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vsvo
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Posted: 4/26/2012 8:03:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By jukeboxx13:


Nice job on the bolt. I bought the cat m4 tool because its super light weight and takes all but 30 seconds after i sprayed some ballistiol on it for a minute. It's also idea; for a 2 day class. thanks for your reply and advice.


Thanks. That sounds good to me. Always nice to have another tool in the bag. Take care and happy shooting!

sinlessorrow
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Posted: 4/26/2012 1:24:15 PM EST
Cat M4 tool.

Takes about 1.5 minutes to completely clean the BCG and it gets rid of 95% of the carbon.
Originally Posted by Iraqgunz
This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?
jukeboxx13
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Posted: 4/26/2012 4:13:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
Cat M4 tool.

Takes about 1.5 minutes to completely clean the BCG and it gets rid of 95% of the carbon.


Yea for a complete clean but for a quick clean after 200 rounds takes 30 seconds.
sinlessorrow
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Posted: 4/26/2012 5:42:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By jukeboxx13:
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
Cat M4 tool.

Takes about 1.5 minutes to completely clean the BCG and it gets rid of 95% of the carbon.


Yea for a complete clean but for a quick clean after 200 rounds takes 30 seconds.


i would say the cat M4 tool is a quick complete clean.

twirl the tool for 15-20 seconds on the bolt tail, 15-20 seconds inside the carrier, put a 2"x2" patch on the CAT M4 and twirl it inside the bolt carrier for 15-20 seconds and wipe down the rest of the carrier, takes about 1.5minutes
Originally Posted by Iraqgunz
This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?
jukeboxx13
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Posted: 4/27/2012 5:06:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
Originally Posted By jukeboxx13:
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
Cat M4 tool.

Takes about 1.5 minutes to completely clean the BCG and it gets rid of 95% of the carbon.


Yea for a complete clean but for a quick clean after 200 rounds takes 30 seconds.


i would say the cat M4 tool is a quick complete clean.

twirl the tool for 15-20 seconds on the bolt tail, 15-20 seconds inside the carrier, put a 2"x2" patch on the CAT M4 and twirl it inside the bolt carrier for 15-20 seconds and wipe down the rest of the carrier, takes about 1.5minutes


Ok i see what you mean now. i forgot about using a patch on it and the using it on the bolt carrier. 1.5 minutes is amazing too.
beprepared
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Posted: 4/27/2012 10:41:07 AM EST
I like to soak my bolt in Slips Carbon Killer for 15-20 minutes. Most of the carbon usually rubs right off. If there is any still on the bolt I use a dental pick.
sinlessorrow
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Posted: 4/27/2012 10:56:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/27/2012 10:57:58 AM EST by sinlessorrow]
Originally Posted By beprepared:
I like to soak my bolt in Slips Carbon Killer for 15-20 minutes. Most of the carbon usually rubs right off. If there is any still on the bolt I use a dental pick.


Maybe its me but 15-20 minutes is just to long to clean the bolt.

I take 15 minutes to clean my entire rifle

1.5 on the BCG
1 minute Bore snakes 3 times down the bore
5 minutes on the chamber. Scrubbing and drying
5 minutes cleaning the upper and barrel

Anything more than that to me is just overkill.
Originally Posted by Iraqgunz
This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?
jukeboxx13
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Posted: 4/27/2012 3:46:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
Originally Posted By beprepared:
I like to soak my bolt in Slips Carbon Killer for 15-20 minutes. Most of the carbon usually rubs right off. If there is any still on the bolt I use a dental pick.


Maybe its me but 15-20 minutes is just to long to clean the bolt.

I take 15 minutes to clean my entire rifle

1.5 on the BCG
1 minute Bore snakes 3 times down the bore
5 minutes on the chamber. Scrubbing and drying
5 minutes cleaning the upper and barrel

Anything more than that to me is just overkill.


It's not just you i do the same thing as you do. There is no way ill hurt my rifle by cleaning it. Heck it likes to be clean and wet.
MTNmyMag
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Posted: 4/27/2012 9:13:19 PM EST
just leave the carbon on there, its not hurting anything on the tail of the bolt
Gamma762
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Posted: 4/27/2012 9:32:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By jukeboxx13:
There is no way ill hurt my rifle by cleaning it.

Let me offer a gentle suggestion for your consideration.

The tail of the bolt is a slip fit into the bolt carrier. The closeness of the fit and the seal from whatever lube you have in there is what contains the 15,000 to 35,000 PSI blast of gas from the gas system that makes the action work. There are gas rings at the front of the cylinder, but just the closeness of the fit at the back.

The more you scrape on the tail, the more material you remove or gouges/scratches you make, the poorer the fit and the more gas leaks back into the firing pin area and rest of the internal of the gun versus being constrained in that cylinder area before going out the exhaust port and out the ejection port after bolt unlocking.
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jukeboxx13
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Posted: 4/28/2012 5:26:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By jukeboxx13:
There is no way ill hurt my rifle by cleaning it.

Let me offer a gentle suggestion for your consideration.

The tail of the bolt is a slip fit into the bolt carrier. The closeness of the fit and the seal from whatever lube you have in there is what contains the 15,000 to 35,000 PSI blast of gas from the gas system that makes the action work. There are gas rings at the front of the cylinder, but just the closeness of the fit at the back.

The more you scrape on the tail, the more material you remove or gouges/scratches you make, the poorer the fit and the more gas leaks back into the firing pin area and rest of the internal of the gun versus being constrained in that cylinder area before going out the exhaust port and out the ejection port after bolt unlocking.


Okay i see what you mean. So if i keep the tail super clean it's actually making the rest on my internals dirty. Don'y malfunctions come from having a dirty tail also though?
UncivilEngineer
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Posted: 4/28/2012 5:30:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By jukeboxx13:
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By jukeboxx13:
There is no way ill hurt my rifle by cleaning it.

Let me offer a gentle suggestion for your consideration.

The tail of the bolt is a slip fit into the bolt carrier. The closeness of the fit and the seal from whatever lube you have in there is what contains the 15,000 to 35,000 PSI blast of gas from the gas system that makes the action work. There are gas rings at the front of the cylinder, but just the closeness of the fit at the back.

The more you scrape on the tail, the more material you remove or gouges/scratches you make, the poorer the fit and the more gas leaks back into the firing pin area and rest of the internal of the gun versus being constrained in that cylinder area before going out the exhaust port and out the ejection port after bolt unlocking.


Okay i see what you mean. So if i keep the tail super clean it's actually making the rest on my internals dirty. Don'y malfunctions come from having a dirty tail also though?

No, he's saying you're going to ruin your bolt if you scrape it with metal tools too often.
This is a house of learned doctors.
Gamma762
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Posted: 4/28/2012 9:32:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By UncivilEngineer:
Originally Posted By jukeboxx13:
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By jukeboxx13:
There is no way ill hurt my rifle by cleaning it.

Let me offer a gentle suggestion for your consideration.
The tail of the bolt is a slip fit into the bolt carrier. The closeness of the fit and the seal from whatever lube you have in there is what contains the 15,000 to 35,000 PSI blast of gas from the gas system that makes the action work. There are gas rings at the front of the cylinder, but just the closeness of the fit at the back.
The more you scrape on the tail, the more material you remove or gouges/scratches you make, the poorer the fit and the more gas leaks back into the firing pin area and rest of the internal of the gun versus being constrained in that cylinder area before going out the exhaust port and out the ejection port after bolt unlocking.

Okay i see what you mean. So if i keep the tail super clean it's actually making the rest on my internals dirty. Don'y malfunctions come from having a dirty tail also though?

No, he's saying you're going to ruin your bolt if you scrape it with metal tools too often.

Malfunctions come from not having lubricant where it's needed, like on the tail of the bolt. Fouling is almost irrelevant as long as you have lube.
Don't believe me? Read this -> http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_138/196990_Filthy_14_is_now_over_40_000_rounds.html

Hyper clean your rifle if you want, just don't want anyone to be under the impression that it's needed or even useful, and does have the potential to accelerate wear.
This is...a clue - Pat_Rogers
I'm not adequately aluminumized for this thread. - gonzo_beyondo
CO, FL, MI, SC, NH - Please lobby your legislators to end discrimination against non-resident CCW permit holders
jukeboxx13
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Posted: 4/28/2012 10:58:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By UncivilEngineer:
Originally Posted By jukeboxx13:
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By jukeboxx13:
There is no way ill hurt my rifle by cleaning it.

Let me offer a gentle suggestion for your consideration.
The tail of the bolt is a slip fit into the bolt carrier. The closeness of the fit and the seal from whatever lube you have in there is what contains the 15,000 to 35,000 PSI blast of gas from the gas system that makes the action work. There are gas rings at the front of the cylinder, but just the closeness of the fit at the back.
The more you scrape on the tail, the more material you remove or gouges/scratches you make, the poorer the fit and the more gas leaks back into the firing pin area and rest of the internal of the gun versus being constrained in that cylinder area before going out the exhaust port and out the ejection port after bolt unlocking.

Okay i see what you mean. So if i keep the tail super clean it's actually making the rest on my internals dirty. Don'y malfunctions come from having a dirty tail also though?

No, he's saying you're going to ruin your bolt if you scrape it with metal tools too often.

Malfunctions come from not having lubricant where it's needed, like on the tail of the bolt. Fouling is almost irrelevant as long as you have lube.
Don't believe me? Read this -> http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_138/196990_Filthy_14_is_now_over_40_000_rounds.html

Hyper clean your rifle if you want, just don't want anyone to be under the impression that it's needed or even useful, and does have the potential to accelerate wear.


Thanks i believe you, but do you think it will really get damaged enough to where its a big issue?
Gamma762
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Posted: 4/28/2012 12:28:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By jukeboxx13:
Thanks i believe you, but do you think it will really get damaged enough to where its a big issue?

If you're careful and using a good tool, and limiting where you scrape, probably not.

I've also seen people who have used a file and gouged the crap out of their bolt over this idea that the bolt should be spotlessly clean (and usually dry, since lube "attracts fouling"). So I usually do my best to discourage the practice, not only for whoever I'm talking to but how ever many other people down the line will think it's necessary.

Since you mentioned cleaning at 200 rounds, if you put a coat of a high temp synthetic grease on that whole area, with only 200 rounds fired you should be able to just wipe everything off with a paper towel and put on another coat of grease for the next time.
This is...a clue - Pat_Rogers
I'm not adequately aluminumized for this thread. - gonzo_beyondo
CO, FL, MI, SC, NH - Please lobby your legislators to end discrimination against non-resident CCW permit holders
jukeboxx13
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Posted: 4/28/2012 5:18:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By jukeboxx13:
Thanks i believe you, but do you think it will really get damaged enough to where its a big issue?

If you're careful and using a good tool, and limiting where you scrape, probably not.

I've also seen people who have used a file and gouged the crap out of their bolt over this idea that the bolt should be spotlessly clean (and usually dry, since lube "attracts fouling"). So I usually do my best to discourage the practice, not only for whoever I'm talking to but how ever many other people down the line will think it's necessary.

Since you mentioned cleaning at 200 rounds, if you put a coat of a high temp synthetic grease on that whole area, with only 200 rounds fired you should be able to just wipe everything off with a paper towel and put on another coat of grease for the next time.


Thanks for all the information. you helped me a ton. ill just wpe everything down next time unless its really dirty from like 1000 rounds or something. thanks again.
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