Hi, to make this as short as possible, I use strictly "PMC- Bronze & PMC -Xtac" (copper jacketed ammo) in my ARs and Pistols, and only cheap steel cased Russian ammo in my AK's (Not sure what that ammo is jacketed with though, maybe copper also).

Ive mainly use Dry bore snakes when the bbl is hot (one with some CLP for cleaning/stoarge)/ Otis Ripcords for the tight fit/pull through, and CLP to keep things clean in general (I thought).

Tonight, when shining a borelight up the breach, and looking down the muzzle, Bore's looked blindingly bright and shiny in my ARs and AKs as usual after running a lil CLP on Boresnakes threw them since I haven't shot em in awhile.

THEN, I was looking at my "M&P"-AR that has had about 500-600 rounds through it, so I shined the light on the muzzle area and looked past the Crown inside the bore and could see about an inch deep and how the "Rifling/grooves" were an either Bronze, or a Hazy Whitish color that were side by side in a pattern. The Bronze was on the Rifling that stands outward, and the patchy haziness was on the inward grooves.

I was planning to zero an "Aimpoint" on that exact AR this weekend, but I think I maaaay need a "Copper/ All in 1" -Cleaner now, to get its true accuracy. (Plus this will be a reoccuring problem if not handled, I always thought I could get by with just CLP)

Also, Its a "Melonite" Coated Bore -*M&P Sport*), my pistols are chrome/chrome lined and could use a good bore cleaner for Copper streaks, and unfortunately anything other than CLP will literally melt the finish off of my "Arsenal" AK's (I'll worry about them later though).

So, the thing is, I want a great cleaner that will remove what I assume is Copper fouling (Maybe lead fouling also, being the whitish haziness)... I have some Hoppe's #9 but do not wanna go that route.

I DO NOT want any "Harsh Solvent" where I'll have to worry about cleaning out every drop or layer (especially if it gets in the lug recess area, would be a pure PITA) or anything that could even remotely "Harm" the Bore or Finish (or myself, lol). Id just like to be able to use something quick & easy, and then lube it with CLP, and put it back in the safe. I have Nylon Coated "Dewey Rods" with jags also if needed.

Any Ideas of Safe/Simple/NON-HARSH (but "Effective") Bore cleaners, that would do the job and not cause a headache for a person OCD about reliability and quality, yet simple when cleaning them?? Alot of new-age cleaners out now that won't get you high from the fumes. It can even be a Mild cleaner as long as it's effective on copper and safe on the Bore if left in nooks or crannies on accident.

Have you tried "Sharp Shoot R Wipe-Out"

It's a foaming cleaner that you spray in the barrel, leave overnight, patch out in the morning.. Works great IMHO for everything except lead.

To test it, I cleaned a barrel with Hoppes #9, then cleaned it with CLP and Butches Bore Shine. It looked pretty spotless.

Then I sprayed the Wipe Out and let it sit overnight.. The patch came out blue, indicating it was removing more copper.. I foamed it up again, let it sit overnight and nothing!

I have had some stubborn copper fowling with my 300 win mag, but i've gotten most of it out with Wipe Out.

Give it a try and see how you like it. You can also get the accelerator so you don't have to wait overnight.

Wipe Out Link

It also has no fumes and doesn't require the use of a brush.. I really only use this to clean copper fowling issues and still use Butch's for my normal cleaning (I think butch's is the absolute best for cleaning powder residue, but it smells terrible).

I have tried just about every type of Cu++ removal method, including the Foul-Outs.  

Two techniques stand out.  First, Patch-Out (Wipe-Out = spray foam version) consistently removes Cu++ that standard and strong NH3+ cleaners leave behind.  Company claims it can be left in the bore, and I believe them.  I am apt to leave it in the bore for a few days if I shoot right before a busy work week.  The directions are simple and descriptive.  Used as directed, you will see no residual Cu++ streaks.

The second method, Kroil and Paste, is the time-tested standard bench rest technique.  I find it amusing that folks worry about a quality abrasive paste hurting their chromed AR bbls, when benchrest shooters who will notice .05 MOA loss consider abrasives/Kroil de rigeur.  After 2000 rds Wolf you can see metal deposits that appear as lumps toward the muzzle, kinda like leading.  Abrasives are a big help here, and speed the process considerably.  

Anyway, I have used both approaches, and sequentially after a MG shoot, with completely satisfactory results.  

Sam

Melonite or SBP or nitriding is NOT a "coating".  It is a molecular change in the surface metal.

You will not damage it using any of the bore cleaners.  I use Hoppe's 9 for a bore cleaner.

CLP will not damage it either.

How do I keep the cleaner from getting into the nearly INCH LONG "Lug Recess Area" between the Feedramp and the Chamber, it can hold like an 1/4" to 1/2" of liquid which is hard to get out???

Also, Flash hider is always in the way. Just odds how my bore looks shiny and almost blinding when using a borelight from the opposite end but when I shine a light past the crown, the lil bit of the bore I can see is almost black in color with brown/bronze streaks and whitish streaks in between, that seemed to wipe off with CLP and a Qtip so I assume the hazy white stuff is dried CLP that probably came right back after I put it up.

I just noticed the same on an Arsenal AK with only 90 rds through it.

Hopefully leaving a good amount of CLP in the bore for storage didn't discolor anything or cause damage, which I highly doubt. Just would like a Mild "Copper cleaner" (plus carbon/lead, and whatever else one product can remove.)

Its simple to do with a pistol barrel which you can hold in your hand but a rifle barrel is so long, 223/556 is a small bore, and the Lug recess area seems like it'll be a puddle. Do they make "AR Chamber Plugs"?

Yes, you can buy and use a chamber mop.  Most attach to your cleaning rod.  Pricey way to do the job.  I just use large Q-tips.  You can get them in cotton or foam.  There is no way to keep fluid out of the lug recess area.  "hard to get out"..........uh, no.  It is very easy to remove using the foregoing.  Takes about 10 seconds.  

CLP does not damage the bore.  Mild copper cleaners we have already addressed.  Just stay away from the high-conc. NH3+ formulas.  

In time you will realize most of your worries are for nothing.  I have cleaned uppers with Windex, diesel, and volatile brake cleaners - not to mention all the usual gun solvents.  Have lubed with various motor and gear oils - dino and synthetic - greases, just about every "gun" oil.  Here's a link to a good read concerning this (Pat Rogers).  http://www.slip2000.com/blog/s-w-a-t-magazine-keep-your-carbine-running/  

Sam

First, CLP has no effect on copper fouling.  
It will clean out carbon and powder fouling given enough time.
CLP is a "do it all" product for field use where you can't carry a lubricant and a bore solvent.  It will keep a rifle working until you can get back home to your rod and bore solvent.

If you want a mild bore solvent, Hoppe's Number 9 has been around since 1903 and is a time tested solvent that won't harm a barrel, no matter how long you leave it in.
In fact, some of the old timers in my old gun club cleaned their Match rifles and just left some Hoppe's in the bore for long term storage.
Hoppe's make a somewhat stronger, but still safe copper solvent as Hoppe's Benchrest Copper Solvent.

For heavy build up the JB Bore Paste and Kroil method is very effective and fast.  It too will not harm the bore if properly used.

The "secret" to getting a bore clean with bore solvents is soak time.
All bore solvents need at least some time to work to allow the chemical to attack and dissolve the copper.
With Hoppe's this will take longer, but it's safer and if needed you can just leave it to soak as long as necessary.

Here's one way to use it:
Run two soaked patches through the bore.
Let it soak at least 30 minutes, then run another clean soaked patch straight through and out the end.
Examine it for green-blue stains.  That indicates the barrel still has copper in the bore.

Just let the bore soak longer, at least 30 minutes, longer if you need to.
Run another clean soaked patch straight through and check the patch.

Repeat until there are no longer any traces of staining.

Notes:  When using patches, don't "pump" them up and down the bore.  That does nothing good.  A patch is intended to carry clean solvent into the bore and dirty solvent out.
Always run patches straight through the bore and out the end in one smooth, easy pass.

Use a good ONE PIECE polished stainless steel or carbon fiber cleaning rod.  Bore snakes and most of the pull-through cleaners just don't do as good a job as a good quality rod.  
Dewey is the "sort of" default brand most people use.

Buy quality cotton patches in bulk from Brownell's.  Another good patch source is to buy a yard of white cotton flannel cloth from a fabric store and cut your own patches.

Most cleaning rod patch tips or holders are brass.  They may leave a small amount of staining when used with bore solvents.  Don't confuse this with copper fouling from the bore.  Any patch holder staining will be around the tip of the holder.
If you use plastic patch holders, be aware that these tend to break off, leaning the threaded portion in your cleaning rod.
Fore that reason I don't recommend them.

A good way to keep solvent out of the receiver and bolt locking lug recess is to use a plastic bore guide.
These are long plastic tubes with "O" rings that are inserted into the receiver and into the chamber.
These prevent solvent from leaking out of the bore and guide the rod into the chamber and bore.
Good ones have a solvent port that you can use to put solvent on the patch or brush and prevent it from dripping into the receiver.
To go with a guide, buy some plastic solvent transfer bulbs.  These are plastic bulbs with a long tip that can be used to apply solvent just where you need it.

Thanks for those tips, made a thread about "Bore Cleaning & potential Gas Port issues"

I swayed away from some of this advice when I found a diff product, but if you and check out that thread which is in "General", maybe you can touch on that,

I'm novice so always looking for an easy way and very OCD about messing something up (I have bad luck alot when attempting to improve something) and ever since that Hoppe's rumor about it flaking off Chrome by getting underneath it, I haven't touched my bottle of it being I don't feel like a patch will clean it fully out..

Im also a fan of the "Slotted tip", never used a jag to be honest, always figured the patch would fall of.. Although it seems that a patch on a Jag may be used for a "One direction/ One Use then discard" purpose.

Had no clue how important bore cleaner was.

I had some brand new pistols that had copper fouling, i guess from factory testing...



































 


 

+++x10 on the Wipe-Out. Have been using it for over ten years now in my HP rifles, inline ML's and my fully rifled slug rifles and it works as advertised. Before Wipeout I used every bore cleaner I could get my hands on and none work any better than Wipe-out. Granted some will clean faster, but requier you use 5x or more patches and much more effort and elbow grease VS Wipe-Out.

All I do with Wipe out is first swab bore with the Wipe-Out acceleorator, then fill barrel with wipe out plug (yes I plug my barrels even though Wipe-out says not to) my barrel on both ends, let sit for 2-6 hours depending on level of fowling, run 6-10 patches down bore till white or near white, lube with Breakfree and store. Have been using this system for 10+ years now and always works well and never caused any issues with my barrels and I own both CM and SST barrels.

But remember this, when you use a solvent that is formulated to chemically attach copper/brass/bronze like Wipe-Out, you should only use bore brushes with nylon bristles and nickle coated jags, otherwise you will always end up with blue on your patches.

First thing i do when cleaning any firearm, i spray brake cleaner down the barrel then brush the barrel out. Then i do my regular cleaning routine.

I doubt that is from factory testing with that amount of fouling.  Have no idea how many rounds that would take but its got to be a lot.

My Kimber Warrior barrel looked brand new (aside from some carbon) after I put the first 4-500 hundred rounds thru it.

I've recently started running two patches through the bore soaked in Hoppe's #9, THEN shooting the barrel full of Wipe-Out, and letting it sit for 15-30 minutes or so.  Seems to clean substantially faster than either of them individually.

I roll up a paper towel, and insert it into the chamber before shooting the bore full of wipe-out.  That being said, I've had wipe-out get into the lug area, never caused a problem.

Save yourself the hassle and get slip2000 carbon killer,725 cleaner,and ewl,the carbon killer removed stuff that the hoppes didn't even touch

for ANYTHING other than lead: gasoline
for lead you will have to buy a lead remover/solvent.

If you bore's chrome lined then all you really need is some Hoppe's solvent and some soaking time to get the bore clean again. Personally I use Birchwood Casey's Bore Scrubber, push 3-4 wet patches down the bore and allow time to soak. Bush well with a copper brush and 3-4 more wet patches. Teh lastly 3 wet patches to get fouling out of the bore and then 3-4 dry patches. My method take practically all day as I like the bore solvent to do most of the work and less for me.

Impala

I used to just use a standard foul smelling bore solvent like Butch's Bore Shine or Montana Xtreme from the outset.

Then I started using MPro-7 first to clean all the carbon fouling out first. Then use MX afterwards for copper.

What I found is that MPro-7 is a far better way to clean a bore in general. It gets carbon fouling out faster than a lot of the 'bore specific' solvents, and carbon fouling is the predominate fouling in any bore.

After I cleaned with MPro-7, I often found that following up with a copper specific bore solvent, it works much more effectively to get the blue streaky patches to end.

Break-Free Foam Bore Cleaner