I like to spray clp in my barrel after shooting then run a bore snake through it a couple of times the next day. I've got all the right gear for real cleanings and do that every few hundred rounds. My barrel maker frowned on the use of the bore snake pretty heavily. The barrel is stainless steel. What are your all's thoughts on the bore snake?

I use one in my Krieger.  But I keep it out of the dirt and wash it here and there.  I dont understand the disdain for them in precision barrels unless the fear is wear from accumulated debris or dropping them in the sand.

I have used one in a stainless barrel for quite a while. I like using it over something else.
how could it be bad?

You do not wear your barrel out as fast so you are costing the barrel maker money.

IMO, most aversion to bore snakes is actually explained by, "But I grew up cleaning weapons with a rod and brush..."

If you don't clean them aren't you just running the same crap through your barrel over and over? I have a few but I clean them after a few passes. Also CLP in the bore is known to take a few extra fouling shots before settling down.

I only use a Boresnake.

This I get.  I run them breech to muzzle and pull them out straight.  Though I think that, again, as long as you keep them clean, the abrasiveness of the cloth pales in comparison to exiting gas.

I hear ya. I don't like having the brush pulling across the chamber opening either.

A less aggressive option but along the same concept

https://www.gunmouse.com

Most of the BS on BS's, lol!!!!!  is nothing more than Bull. If you have a clean snake, and you should always keep your snake clean, tell me how anything on it is going to have any impact whatsoever on a steel barrel. I mean let's use some common sense here!!!!!!  The other thing I laugh about is the words "precision barrel" on a AR15 semi auto rifle. I have shot precision rifles, AKA  BOLT ACTION, and I have some shot some accurate AR's, but an AR is never going to be what I would call a "precision barrel". Snake away, for an even better option check out the Otis "rip Cord", I like them because you can attach a brush or patch puller to it. But if you think a new BS is a tough pull, wait until you try the "RIP CORD"!!!!!!  

The best AR barrel will not beat the best bolt-action barrel. However, you can still call it a "precision" barrel with an AR. I have precision stainless barrels in both platforms and always pull a dry boresnake through my barrel, one time, after every range trip to pull out carbon. No oil needed until I clean for real every 300-400 rnds.

So you're contending the Krieger barrel blank I installed on a Rem 700 is somehow higher quality than a Krieger barrel blank meant for an AR?

I reckon I should have said the system or action is more precise with a bolt-action. And i'm certainly not saying that the AR platform can't be precise. It's just not as precise as a quality bolt-action. I own a couple AR barrels that wll shoot .5MOA. I would say that's pretty precise. Next time I'll choose my words more carefully.

nah, you are not doing anything to the barrel with a snake regardless of angle.  The barrel is far harder than the brass on the snake.  I do agree that snakes should be kept clean.  Most of what we do with our ARs is placebo effect and baseball like hysterics......I know about those being a former ball player

agree....I do think you can get an AR close, very very close, to what bolts will do however.

I use bore snake all the time and no problem what so ever.

If I could get a AR-15 trigger like my Jewell HVRTS, it might help.

Can someone explain to me how a bore snake + filth from cleaning (carbon, copper, lead) can form a substance capable of scratching the crown of a steel barrel? Genuine question. Not rhetorical.

I am honestly wondering the same.

I agree with some of your points.  Hold off until accuracy is effected.  And your illustration is very effective, water through a canyon etc.  I totally agree.  And keeping a snake clean important.  But I always come back to this, is that snake any more abrasive than all the bullets you are shooting down that barrel.  And while the direction of pull and keeping it straight is important, I just can't help but think if that barrel can tolerate a screaming projectile followed by heated gases, it can surely take a lubricated brass brush embedded in a rope.  

 

I am with you.  I try to protect the crown at all cost.  I have seen to many barrels screwed up from damaged crowns.  No need to tempt fate.

There are words of wisdom with both opinions.

My .02 cents...

While I don't consider my barrel to be a precision match grade, it is a fairly decent 18" SS bull.  When performing a complete cleaning following a range trip I too use a bore guide and a Tipton carbon fiber one piece cleaning rod.

On the other hand...if I know it will be some time before I can do a proper cleaning after I finish shooting, I will carefully use a Otis Ripcord.  As for water and the Grand Canyon analogy I am fully aware of the power of erosion.  But, lets also not forget the amount of time we are talking about.  Hundreds of millions of years.

A few passes using a clean bore snake being careful not to drag it over the crown should be fine for most barrels.  Most barrels.

I thoroughly wash my ripcord after use to make sure that it has no foreign matter embedded in it for the next use.

I'm not really buying the assumption that contaminants turn the boresnake into an "abrasive rope." I was looking at my shoelace today. It's much denser and more abrasive than a boresnake. However, my leather shoe has worn it thin to the point of needing replacing. I know that's an n=1 example. But I just don't accept at face value, "contaminants turn it into an abrasive rope that can cut metal" just as you shouldn't accept at face value that boresnakes are OK because of my shoelace example.

Maybe sand or grit but I don't think that carbon fouling being on the snake would make it abrasive!!

I need advice if you guys can help me out on these 4 questions (I've provided info below!!! Hope you guys can help me learn, I'm a noob to alot of this

1. How do you guys go about cleaning your boresnakes without it retaining any water or rusting the Bronze bristles?? (and Otis Ripcords is a rubber cord with nylon fibers, which I have a couple of each) I normally use my "Otis Ripcord" to remove traces of CLP from my bore before shooting, being it fits so tightly and scrubs the bore waaaay harder than a Snake.

 I never clean my snakes though, I just run em across a cloth to ring out the CLP being they never leave any dirty stains on the cloth..

Although, I hardly ever shoot more than 80-120 rounds ( "PMC 223 55gr" & "PMC X-TAC 556 62gr") per shooting session. Not even at the 1K mark yet. "Melonite Barrel" (M&P15) and about to sight in my new Aimpoint. I have a Chrome Lined Mil Spec bbl also but Ive yet to put any rounds through that AR, just used a boresnake a few times to coat the bore for storage and Otis Ripcord to soak up the additional CLP.

I have indeed pulled the Boresnakes at an angle which I will stop doing, mainly when my ARs are laying down after a session being and I would tilt it for it end to fall through ad pull from the front of a horizontal rifle but at the end Id pull it straight upward making it come out and then to the side of the muzzle which was upward. Never thought about the crown being an issue.

2. Just got a Bore Guide, a Dewey Rod, and some KG-12 copper remover. With the nylon brush, can I scrub back and forth inside the bore?? (and bring the brush back in once it passes the crown???)

Or do I need to unscrew it after each pass from "breech to muzzle" and start over going forward?? I've never cleaned copper fouling before, nor used a Bore guide before so wondering about this and want to do it the right proper way. I hear KG-12 isn't harmful to anything if traces are left behind so thats why I chose it. I'm a CLP and Boresnake kind of guy..

3. I plan to use a Boresnake in the very end to remove the copper solvent when I'm done and then use another that has CLP on the tail of it to coat the bore, not sure if good idea or not, Ima use an old one, and then put a coating of CLP in the bore (Sometimes too much with runs back down). I've heard of "Hydraulicing", which I hope CLP will not cause if left in the bore being Ive shot rifles that had CLP in the bore from storage (Not coated heavy, being most had ran down or evaporated being the AR's stand upward in my SAFE.)

They say "Hydraulicing" will deform the barrel if oil or fluid makes the projectile practically "hydroplane" when shot, causing the bbl to bulge/be ruined. Not sure to what extent that you're safe from this happening or if it only happens if thick grease is in the bbl or is obstructed by water or something?.?.?. No clue.

4.  ALSO, this is important, what did the member mean by CLP requiring "Additional Fouling Shots"? Does that mean I should fire about 5-10rds (max) before attempting to get accurate shots?? (Does it let the oil burn out pretty much, even if its trace amounts?) Wasn't clear on that.

Need some major advice, I'll be extremely grateful if you guys can help. I was gonna start a thread but I feel this may be the proper thread!!

You obviously have not been to the Larue website and seen the groups their rifles are capable of. A Larue will run with a bolt gun all day long.

plenty of rifles have 'near bolt' accuracy but no AR will match, on a consistent basis, a bolt gun with respects to precision.  

now on point, a bore snake is not going to damage your barrel because unlike the Colorado River (used as an example earlier), you are simply not using it enough and in the same angle to affect the accuracy.  Also, nothing on the snake even comes close to being hard enough to damage the inside of a barrel.  Could there be very fine and microscopic imperfections from the using the bore snake?  I imagine it's possible but nothing that snake is doing will harm the accuracy of the barrel.  Worry more about your breathing, stance, trigger pull, environmental factors.

The placebo effect and group think i strong here

I Know I typed a short novel above but can anyone give me any advice on my few questions involving my barrel???

Little bit of a read, but good info would be GREEEEEEEEEEAT!!!!

1.I wash it in the sink with hot water and dish soap which works great.  Remember that dish soap has additives to remove grease etc, works great on a snake.   I let it hang dry and have yet to have any issues.  As for round count and cleaning, I would only run a patch down my barrel with how little you shoot (if that) and think you are over cleaning.  I have a cloth tip for the AR barrel and I put a little hoppes on it and run it down the barrel with a rod and then I oil another one and run that down.   Perfec;t for storage

2.yes you can brush it but I'd get one designed for the job and use that...cheap, they are like 5

3 I wouldn't worry as it's been discussed

4.  only do this with lead reloads in handgusn

Thanks for taking the time to help me, I got a DEWEY- Nylon "No Harm" brush (the steel tip is rounded, rather than sharply cut off) I have a 30" Dewey rod also. When you mentioned the $5 proper brush, are you referring to the "Tornado Brush" with the spiral of brush material that circles the brush etc etc that are made for copper cleaning? (Ive heard pieces of them fall of in the bore, that was just some customer complaints though.)

So its safe to scrub back and forth? Even near the crown (Being it has alot of copper buildup but Id assume its best not letting it exit the muzzle and pulling back and forth at the edge of the crown while inside, being its Nylon)? I hear the "Throat" has a lot of Copper Fouling but not sure the the Bore Guide will bond with the throat to where when I srcub in it if I will have to scrub halfway in the bore and halfway in the opening of the bore guide.

Or are Long/Slow "BACK & FORTH" strokes the best, exiting the muzzle and pulling back, rather than shifting directions and scrubbing inside the bore???. Then I assume I should let it sit for 10 mins or so afterwards, apply more to the brush and do it again. Apparently KG12 Copper Remover isn't harmful like "Sweets" which is great but will eat at your bore if left behind I hear.

I assume the CLP will nuetralize the KG-12, being I plan to run a NEW boresnake down with CLP on the tail in one pass, so hopefully it removes all of the KG-12....Maybe I'll patch it first to be safe... Although my bore guide will probably be wet inside with KG-12 so may go in from the muzzle end. I fold 2 little hoppes patches into triangles and put them both into a slotted tip an run through..I never use a jag but may start if its better. I just like the tightness of the two 2x2 inch patches in a slotted tip.

So the fouling issue is only in pistols you say??

I used to use them until I met this guy at the range who educated me about them.  He's a BR shooter with a Custom 6 PPC that probably costs more than my ride.

Anyway he convinced me to use Tipton Carbon Fiber Rods with a bore guide, "nylon" brushes and Bore Tech Eliminator.  I adopted this method and then final swab with a patch and a light coating of Clenzoil  before storage.  I've been using Clenzoil for over 30 years and never had a problem.

This is what I do but necessarily make it right for everyone.  

This...^.  Tipton and Delrin bore guide.

I say outside of Boresnakes, Dewey Roads with "No Harm" brushes are the best I've came across. The tip of the steel or brass on the "No Harm" brushes is a rounded loop, rather than an end that has been cut off (like most) with sharp edges that can scratch your bore...

 "Optics Planet" is the best place to get them and the accessories.

The Dewey Road has a thick nylon coating (feels like stiff rubber, but slick) and double ball bearings in the handle...

The Tipton road may be good but the Dewey Rods are awesome also.

Not to mention, most flash hiders/brakes are going to protect the crown...

For precision AR barrels I use a rod guide and Dewey Rod.   However if you talk to the guys at Kidd - who make extremely accurate 10/22 barrels - they just tell everybody to  use Bore Snakes because of all the people that don't know how to clean a barrel properly.

I use them on lots of other guns like shotguns and revolvers where you can't clean from the breach anyway.  I think they're fine, but I still can't bear to use them on a really accurate AR barrel.

You have clearly never shot a really good AR barrel.  Barrels like Krieger make a good AR easily the equal of a bolt gun.

One could point out the Otis is a coated steal cable, but I am not going to do it. I use Both, I really like my bore snakes for shotguns, military rifles,  ARs especially with flash suppressors and muzzle devices. I use the Otis on my 700 Precision Rifles. I would not hesitate to use the snake if I had to but hey I paid $50+ for the Otis they better be good for something.
 

I have a sub MOA AR barrel.  I consider it a precision barrel.  But the above statement is drastically exaggerated.   Here is an example of the world record for benchrest in the light varmint rifle class.  .1322" at one hundred yards.  This is not just a single group, but is the composite for the entire match - five separate 5 shot groups - 25 rounds.  There is a lot more to accuracy at that level than the barrel alone.  Given the way that AR's have a two piece upper and lower receiver and the geometry of how our actions fit together and fire control groups work, we will never have the rigidity or chamber and action precision to shoot groups that small.   While precision AR barrels on well bulit AR's can shoot amazing groups, the best AR will never compete at the same accuracy level of the best bolt guns.

I do use a clean bore snake on that AR barrel.  It works fine for my level of accuracy.  I'm sure you will not see one anywhere near a national benchrest competition.

.1322" 100 yard benchrest world record composite group