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Posted: 5/21/2017 9:11:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Perhaps that's why the Army called for cleaning, 3 days in a row, after firing.
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Posted: 5/21/2017 9:16:01 PM EDT
[#2]
The ACE I used to work for part time a few years back had some really, really bright ones with a flexible light on them picked up a half dozen of them.........I have no idea what the lumens are on them.
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Posted: 5/21/2017 11:04:49 PM EDT
[#3]
Or stop worrying about it so much. It's a damn rifle.
(I used to work in the armory) you have no possible need to get a rifle that clean. |
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Posted: 5/22/2017 1:32:39 AM EDT
[#4]
Shoot an AK. Call it a day.
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Posted: 5/22/2017 1:40:23 AM EDT
[#5]
If you want it that clean, you have to buy a solvent tank. It's stupid and it actually shortens the life of most parts, but you can get it clean all the way down to the metal.
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Posted: 5/22/2017 1:42:55 AM EDT
[#6]
I know. I don't care.
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Posted: 5/22/2017 2:39:26 AM EDT
[#7]
I don't care if it's not as clean as an operating room, I care that it's lubricated and working. It that lube suspends a few flecks of carbon then I could Not care less.
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Posted: 5/22/2017 4:15:15 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Perhaps that's why the Army called for cleaning, 3 days in a row, after firing. |
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Posted: 5/22/2017 7:13:27 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or stop worrying about it so much. It's a damn rifle. (I used to work in the armory) you have no possible need to get a rifle that clean. |
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Posted: 5/22/2017 7:49:37 PM EDT
[#10]
And when I say I worked in the armory, I mean I was that douchebag that rejected your dirty weapon. I know "clean" very well as it applies to weapons and OP is just being autistic about it.
I use a couple q tips and a rag. My guns work just fine. I also wonder what OP is doing to cause green tip paint to get inside the bcg. That sounds more like lack of maintenance/abuse. |
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Posted: 5/22/2017 11:55:50 PM EDT
[#11]
'Autistic'/'Obsessive'
No and no. Just like a clean gun but for some reason had let it slip the last few times. Didn't matter, it shot great and I finished zeroing it at 100. But I definitely was surprised at all the fuzziness I saw when I shone the new light in there after my usual cleaning. And the paint specks were in the upper, not the BCG, which did surprise me after blasting it out with brake cleaner. But seriously, don't buy a used gun until you look at it with a bright LED light - it is amazing what it shows. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 6:33:46 AM EDT
[#12]
Oh yeah, paint in the upper and locking lugs is normal, as well as brass flakes.
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Posted: 5/23/2017 6:37:05 AM EDT
[#13]
Mine's clean enough.
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Posted: 5/23/2017 9:24:45 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shoot an AK. Call it a day. 
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Posted: 5/23/2017 10:54:08 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh yeah, paint in the upper and locking lugs is normal, as well as brass flakes. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 11:17:11 AM EDT
[#16]
Mine are. I use ammonia based copper dissolves as well as lead removers. No bore snake shit.
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Posted: 5/24/2017 3:53:22 PM EDT
[#17]
Doesn't have to be white glove inspection clean. CLP, bore snake, and a rag. Unless you are MIL and HAVE to have it sparkling clean, anything more is excessive. Its a rifle, not a show car |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 10:37:02 PM EDT
[#18]
If you're seeing the inside of the bolt carrier dirty, maybe it has to do with your cleaning utilities as oppose to shining lights into things? I looked into my bolt carrier group and it is spotlessly clean even with a flashlight. This rifle was shot a couple of weeks ago with 230 rounds going through it.
What I usually do is take a nylon brush (the absolute best brush is from a Polish ak47 cleaning kit, actually) and wrap a patch around it and I simply "rotate it" in the bolt carrier in where the bolt goes and in the back where the firing pin goes. I rotate, and then use a pick to remove built up carbon. I keep rotating and picking until it is cleaned. Takes maybe 5 minutes or so and the patch at first is dark black and finally the patch comes out clean. |
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Posted: 5/24/2017 10:47:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Spray mine out with brake cleaner 2000-300 rounds whether it needs it or not. My rifles always work.
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Posted: 5/26/2017 10:28:39 AM EDT
[#20]
I wipe the parts/upper off/out, brush the chamber, snake the bore, and enjoy life. if I go slow and have a beer, and get distracted, it may take 30 minutes for the rifle, including cleaning the suppressor mount up nicely (that is one area that "truly matters" that you clean it, IMO)
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Posted: 5/28/2017 1:04:02 PM EDT
[#21]
Its clean enough
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Posted: 5/28/2017 1:32:14 PM EDT
[#22]
I go thousands of rounds over dozens of range sessions before cleaning, and besides .22LR never have any problems.
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Posted: 5/29/2017 7:01:19 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Perhaps that's why the Army called for cleaning, 3 days in a row, after firing. It was to ensure that all of the corrosive primer material was flushed away. You needed to removed the copper fouling that kept the salts from being washed away and against the bore (that's why the ammonia, not the mythical "neutralizing" of the corrosive salts) and the three days was enough to strip it out along with all of the powder fouling. |
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Posted: 5/30/2017 9:27:18 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Army hasn't actually called for that, in any corrected manual, for decades. It was to ensure that all of the corrosive primer material was flushed away. You needed to removed the copper fouling that kept the salts from being washed away and against the bore (that's why the ammonia, not the mythical "neutralizing" of the corrosive salts) and the three days was enough to strip it out along with all of the powder fouling. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Perhaps that's why the Army called for cleaning, 3 days in a row, after firing. It was to ensure that all of the corrosive primer material was flushed away. You needed to removed the copper fouling that kept the salts from being washed away and against the bore (that's why the ammonia, not the mythical "neutralizing" of the corrosive salts) and the three days was enough to strip it out along with all of the powder fouling. |
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Posted: 5/30/2017 10:43:49 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
'Autistic'/'Obsessive' No and no. Just like a clean gun but for some reason had let it slip the last few times. Didn't matter, it shot great and I finished zeroing it at 100. But I definitely was surprised at all the fuzziness I saw when I shone the new light in there after my usual cleaning. And the paint specks were in the upper, not the BCG, which did surprise me after blasting it out with brake cleaner. But seriously, don't buy a used gun until you look at it with a bright LED light - it is amazing what it shows. |
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Posted: 5/31/2017 10:13:31 PM EDT
[#26]
It's clean enough for shooting. Fortunately, I don't eat or drink out of it.
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Posted: 5/31/2017 10:27:34 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't care how dirty a gun looks. I only care if it functions reliably. Stop worrying about shit that doesn't matter and it'll no longer be a problem. |
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Posted: 6/11/2017 5:00:05 PM EDT
[#28]
Common sense to clean after shooting so its protected and ready for the next use. This is what the military has always done and there is no valid argument against it, only senseless prattle.
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Posted: 6/11/2017 6:56:02 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Common sense to clean after shooting so its protected and ready for the next use. This is what the military has always done and there is no valid argument against it, only senseless prattle. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 7:56:06 AM EDT
[#30]
I enjoy cleaning my guns and inspecting as much as I enjoy shooting them. Sure they will still work if you oil them up.
You car drives fine if it is dirty too. That doesn't prevent me from washing and vacuuming it. If someone runs their gun dirty or likes it spotless that is a choice. I don't care either way. For me clean is the way to go. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 9:10:06 AM EDT
[#31]
I run mine dirty, just keep adding lub. As s space shuttle door gunner a dirty gun if far less likely to have parts vacuum weld together due to dirt particles keeping the parts for touching directly enough to weld. The dirt particle also increase wetted surface area between part for lubricants make them flash off slower in the vacuum of space.
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Posted: 6/12/2017 11:13:05 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I enjoy cleaning my guns and inspecting as much as I enjoy shooting them. Sure they will still work if you oil them up. You car drives fine if it is dirty too. That doesn't prevent me from washing and vacuuming it. If someone runs their gun dirty or likes it spotless that is a choice. I don't care either way. For me clean is the way to go. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 3:52:24 PM EDT
[#33]
"Cleaning" my range rifles consists of running one wet patch through the bore, and wiping a little Mobil 1 or Royal Purple on the BCG. If I sweat all over the ferrous metal parts I usually wipe them off with a little LSA.
I do this every 1000rds whether the gun needs it or not. ETA: It really does not need it at 1000rds. The furthest I've gone is several cases through a Scar-16. Guess what...it was dirty and ran like a wet cat. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 3:54:20 PM EDT
[#34]
I don't get the obsession with "fit and finish" and now "cleanliness". I like to shoot my guns. Performance is all I care about. I'm WWAAAAYYYY past the sit and stare at them phase. I think that passed in college (circa 1992). Shoot the dang thing!
I scratched the crap out of my new LMT Tan SOPMOD over the weekend. A concrete barrier at my range gouged it terribly. A little sandpaper and the gouge isn't rough on my face now. Who cares? The rifle still does what I need it to do: pull trigger, go bang, repeat. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 5:12:50 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't get the obsession with "fit and finish" and now "cleanliness". I like to shoot my guns. Performance is all I care about. I'm WWAAAAYYYY past the sit and stare at them phase. I think that passed in college (circa 1992). Shoot the dang thing! I scratched the crap out of my new LMT Tan SOPMOD over the weekend. A concrete barrier at my range gouged it terribly. A little sandpaper and the gouge isn't rough on my face now. Who cares? The rifle still does what I need it to do: pull trigger, go bang, repeat. I dream of an America in which gun owners as a whole worry more about their proficiency wish than the cleanliness of their weapons, but it ain't happening. At least with the past two wars, we have maybe two generations of veterans amongst, many of which get it on the weapon being a tool that you need to learn how to use. For god's sake, there was a guy in GD telling me in all seriousness that he applies lube to his ARs as lightly as possible due to the "danger" of excess lube contaminating primers! You can't make this shit up. You know that guy will never go do a high round count class or compete with his weapon. You know he'll never realize how much better of a shooter he would be just dry firing for 5 minutes a day, every day. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 5:41:15 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
People are caught up in the religious aspects of it. They think if they worship the weapon and sacrifice time, expose themselves to chemicals, etc, that the weapon will work well for them; they treat it is as a quasi god, not as a tool. Since they usually don't shoot their weapons much, the weapon works well enough for them, but you hardly ever see a guy with a spotless weapon shooting as well as the guy with a dirty, banged up weapon, nor will you see the guys with clean weapons possessing weapons related callouses and knowing exactly what their zeroes are at most ranges. The military (at least the infantry) was in the middle of realizing that the idiotic "spotless except for a light coat CLP" standard along with stupid shit like like scraping precision machined surfaces in order to pass some silly inspection, when I got out of the Corps in 2004, but you'll always have the guy spouting off "well, my Drill Instructor/Drill Sergeant said this and I CANNOT think for myself so DERP DERP." I dream of an America in which gun owners as a whole worry more about their proficiency wish than the cleanliness of their weapons, but it ain't happening. At least with the past two wars, we have maybe two generations of veterans amongst, many of which get it on the weapon being a tool that you need to learn how to use. For god's sake, there was a guy in GD telling me in all seriousness that he applies lube to his ARs as lightly as possible due to the "danger" of excess lube contaminating primers! You can't make this shit up. You know that guy will never go do a high round count class or compete with his weapon. You know he'll never realize how much better of a shooter he would be just dry firing for 5 minutes a day, every day. I responded: "You must be a low volume shooter if its 10 years old, and still giving good groups? " He responded: "Yeah, I only have maybe 600 rounds through it. I only take it whenever I can blast it. Usually someone's property or BLM land in New Mexico." He ran a whopping 600 rounds through his gun in ELEVEN YEARS and is using this as a basis for recommendations. I fired 1,400rds over the weekend, and feel like I'm a second stringer. I've tried the tolerance and patience route, but I'm sick of the fit and finish whining (i.e. some guy is complaining about his BCM t-marks in the BCM forum...  ). Who gives a rats ass? ALL I CARE ABOUT IS PERFORMANCE. I want to perform to the highest possible standard and want my gear to do the same.
I've continuously owned ARs for the past 33 years. In that time I've watched the birth of the "barbie rifle" and the influx of "ooh shiny" gun buyers / owners. The only people I speak to at the range are the guys who have gear that looks ilke its been beat on. I can reasonably expect to gleen something of value from them...the rest of the "OMG how do I get brass marks off by brass deflector" crowd should take up another hobby. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 11:02:20 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Common sense to clean after shooting so its protected and ready for the next use. This is what the military has always done and there is no valid argument against it, only senseless prattle. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 11:42:43 PM EDT
[#38]
I just scrolled pat this thread and a sense of anger and disgruntlement set in. You have successfully given me armory cleaning days pats flashbacks from the 2/6 armory lol!
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Posted: 6/13/2017 1:54:28 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just scrolled pat this thread and a sense of anger and disgruntlement set in. You have successfully given me armory cleaning days pats flashbacks from the 2/6 armory lol! 
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Posted: 6/14/2017 8:47:11 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
People are caught up in the religious aspects of it. They think if they worship the weapon and sacrifice time, expose themselves to chemicals, etc, that the weapon will work well for them; they treat it is as a quasi god, not as a tool. Since they usually don't shoot their weapons much, the weapon works well enough for them, but you hardly ever see a guy with a spotless weapon shooting as well as the guy with a dirty, banged up weapon, nor will you see the guys with clean weapons possessing weapons related callouses and knowing exactly what their zeroes are at most ranges. The military (at least the infantry) was in the middle of realizing that the idiotic "spotless except for a light coat CLP" standard along with stupid shit like like scraping precision machined surfaces in order to pass some silly inspection, when I got out of the Corps in 2004, but you'll always have the guy spouting off "well, my Drill Instructor/Drill Sergeant said this and I CANNOT think for myself so DERP DERP." I dream of an America in which gun owners as a whole worry more about their proficiency wish than the cleanliness of their weapons, but it ain't happening. At least with the past two wars, we have maybe two generations of veterans amongst, many of which get it on the weapon being a tool that you need to learn how to use. For god's sake, there was a guy in GD telling me in all seriousness that he applies lube to his ARs as lightly as possible due to the "danger" of excess lube contaminating primers! You can't make this shit up. You know that guy will never go do a high round count class or compete with his weapon. You know he'll never realize how much better of a shooter he would be just dry firing for 5 minutes a day, every day. I think the gun hobby has many different levels and facets to it. To argue about the virtues of cleaning vs. not cleaning etc. is futile. For me I am not an operator nor do I ever claim to be. I have zero interest in competition shooting, hunting or bench rest precision. Some guys shoot to become extremely proficient at fast follow up shots, off hand shooting and all the other skills needed to win a firefight against an enemy. For me personally the gun hobby is a social event. Some guys like to sit around drinking, some like to watch sports, some hunt or fish. I prefer to go to the range with a friend and toss some lead downrange. Up until last January range trips were with my son and his best friend. My son has since enlisted in the Navy and my shooting buddy is not around anymore. I get more enjoyment out of watching others shoot. Helping them get their equipment dialed in, for me, is as much or even more enjoyable than shooting. I have taken several of my friends who were not "gun guys" but not anti-gun either and converted them into 2A advocates. I just enjoy the mechanical aspect of the hobby. One of my good friends and range buddy is into competitions and drilling constantly. He practices fast drawing and running and gunning, etc. When he has had trouble with his guns he has asked me to fix them. We just squared away an old Bushmaster Ar15 that would not cycle reliably for one of his friends. That is what I enjoy more than actually shooting. One size does not fit all. BTW. Guys that served.....THANKS!!!!! 
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Posted: 6/17/2017 2:11:23 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL. I do change my vehicle's oil every night, don't you? I also wash it every morning. In all seriousness I don't detail clean my guns every range trip. Sometimes I just give a quick wipe down or run a boresnake through the barrel once or twice before putting away. I think the gun hobby has many different levels and facets to it. To argue about the virtues of cleaning vs. not cleaning etc. is futile. For me I am not an operator nor do I ever claim to be. I have zero interest in competition shooting, hunting or bench rest precision. Some guys shoot to become extremely proficient at fast follow up shots, off hand shooting and all the other skills needed to win a firefight against an enemy. For me personally the gun hobby is a social event. Some guys like to sit around drinking, some like to watch sports, some hunt or fish. I prefer to go to the range with a friend and toss some lead downrange. Up until last January range trips were with my son and his best friend. My son has since enlisted in the Navy and my shooting buddy is not around anymore. I get more enjoyment out of watching others shoot. Helping them get their equipment dialed in, for me, is as much or even more enjoyable than shooting. I have taken several of my friends who were not "gun guys" but not anti-gun either and converted them into 2A advocates. I just enjoy the mechanical aspect of the hobby. One of my good friends and range buddy is into competitions and drilling constantly. He practices fast drawing and running and gunning, etc. When he has had trouble with his guns he has asked me to fix them. We just squared away an old Bushmaster Ar15 that would not cycle reliably for one of his friends. That is what I enjoy more than actually shooting. One size does not fit all. BTW. Guys that served.....THANKS!!!!! You're absolutely right - the way guys approach/appreciate guns is about as varied as the type of women we like. No one size fits all. When guys like myself, and Jeff (JEFF you're welcome to tell me to STFU) talk in threads like this it is because we can infer a few probabilities like: The person is new to the AR15 and/or guns in general; The person has military experience that may conflict with the way high volume civilian shooters approach the sport / hobby; The person has incorrect information; The person is regurgitating meme info that should be stopped; The person could benefit from more experienced and seasoned high volume shooters that use the AR15 extensively and therefore can separate internet conjecture from actual facts. The way I, and others, approach these threads and topics may seem mean spirited but it is not. We wouldn't spend our time trying to educate if we didn't care. Speaking for myself, after saying the same thing for the 10,000th time...the hand holding friendliness is gone...only the energy to state the facts remains. This is especially true on boards that have a lot of so-called "fanboyism". There are other boards that focus on true technical / real results and don't tolerate people who only come to the internet to feel better about what they bought. Regarding the OP. If he wants to sonic clean his gun every day that's his business. However, it isn't necessary and could actually accelerate wear (crown damage from metal rod, etc). Guys like me would rather see people SHOOT their ARs than talk about which shade of pink Brand X matches Brand Z. We view the rifle as an instrument which is meant to be played not admired. Clearly others view it was a lego toy set, or work of art or whatever. That's their prerogative. As long as there are people complaining online about the color of their upper and lower not matching or that they can't get their rifle to pass a white glove test after firing their monthly 20 rounds ... there will be people pointing out what I described above. |
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Posted: 6/17/2017 5:53:06 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I enjoy cleaning my guns and inspecting as much as I enjoy shooting them. Sure they will still work if you oil them up. You car drives fine if it is dirty too. That doesn't prevent me from washing and vacuuming it. If someone runs their gun dirty or likes it spotless that is a choice. I don't care either way. For me clean is the way to go. |
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Posted: 6/17/2017 9:19:25 PM EDT
[#43]
In the Marines we cleaned our weapons constantly and for good reason as far as I'm concerned. Fast forward almost years and I still clean all of my firearms to about the same standard. Having said that all of my weapons go band and in the very rare occasion they don't it isn't because of lack of PMCS. I hope this helps OP.
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Posted: 6/17/2017 9:26:22 PM EDT
[#44]
The apex of .mil cleaning retardery was chucking a chamber brush on a section of cleaning rod, sticking it in a drill and 'drilling the chamber'
Like that thin layer of carbon was concrete and would not immediately yield to the slightest manual effort from a cleaning brush. I will once in a blue moon, clean a rifle to the nth degree, mainly if I am putting it up for long term storage. Otherwise, it gets a ten to twenty minute cleaning and done. I lightly oil a raw steel barrel. Plated or treated barrels get a single pass or nothing depending on their condition. |
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Posted: 6/17/2017 9:27:43 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In the Marines we cleaned our weapons constantly and for good reason as far as I'm concerned. Fast forward almost years and I still clean all of my firearms to about the same standard. Having said that all of my weapons go band and in the very rare occasion they don't it isn't because of lack of PMCS. I hope this helps OP. |
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Posted: 6/17/2017 10:07:16 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You cleaned your weapons constantly because you had nothing better to fill that training time slot and it cost the Corps little to fill that time slot other than a few cleaning supplies.  , just saying every unit is different and also every fire team leader leader has his own priorities which mesh with the commanders intent
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Posted: 6/17/2017 10:08:29 PM EDT
[#47]
It is what it is but I will say you are correct with over cleaning methods.
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Posted: 6/19/2017 10:14:32 AM EDT
[#48]
I clean mine every time I shoot to check wear on my parts.
That said I'm not ocd and don't take metal tools to my parts, even then my bolt looks pretty clean.  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 10:19:58 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know. I don't care. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 10:25:23 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then change your oil after every time you drive it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You car drives fine if it is dirty too. That doesn't prevent me from washing and vacuuming it. If someone runs their gun dirty or likes it spotless that is a choice. I don't care either way. For me clean is the way to go. |
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