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Posted: 9/6/2014 9:48:15 PM EDT
[#1]
Subscribed. Awesome post. I keep my fighting AR very wet, Breakfree CLP. In my opinion, if you're in a high round firefight (over 500 rds) I think you should have a generous amount coated on beforehand to make it stretch longer, and as soon as there's a break of no threat even if its temporary, squirt a couple drops in the exhaust ports of the carrier to coat the rings. (Assuming you have some CLP on you/in storage compartments)
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Posted: 9/6/2014 10:08:42 PM EDT
[#2]
Machines need lubrication.
A semi automatic rifle is a machine. Lubricate.it. What's so hard to understand? |
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Posted: 9/8/2014 5:19:16 PM EDT
[#3]
I always lube very generously with some kind of CLP, I don't buy into the gimmicks and generally use what comes with a cleaning kit or what ever is cheapest when I run out.
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Posted: 9/9/2014 12:44:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Depends on the lube.
This is Fireclean on a suppressed 11.5" at a high round count https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar0UOJbMfDU |
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Posted: 9/19/2014 12:57:20 PM EDT
[#5]
I've never had a lubrication related stoppage. Just use something.
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Posted: 9/19/2014 1:08:19 PM EDT
[#6]
Yes
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Posted: 9/19/2014 1:52:07 PM EDT
[#7]
I've never shot 500 rounds in one day, but I have shot 500 rounds between cleanings. I use copious amounts of Mobil 1. My rifle does not like to be dry.
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Posted: 9/28/2014 4:09:19 PM EDT
[#8]
Ive got about 1500+ rds through mine since the last time I cleaned and/or lubed. Runs like a champ. Im seeing how far I can get
PSA upper. Tulla & wolf steel cased ammo Lucas gun oil is what i use. Kept it liberally coated after every range trip before i tried this little experiment |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 4:22:51 PM EDT
[#9]
1000 rds/day is a slow, conservative use of ammo at a MG shoot.
Using old BB Wolf steel we end up around 500 rds to stoppages/failure to battery starting wet w/CLP. Changing to Mobil 1 literally doubles rounds to stoppage for us. Results have been repeatable. Figure 1000 rds BB poly Wolf roughly equates with minimum 3k decent domestic brass case, in terms of dirt load. Sam |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 7:43:26 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
The answer to me is yes however, I would like to hear from those that have recently attended some high round count rifle courses/classes and those that have been down range and have had some serious exchanges of lead (500-700 rounds without PMCS will be considered high during this post. I know it can and is higher at times but this is the number I am putting out there). I believe that proper PMCS is always needed to include the occasional drop of CLP to keep her running during the sporty times but what does the hive have to say? Brand of CLP or lube is also appreciated in this opinion exchange. For me I have recently changed to Frog lube CLP from Break free CLP. I will note I have no connection to the aforementioned CLP companies I just use some of their kit. Edited to add to the round count! Yes. One course I went to, a quality rifle (BCM, I believe) began choking near the end of the first day. About 5-700 rounds in for that shooter, probably. When it was taken off the line, it was BONE DRY inside. BCG was chemically de-greased, almost. It was lubed, the user educated, and it never had another moment's issue that class, or the next class I took with that shooter. I personally use FIREClean, but before that, MPro7, LPX. I went about 1600 rounds without adding lube, or cleaning, starting clean with MPRO7, and it did fine for the course. |
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Posted: 10/8/2014 7:32:59 PM EDT
[#11]
You guys are nuts buying that high priced shit...All my AR's run Mobil 1 ;D...i have had several 500 round days(all steel cased tula) and thing runs like a bastard.
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:07:52 AM EDT
[#12]
I spent last Mon/Tue at a carbine class. 900 rounds in 2 days. I put a few drops of lube on the gas rings through the carrier after day 1. It wasn't overly lubed prior to the class and it hadn't been cleaned in a while (500-1000 rounds prior to me using it). By the time I was done, it was a dirty mess and looked like I smeared axle grease over the innards (including fire control parts, upper and bolt group. I didn't have a single malfunction but the charging handle was getting gritty doing some malfunction drills.
I purposely abused the carbine as kind of a torture test and it passed with flying colors. If I had gone through the class with my own AR, I would have paid more attention to how it "felt" and may have field stripped it, wiped it down and lubed it if it felt gritty, stiff or otherwise not 100%.. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:25:04 AM EDT
[#13]
The only time to worry about excessive lubrication is during use in a high fine sand or dust environment like a desert.
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:26:23 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You guys are nuts buying that high priced shit...All my AR's run Mobil 1 ;D...i have had several 500 round days(all steel cased tula) and thing runs like a bastard. I use whatever I get for free. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 2:29:35 PM EDT
[#15]
I dunno, i usualy go 500-1000 at a time and initially wet the bolt.
never a problem |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 5:36:48 PM EDT
[#16]
In the middle of a range session, does it help to put some drops in the bolt carrier exhaust holes? That seems like a good field-expedient for times that tyou don't want to field strip.
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Posted: 10/10/2014 2:15:07 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In the middle of a range session, does it help to put some drops in the bolt carrier exhaust holes? That seems like a good field-expedient for times that tyou don't want to field strip. Yes. Oil is the answer to all the bullshit myths about "inherent unreliability" of direct impingement Stoner rifles. Better too much than too little, generally. I can only think of three definitions of "too much" (there may be others): 1. So much that (is there such a thing as) ammo with unsealed primers gets soaked and fails to fire. 2. Someone mentioned an environment with ultra-fine dust that can mix with excessive oil, turn to sludge and foul the weapon. 3. The weapon is so dripping with oil that you can't hold on to it. I tend not to worry too much about looking like a doof with CLP seeping out around my FCG pins and selector shaft. (It's my rifle and I'll oil it if I want to... oil it if I want to. Can you hear the tune?) You fired a couple hundred rounds and your bolt looks dry. Give her a squirt. Get a face full of CLP the next few rounds. GTG. It's a gun range. You're supposed to get dirty. 
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Posted: 10/10/2014 5:33:30 PM EDT
[#18]
I suspect that those who brag about how infrequently they clean their AR or how dry they keep it have never carried one around in the rain for hours. You will end up taking your boot to the charging handle or spraying tons of CLP through the ejection port and waiting if you let your unprotected AR get wet and have the internals start to rust.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The only time to worry about excessive lubrication is during use in a high fine sand or dust environment like a desert. The worst was the start of rainy season or an unexpected storm in Iraq. Not really AR related, but I can appreciate the spring and piston design of AK style rifles and machine guns with how the spring does not compress straight back inside the piston. This allows for the spring channel in the piston to be considerably wider than the spring and thus very much more fault tolerant and immune to binding up if it rusts. 240s and 249s are especially troublesome when the weather changes from being dry and superfine dusty to monsoon mid-mission. The action spring tends to rust and bind to spring channel inside the piston. With AR style rifles, the tight tolerances and strong lockup between the locking lugs on the bolt and the chamber result in just a small amount of rust seizing the firearm up. |
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Posted: 11/11/2014 10:47:28 PM EDT
[#19]
I just thought I would add that I use synthetic automatic transmission fluid (ATF) and have had VERY good results in regards to longevity over high round counts (i.e. the lubricated parts staying 'wet'). ATF is slower to burn off from the heat than anything else I've tried, and a whole quart of it is very affordable. It also doesn't attract dust as much as regular motor oil IME.
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Posted: 11/12/2014 12:15:24 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes. Oil is the answer to all the bullshit myths about "inherent unreliability" of direct impingement Stoner rifles. Better too much than too little, generally. I can only think of three definitions of "too much" (there may be others): 1. So much that (is there such a thing as) ammo with unsealed primers gets soaked and fails to fire. 2. Someone mentioned an environment with ultra-fine dust that can mix with excessive oil, turn to sludge and foul the weapon. 3. The weapon is so dripping with oil that you can't hold on to it. I tend not to worry too much about looking like a doof with CLP seeping out around my FCG pins and selector shaft. (It's my rifle and I'll oil it if I want to... oil it if I want to. Can you hear the tune?) You fired a couple hundred rounds and your bolt looks dry. Give her a squirt. Get a face full of CLP the next few rounds. GTG. It's a gun range. You're supposed to get dirty. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In the middle of a range session, does it help to put some drops in the bolt carrier exhaust holes? That seems like a good field-expedient for times that tyou don't want to field strip. Yes. Oil is the answer to all the bullshit myths about "inherent unreliability" of direct impingement Stoner rifles. Better too much than too little, generally. I can only think of three definitions of "too much" (there may be others): 1. So much that (is there such a thing as) ammo with unsealed primers gets soaked and fails to fire. 2. Someone mentioned an environment with ultra-fine dust that can mix with excessive oil, turn to sludge and foul the weapon. 3. The weapon is so dripping with oil that you can't hold on to it. I tend not to worry too much about looking like a doof with CLP seeping out around my FCG pins and selector shaft. (It's my rifle and I'll oil it if I want to... oil it if I want to. Can you hear the tune?) You fired a couple hundred rounds and your bolt looks dry. Give her a squirt. Get a face full of CLP the next few rounds. GTG. It's a gun range. You're supposed to get dirty. This^^ 
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Posted: 11/12/2014 1:42:02 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
The answer to me is yes however, I would like to hear from those that have recently attended some high round count rifle courses/classes and those that have been down range and have had some serious exchanges of lead (500-700 rounds without PMCS will be considered high during this post. I know it can and is higher at times but this is the number I am putting out there). I believe that proper PMCS is always needed to include the occasional drop of CLP to keep her running during the sporty times but what does the hive have to say? Brand of CLP or lube is also appreciated in this opinion exchange. For me I have recently changed to Frog lube CLP from Break free CLP. I will note I have no connection to the aforementioned CLP companies I just use some of their kit. Edited to add to the round count! Yes. I watched a BCM rifle take a dump only 600 or so rounds in on day 1 of a carbine course. The user had not lubed it at all. I never once saw it fail afterwards. I personally lubed my weapon before the course, fired around 16-1700 rounds, and took it home and cleaned it. Did fine. |
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Posted: 11/16/2014 6:05:58 AM EDT
[#22]
I believe in oil. Mobil 1 is my choice. If I leave home without Mobil 1 then I'll use whatever is available. Whatever you do, keep the working parts oiled.
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Posted: 11/18/2014 1:44:41 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Subscribed. Awesome post. I keep my fighting AR very wet, Breakfree CLP. In my opinion, if you're in a high round firefight (over 500 rds) I think you should have a generous amount coated on beforehand to make it stretch longer, and as soon as there's a break of no threat even if its temporary, squirt a couple drops in the exhaust ports of the carrier to coat the rings. (Assuming you have some CLP on you/in storage compartments) DISREGARD, responded to wrong post. You're spot on. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 11:54:57 AM EDT
[#24]
My .02 here
I shot a rifle yesterday that hadn't been cleaned in ~1,200 rounds. Long periods of sitting in the safe between shoots. Irregularly cleaned during its life. Yesterday I had malfunctions that resembled short stroking... bent cases behind the shoulder, failure to go into battery, bolt over base, FTF including failure to pick up a round out of the mag. I just stripped the BCG and found wear on the cam pin including light rust on the pivot area, wear in the cam pin slot on the carrier. Dry as a bone. Food for thought. Just a modicum of maintenance would've prevented this. This was a beater rifle I abused. Problem is, the abuse is gonna cost me a new cam pin at minimum, a new bolt carrier if I can't smooth the pin slot. Also turned a fun shooting session into a frustrating experience; my ocd wouldn't let me have fun until I figured out the problem. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 2:15:22 AM EDT
[#25]
When shooting 600 rounds the rifle gets so hot I sweat
I harvest this sweat and extract the oils then spit into the ejection port a few times. |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 3:17:52 AM EDT
[#26]
Piston AR add a few drops of oil and go. Clean every 1,000-1200.
DI add a teaspoon of oil or so every 100-200 rounds. Clean every 400-600. Since most people can only carry a few hundred rounds (typical basic load is 210 rounds), and lots of other bigger and more important weapons do most of the fighting, I don't think there are a lot of vets who have been in multiple fights shooting over 500 rounds in rapid succession. We used to train 1-2 times a week where we'd all use a basic load quickly. The malfunction rate of M4's during these drills was pretty alarming. More lube definitely helped some. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 2:00:52 AM EDT
[#27]
I've never seen a M4/M16 do that many rounds downrange, Usually the big boy guns are in play in that serious of a firefight. Closest I've seen an M4 do that much is last time a few days before we left we all dumped our 7 mag load at the range...Most of the weapons did it without hiccup, all were lubed heavily though. I brought a bottle of slip 2000 with me for mine and never had a problem. The standard issue CLP was G96 synthetic, In my experience it is better to have a well lubed dirty weapon, than a spotless dry one.
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Posted: 12/19/2014 2:39:36 AM EDT
[#28]
Piston owner chiming in here. I usually shoot my M6 IC the most and I use little to no lube most of the time. The entire BCG is NiB and the entire rifle is cerakoated. I also took the gas rings off the bolt since I don't need them. I have yet to have an issues. That being said thus far I've just used it to plink and haven't done anything serious yet with it. It hasn't jammed up when I've done mag dumps.
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Posted: 12/27/2014 8:37:26 AM EDT
[#29]
I clean my rifles the next day after shooting them. I do that because I don't know the next time I will shoot them and the cleaning is much easier the lees rounds through them.
As for oil I used to run Breakfree LP and switched over to Slip EWL a couple of years ago. To be honest I don't see a difference. The guns get a drop of lube on all the spots on the BCG before shooting and I doubt I shoot more than 2 or 3 hundred rounds at a time. So the point here is run the gun wet. pick your favorite lube and apply at the start and every 400 to 500 rounds. because lubes dry up and burn off. if your one of those guys that don't want to clean at least keep it wet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBO7P43sLVE |
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Posted: 1/3/2015 12:46:55 AM EDT
[#30]
Mobile 1 synthetic 5w30 in the summer and synthetic 5w20 in the winter. I've fired all day long and not at any point had a failure due to lube. I've had the rifle so hot it could no longer be handled because of heat. My one can of oil will last me until I get tired of it and pour it in the truck. Then I'll open another one and use it for awhile (weapon always gets fresh oil
 )
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Posted: 1/21/2015 3:25:44 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Piston AR add a few drops of oil and go. Clean every 1,000-1200. DI add a teaspoon of oil or so every 100-200 rounds. Clean every 400-600. Since most people can only carry a few hundred rounds (typical basic load is 210 rounds), and lots of other bigger and more important weapons do most of the fighting, I don't think there are a lot of vets who have been in multiple fights shooting over 500 rounds in rapid succession. We used to train 1-2 times a week where we'd all use a basic load quickly. The malfunction rate of M4's during these drills was pretty alarming. More lube definitely helped some. What kind of environment? I've never seen failure rates that high with AR-15s. And I've never used that much lube. I wish I could remember all the oils I've used, but it's mostly been Break-Free CLP and Eezox. I like Eezox as it will dry and leave a film, which doesn't wipe away easily. Works well in the cold too, and one of the best for corrosion protection. |
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Posted: 1/21/2015 3:39:37 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What kind of environment? I've never seen failure rates that high with AR-15s. And I've never used that much lube. I wish I could remember all the oils I've used, but it's mostly been Break-Free CLP and Eezox. I like Eezox as it will dry and leave a film, which doesn't wipe away easily. Works well in the cold too, and one of the best for corrosion protection. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Piston AR add a few drops of oil and go. Clean every 1,000-1200. DI add a teaspoon of oil or so every 100-200 rounds. Clean every 400-600. Since most people can only carry a few hundred rounds (typical basic load is 210 rounds), and lots of other bigger and more important weapons do most of the fighting, I don't think there are a lot of vets who have been in multiple fights shooting over 500 rounds in rapid succession. We used to train 1-2 times a week where we'd all use a basic load quickly. The malfunction rate of M4's during these drills was pretty alarming. More lube definitely helped some. What kind of environment? I've never seen failure rates that high with AR-15s. And I've never used that much lube. I wish I could remember all the oils I've used, but it's mostly been Break-Free CLP and Eezox. I like Eezox as it will dry and leave a film, which doesn't wipe away easily. Works well in the cold too, and one of the best for corrosion protection. Iraq. 95-110 degrees, and sandy. We were doing fire and maneuver drills, so the guys in the SBF positions would heat their weapons up pretty quick. I've never seen that many issues before or since. We were using CLP. In retrospect, thicker oil or grease may have helped. I'm sure some of the issues were ammo/mag related, but most were not, since we all started with new mags. |
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Posted: 1/23/2015 12:44:36 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just thought I would add that I use synthetic automatic transmission fluid (ATF) and have had VERY good results in regards to longevity over high round counts (i.e. the lubricated parts staying 'wet'). ATF is slower to burn off from the heat than anything else I've tried, and a whole quart of it is very affordable. It also doesn't attract dust as much as regular motor oil IME. i had started using ATF in my suppressed uppers for the same reason, it cookd off slower than anything else. one guy mentioned that ATF has friction enhancers and that steered me away and into straight mobil 1 for the suppressed stuff |
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Posted: 1/23/2015 12:18:13 PM EDT
[#34]
Simply put, AR's like to run wet. Or well lubricated.
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Posted: 1/25/2015 7:18:08 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Piston AR add a few drops of oil and go. Clean every 1,000-1200. DI add a teaspoon of oil or so every 100-200 rounds. Clean every 400-600. Since most people can only carry a few hundred rounds (typical basic load is 210 rounds), and lots of other bigger and more important weapons do most of the fighting, I don't think there are a lot of vets who have been in multiple fights shooting over 500 rounds in rapid succession. We used to train 1-2 times a week where we'd all use a basic load quickly. The malfunction rate of M4's during these drills was pretty alarming. More lube definitely helped some. So many variables like ammunition, magazines, age of weapons, lubricant, etc, etc. What year was this? The M4 got new buffers and extractor springs in 2007. I personally use grease, keeps the gun far cleaner than CLP and it lasts a whole lot longer. Put over 1,000 rounds through my rifle without cleaning or adding lube and the only dry part was the bolt tail(which is a given). |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 7:24:27 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So many variables like ammunition, magazines, age of weapons, lubricant, etc, etc. What year was this? The M4 got new buffers and extractor springs in 2007. I personally use grease, keeps the gun far cleaner than CLP and it lasts a whole lot longer. Put over 1,000 rounds through my rifle without cleaning or adding lube and the only dry part was the bolt tail(which is a given). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Piston AR add a few drops of oil and go. Clean every 1,000-1200. DI add a teaspoon of oil or so every 100-200 rounds. Clean every 400-600. Since most people can only carry a few hundred rounds (typical basic load is 210 rounds), and lots of other bigger and more important weapons do most of the fighting, I don't think there are a lot of vets who have been in multiple fights shooting over 500 rounds in rapid succession. We used to train 1-2 times a week where we'd all use a basic load quickly. The malfunction rate of M4's during these drills was pretty alarming. More lube definitely helped some. So many variables like ammunition, magazines, age of weapons, lubricant, etc, etc. What year was this? The M4 got new buffers and extractor springs in 2007. I personally use grease, keeps the gun far cleaner than CLP and it lasts a whole lot longer. Put over 1,000 rounds through my rifle without cleaning or adding lube and the only dry part was the bolt tail(which is a given). It was in 07-08. I don't remember what buffer/spring. Weapons and mags were issued brand new. |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 7:36:37 PM EDT
[#37]
Lube is key. My 16000 round no cleaning AR ran fine with just adding lube. This is with tossing it in dirty water, and mag dumls until the handguards melted off. No issues, just more lube.
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Posted: 1/26/2015 12:02:24 PM EDT
[#38]
Post withdrawn and placed into another thread by Milmatch. |
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