empty case and tape method. When I decided I liked AK building and tooled up with good equipment, I found out it was wildly out of spec. Headspace guages aren't expensive and they're very easy to resell. Thanks for the tips. I was thinking about the case and tape method for headspacing... It doesn't work? Btw, will any of those 3 barrels i linked in the OP work with this kit? And this is another stupid question.. I've never used headspace gauges before. For pressing a new barrel on, can I get by with just the "no go" gauge? I would think a cartridge would suffice for a "go" gauge. I'd not want to headspace using a case because not all cases and ammo are exactly the same. The difference between go and nogo is .010" with my gauges. I don't think you could hit that by guessing with a spent casing. Try to make your builds the absolute best you can, not just good enough. You'll be much more proud of the final product. |
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Posted: 3/7/2012 10:01:08 PM
Originally Posted By mustangduckk:
Originally Posted By CheeseHeadNinja:
Originally Posted By mustangduckk:
Watch the EE under the tools and AK parts sections. AK building tools come up regularly due to people getting out over the increase in kit costs. I got mine very reasonable from there. If you live in a big city, look for a press on craigslist. I got mine used in good shape with casters and a base for $70 just a few miles away from me. Whatever you do, buy headspace guages. No other method of determining headspace is adequate. You need a go and a nogo. Anyone that tells you otherwise is feeding you incorrect opinions to make themselves feel better. I did my first build using the empty case and tape method. When I decided I liked AK building and tooled up with good equipment, I found out it was wildly out of spec. Headspace guages aren't expensive and they're very easy to resell. Thanks for the tips. I was thinking about the case and tape method for headspacing... It doesn't work? Btw, will any of those 3 barrels i linked in the OP work with this kit? And this is another stupid question.. I've never used headspace gauges before. For pressing a new barrel on, can I get by with just the "no go" gauge? I would think a cartridge would suffice for a "go" gauge. I'd not want to headspace using a case because not all cases and ammo are exactly the same. The difference between go and nogo is .010" with my gauges. I don't think you could hit that by guessing with a spent casing. Try to make your builds the absolute best you can, not just good enough. You'll be much more proud of the final product. Couldn't you use say, 5-10 cartridges as a "go" gauge? I mean a handful of them will average out and give you a good idea. I'd rather not spend $30 for an item I will only use once if I don't have to. |
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Posted: 3/7/2012 11:09:45 PM
$30.00 is a cheap insurance policy against kaboom
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Posted: 3/7/2012 11:55:28 PM
Originally Posted By poorman:
$30.00 is a cheap insurance policy against kaboom ![]() Hmm. This is true.. It's just getting a little more expensive than I thought. But I guess once I have the stuff I can build more... I think I'm gonna need to find someone with a press. How many different things can you use a press for in an AK build? (like pressing barrel in/out, barrel pin, rear sight pin.. anything else?) |
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Posted: 3/8/2012 12:09:03 AM
Originally Posted By CheeseHeadNinja:
Originally Posted By poorman:
$30.00 is a cheap insurance policy against kaboom ![]() Hmm. This is true.. It's just getting a little more expensive than I thought. But I guess once I have the stuff I can build more... I think I'm gonna need to find someone with a press. How many different things can you use a press for in an AK build? (like pressing barrel in/out, barrel pin, rear sight pin.. anything else?) Riveting, bending receivers from flats, installing and removing barrel components (FSB, FB, ect.), and pretty much everything else you mentioned. Once I got my 20 ton press I don't think I could ever go back. |
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Posted: 3/8/2012 12:11:37 AM
Originally Posted By CheeseHeadNinja:
Originally Posted By mustangduckk:
Originally Posted By CheeseHeadNinja:
Originally Posted By mustangduckk:
Watch the EE under the tools and AK parts sections. AK building tools come up regularly due to people getting out over the increase in kit costs. I got mine very reasonable from there. If you live in a big city, look for a press on craigslist. I got mine used in good shape with casters and a base for $70 just a few miles away from me. Whatever you do, buy headspace guages. No other method of determining headspace is adequate. You need a go and a nogo. Anyone that tells you otherwise is feeding you incorrect opinions to make themselves feel better. I did my first build using the empty case and tape method. When I decided I liked AK building and tooled up with good equipment, I found out it was wildly out of spec. Headspace guages aren't expensive and they're very easy to resell. Thanks for the tips. I was thinking about the case and tape method for headspacing... It doesn't work? Btw, will any of those 3 barrels i linked in the OP work with this kit? And this is another stupid question.. I've never used headspace gauges before. For pressing a new barrel on, can I get by with just the "no go" gauge? I would think a cartridge would suffice for a "go" gauge. I'd not want to headspace using a case because not all cases and ammo are exactly the same. The difference between go and nogo is .010" with my gauges. I don't think you could hit that by guessing with a spent casing. Try to make your builds the absolute best you can, not just good enough. You'll be much more proud of the final product. Couldn't you use say, 5-10 cartridges as a "go" gauge? I mean a handful of them will average out and give you a good idea. I'd rather not spend $30 for an item I will only use once if I don't have to. Are you using 5-10 from the same lot of Yugo? What about when that runs out? Will it work with Golden Tiger, Silver Bear, Brown Bear, Horandy, Remington, Wolf, etc.??? Would it work? Maybe. You could also end up with a gun that's out of spec. Again, .010" is the difference between my go and nogo gauges. If you're that tight on money, hold out for one on the EE. Or, buy one new for $30, and sell it when you're done for $15. I'm not the only one that shoots my guns. I want them to be safe and reliable for anyone that ends up with them anywhere down the road. My kids (2 and 4 months) will likely end up with them someday. I try to make my guns the best I can, not good enough to get by. My first AK was a GP1975 that jammed up all the time. Something was out of whack. I still don't know what. I sold it before I got into building. My next AK was a Maadi I cobbled together with tools I had laying around. I did the spent casing and tape method for headspacing. It was a jam-o-matic too. After that, I tooled up with AK-Builder stuff from the EE and started building AKs the right way, including the headspacing. I rebuild the Maadi and it now runs 100% like the rest of my AKs. Since buying the right tools and doing it the right way, I've yet to have a FTF, FTE, or any other malfunction out of the dozen or so I've built. I now have go and nogo gauges in 7.62x39, 5.45x39, and 5.56. YMMV, I'm not an expert, etc... |
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Posted: 3/8/2012 9:22:35 PM
[Last Edit: 3/8/2012 9:24:46 PM by CheeseHeadNinja]
Anyone have experience with AK-builder's barrels? Who makes them? They good quality?
http://ak-builder.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=29781 Btw, I decided to be smart and get go and no go gauges. ![]() |
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Posted: 3/8/2012 11:28:35 PM
Originally Posted By CheeseHeadNinja:
Anyone have experience with AK-builder's barrels? Who makes them? They good quality? http://ak-builder.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=29781 Btw, I decided to be smart and get go and no go gauges. ![]() Good call on the gauges. I've had good luck with my AK-Builder barrels, most recently my M92 barrel. |
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Posted: 3/10/2012 7:46:32 PM
[Last Edit: 3/10/2012 7:49:48 PM by CheeseHeadNinja]
Well my kit came today, but it doesn't have the front or rear trunnion... wtf?
Edit: Looking at it, it appears they sent me a Bulgarian milled underfolder kit instead of the Polish underfolder (stamped). That would explain the missing trunnions, right? |
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Posted: 3/10/2012 7:50:30 PM
Originally Posted By CheeseHeadNinja:
Well my kit came today, but it doesn't have the front or rear trunnion... wtf? Ouch. |
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Posted: 3/11/2012 12:03:07 AM
Personally I won't shoot anything for the first time with out checking it witha headspace gauge..It's noth worth the money you save.
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Posted: 3/11/2012 9:33:10 AM
I'd not want to headspace using a case because not all cases and ammo are exactly the same.
If you accept that premise, then ideally you should head-space your rifle every time you change brand of ammo. Right? I don't think so. If there was so much difference between brands of ammo, then I think you would hear of a lot more "incidents". I agree a "go gauge" is a nice tool to have, but I don't feel it is absolutely necessary. Just my opinion. Each to their own. |
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Posted: 3/15/2012 11:24:03 AM
Originally Posted By boostedAK:
I'd not want to headspace using a case because not all cases and ammo are exactly the same.
If you accept that premise, then ideally you should head-space your rifle every time you change brand of ammo. Right? I don't think so. If there was so much difference between brands of ammo, then I think you would hear of a lot more "incidents". I agree a "go gauge" is a nice tool to have, but I don't feel it is absolutely necessary. Just my opinion. Each to their own. No. Tolerances can build up. If you headspaced it short on a short case, you could run into problems with longer cases. If the gun is built in-spec, it should work with any in-spec ammo. Yes ammo will still vary even if your gun is built correctly. However, the gun should run just with it if the gun and ammo are within tolerances. |
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Posted: 3/15/2012 12:22:58 PM
No not when I change ammo just on the first shoot of the build... I don't check headspace after every brand change...I do see some brands do fit tighter than others but the the problem its not it being to tight its being too loose and thus being dangerous to shoot... I guess if you look at the post then you can fight about it but its not unsafe if the bolt won't lock down on the bullet.....
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Posted: 3/18/2012 12:22:31 AM
Originally Posted By jdoming728:
Personally I won't shoot anything for the first time with out checking it witha headspace gauge..It's noth worth the money you save. And make sure you don't repeat my mistake by letting the bolt carrier slam home under spring pressure on the gauges. My Gauges were completely out of whack by the time I figured out that I was using them incorrectly. |
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