I have read that many of you use mobile 1 motor oil to lube youre ARs. Do you suggest only Mobil 1 or any synthetic motor ? What about Wilson Combat grease that comes in the syringe tube? Does it make a difference oil or grease? Thanks. Stilleto

How about putting CLP in the engine of whatever your drive?

If you purchased a rifle, run what the manufactuer recommends.

My maker (LWRCi) recommends SLIP and/or TWB-25; we use TWB-25 on our heavy weapons, I use it on mine.

+1 I am a auto tech by trade for the time being and thats how we change fluids is by manufacturer spec. id rec sdticking with whatever it says if it says anything in the owners manual. Obviously you can try it and see how you like it and if you dont like how it works you can switch back.

I just ordered the slip2000heavy duty stuff. If I run it before that I will have to use clp. What do think ? I didnt get a manual for my Spikes upper and will have to look at the stag manual again. Stilleto

I don't know about Stag as I have never dealt with them but I'd bet Spikes would give you an answer pretty durn fast if you asked 'em.

Given some of the idiocy in the military when it comes to weapons care, how are we to be sure that what the "manufacturer recommends" is actually a good thing?

Problem?

The military can't get weapons care hammered down correctly.  If such a large and well-funded organization, for which weapons use/care is a core competency, cannot get it right, then how can we be assured that many of these small-businesses can get it right.

Much of the "common knowledge" on lubrication comes not from arduous and scientific testing, but on questionable experience and/or personal preference.

That.

I think thats one of the things that makes this question a bit difficult to get a definitive answer on everyone has their own way of cleaning and lubing their weapon. I guess if there is a "correct" answer the one would be which ever works for you. If  you try it and find out you dont like it or it isnt working out the way you had hoped then try something else.

The only "confusion" on this subject is self-generated.

Note that the military is a USER, not a MANUFACTURER, so your argument doesn't really track.

You imply that there is a problem with military weapons and/or lubrication...maybe in my NEXT 30 yrs in the .mil or an "affiliate" thereof I will find out what you are talking about.

2nd, there ARE numerous emperical studies as to which lubricants work better in which environemts...barring an exhaustive search, I merely suggested the OP follow his MANUFACTUER'S recommendation, assuming that they know something about the weapons they make.

I've used primarily Militec-1 and/or TWB-25; we use TWB on our heavy weapons (.50, 25mm & 30mm heavy enough?) and I use it on my M4...for about 6 years...in Iraq & Afghanistan.

If that doesn't work for you, then maybe the advice of someone like THIS or THIS might.

Tscheuss!

there is an 11 page on going discussion regarding the use of Mobil 1, look at the first page in this section.

Can the very thinly veiled ad hominem attacks in a tech forum.  Go dick-check somewhere else.

Your subjective experience in this matter is just that.  As is mine.  What is an objective fact is that the military, which SPECIFIES how systems are manufactured and maintained, cannot get its collective shit straight when it comes to weapons maintenance (or most other forms of maintenance, for that matter).

I've used Lucas 20W50 - it does work. Finally got some TWB-25, so I'm using that instead.  I'd say synthetic motor oil is a viable option if you can't get proper gun lube at that time for whatever reason.  That's not to say it's preferable.

For some military experience with lubing military weapons.

I carried an M14 for 3.5 years in the US Army.  We were never told anything about using grease one way or another.  We used oil (LSA and PLS) on our M14's.  I got an M1A in 1978 and based on my military experience I used oil on it until 2 years ago with no issues at all (the only reason I switched to grease was I got into M1 Garands and was greasing them so I figured I might as well grease the old M1A, too).

I used PLS on my M60 and I had the best running, easiest to clean M60 in the complany.  It got to the point that the armorers would "give" me the newly rebuilt M60's when they came back from higher level maintenance/rebuild to break in becaue they seemed to last longer and break in easier when I did it.  Every break in a new M60?  What a bear!!!

Oh, I'm using Mobil 1 on my ARs and they are doing fine.

I been using Ed's Red to clean and Mobil 1 to lube for about the last 10 years, works for me....

Just wondering why you think the military cannot clean weapons properly. Is this from personal experience, some articles you've read or perhaps a friend of a friend? Just wondering?

As for the OP... I think you will be fine running CLP until you receive slip2000. As for using Mobil 1, some people tend to like it. However, I suggest starting with CLP and then working your way to other products. Good Luck!

I'm just wondering why you can't spell "chief" (especially in your username) ... what was your GT score, and why did they let you near an aircraft?  Hmm?

Did you like those questions?  No, you probably didn't.  Your post wasn't polite either (especially for a tech forum).  You'd be eaten alive on other forums with a higher ratios of professionals/wannabes and signal/noise.

As for me, you don't need my 201 file.  Ask some of the mods to contact me if you need to "verify" me.  I can also provide other several other members who can verify my qualifications to speak on this issue.

Suffice it to say, I have seen, very personally and first hand, the piss-poor maintenance of weapons and equipment in the U.S. Army for quite a long time.  I have also received (or be subjected to) the piss-poor guidance and instruction that is the best that most Officers and NCO's can offer when it comes to issues like marksmanship, gunfighting, weapons maintenance, ballistics, etc.

The United State Military has been training people in firearms maintenance for more than 200 years. In that time, millions of men and women have been trained to handle and care various types of weapons.

After all, most of those people are 18 your old kids who have never seen a firearm. Yet, after short periods of time those 18 year olds, are able to field a weapon or weapon system in the most vicious places on earth. With that, some of the equipment that the military issues is not the best , I know.  But the cost of a 55 gal drum of CLP is 1000% cheaper than:  a 55 gallon drum of Mobil 1 for lube, a 55 gallon drum of hopes to clean bores with, and a 55 gal drum of weapons preservative. Personally I rather have the money put ells wear like body armor and not carry five different products to do 1 job.

As far as the “cannot get its collective shit straight when it comes to weapons maintenance (or most other forms of maintenance, for that matter).” I am guess you have never see some of the aircraft, ships or weapons that are in service; because if you had, you would know there OLD as shit. They have been operated harder and in worst places  than you or I could think of. Yet they still operate. I am going to go ahead and assume that you have never heard of any of the publications that describe the maintenance that various types of equipment require, and most systems have more that 100 manuals. I would like you to find any other company in the world that can show 18 year old kids to maintain Millions of different pieces of equipment that were made before they were born, to the standards necessary for combat.
However, if you where part of 1st special forces, than stick to what you know and I am sure it’s not describing military maintenance, because my friend you have no idea.

As far as your unprovoked personal attacks. My GT score was high enough to allow me to do one of the most technical jobs in the Marine Corps; and eventually allowed me to receive a commission. and Did you ever think maybe it is suppose to be “crewcheif,” I am sure you didn’t but that’s okay.
I think I am done with the conversation because you just seem like the person that wants to do it your own way; maybe that’s why all the instruction you received seemed so “piss-poor.”

The US military has been kicking ass in every climb and place for 260 years.  I think they know how shit works.

Have a nice day.

I'm one of those guys who tries any and every lubricant and cleaning fluid whenever I can.

I've used CLP ,Rem Oil, and a host of others. I like using Mobile 1. It seems to stick and not burn off as fast.

I've tried using Mobile 1 synthetic grease on my patrol carbine and it seems to be slick as snot. In fact after 300 rounds it still had a nice layer of grease. It is a little bit harder to clean off as it seems to cling well.
Use what works for you and don't worry a whole lot about it.

I used CLP and FP10 for years.

Made the switch to mobil one, and its my go to lube now.  IMHO, it works much better and keeps the rifle wet longer.

CLP and FP10 seem to burn off in short order, and evaporate.  If I lube it up with CLP and FP10, put it in the safe, when I take it out its mostly dry.  The mobil 1 is still there.

I always use CLP and FP10 on the steel parts first though for corrosion protection.  Wipe it all off, THEN apply mobil 1.

Teaching M16 fundamentals, maintenance, and cleaning has been my job every day for almost 2 decades.  15 years ago we used RBC and LSA. 10 years ago we used straight CLP.  Guess what I used to clean my M4 with this past weekend. CLP.  I had CLP in Kuwait and Iraq.  I had CLP in Korea. Every time I shoot and once a month whether it needs it or not a cleaning with plain CLP happens.  Its not the militarys process that is at fault. Its the troops that fail to do the cleaning correctly and the NCOs who fail to make sure the troops do it correctly.  The armorers that work for me know that if they take in a dirty or rusty weapon they get the task of cleaning it spotless.  

Now the 50 cal on the other hand we use straight motor oil to lube that beast.  The Mk19 gets LSA with teflon.

A seeming popular census that many choose to use is BreakFree CLP for cleaning/ carbon solvent and Mobil 1 or some other high end motor oil (I use Royal Purple) to lube.

You will get people on both sides of the arguments (gun lube v. motor oil) protesting various claims and such. Try different things and see what works best for you because everyone has a different experience.

THIS.  And also what Shakennotstirred has said is correct.  CLP is SHIT for a lube, because it does not hang in there at all in extended firing strings (500+ rounds).  Almost any kind of oil is better, IME.  If you like Mobil 1, then use mobil 1.

Personally, I use Mil-Comm MC2500 and TW25B and have found excellent service in doing as such in temperature extremes from 0F to 100F.

Again, the military likes CLP.  I can see their logic, but it is NOT the best.  CLP is SHIT for a lube - it is a lower-cost jack of all trades, and master of NONE.

How do you guys lube it when you use the motor oil..? I am thinking about trying it now that ive read all the other posts on it, do you leave it a little wet as per normal oiling?

I use CLP + Mobil 1 20w50 (Vtwin) for my AR, AK, Glock, and M1 Super 90. Needless to say I am pleased with the results.

After all, the 249 always fires, lol.

I carry a little bottle with the pin point applicator filled with mobil 1 in my range bag.
I use it once in a while in extended sessions. It works.

John!

Mobil 1 is about all I use anymore to lube all my guns. No problems. In fact I have noticed that my ciener .22 adaptor runs longer without problems when using the Mobil 1 over breakfree. I still use breakfree for cleaning and long term storage, but Mobil 1 for lube.

What is so special about Mobil 1 motor oil?  If the logic behind using Mobil 1 is that it is cheaper than a CLP and that an oil designed to be used in an internal combustion engine must be better and over-engineered for a lowly firearm, then even the cheapest no-name brand of motor oil meets those goals even better than Mobil 1.  Mobil 1 is ~$6 a quart.  Walmart oil is ~$2 a quart.  They both meet the same SAE specs.

well at least in the auto world the difference is a lot of the cleaning additives in the oil, and the Synthetic oil the molecules are smaller than in the conventional oil. but as it pertains to lubricity of a firearm i am not sure.
 
 

im not sure about this whole mobil 1 thing being the beat all end all.
i mean do a search for mobil 1 at www.corvetteforum.com and you will find a lot (a whole in fact) of people that wont put it in their lawnmower.
there are more glowing reviews for mobil 1 at a rifle site than a performance car one. wierd

If anyone does not prefer Mobil 1, there are other options available:

Synthetic Motor Oils as Small Arms Lubricants

I'd assume it idled higher since CLP is much thinner than regular oil, more than likely the CLP killed it. Interestingly, newer cars also have their recommended oil weight lighter as well, since a lighter oil will create less drag and thus allow them to post better MPG #s.

All the naysayers need to try Mobil 1 and compare it to CLP.  I bet it lubes better, and lasts longer than CLP.  If not, your rifle won't blow up and you're out 7 bucks.  Yay...

Motor oil is made to endure 5000 miles and 5000 rpm. CLP and most gun lubes are too thin. I think motor oil would hold up to 5000 rounds better than most "gun lube".

I would be willing to bet the clp got burned off by the engine.  using CLP as lower viscosity oil in a car engine will be swept up along the cylinder walls much quicker than a normal viscosity oil intended.  getting light oil up in the combustion chamber probably explains a higher idle rpm.  fuel injection or carb was trying for idle setting but had no control over the idle...... the clp all or most got burned up and she ran dry!!?  

i wouldnt dare comment on CLP vs M1, its hard enough to sway the syn vs dino argument in the auto world.

I use amsoil myself.......but thats what I run in my car also

Wow... lots of dick measuring in this forum... a tad bit unusual...

I don't understand why folks get there undies in a bunch if your not using Lube "A" or "B"

I learned a long time ago that the type of lube is no where near as important as where you lube and with how much and how often..

You want in on a little secret......brace yourself........ The BEST lube EVER..........































Is free.......... there, now you know....

I use mobil 1 synthetic on all my firearms. I even put my ar15 in the deepfreeze to test it and it functioned great lol! if it can keep a corvette's engine running at high rpm then my ar will work with it. i have been using it for years. i am going to get some mobil 1 synthetic grease for other firearms of mine that need grease instead of just oil. but to be honest, i would think that any synthetic would be good. i know regular oil or even some gun oils, in cold or i mean VERY severe cold can lock a rifle or pistol up.

good stuff too!

Say goodbye to reloads and steel cased ammo. I use what I have and what works for me, many companies just endorse what they have a hand in.

Wow, I didn't realize there was such a heated debate over weapons oil.

I do have quite a bit of experience using CLP on military weapons. I carried some variant of an M16 for over 20 years in the service. I fired more rounds than most soldiers, having been an Armorer, master gunner, rifle marksmanship instructor, and competed around the world in marksmanship competitions. I can honestly say I have probably fired more rounds out of a single issued M16 than most people have or will have fired in their entire lifetimes. That is a pretty bold statement, and before I get flamed––I did say Most People. With that said, I am leary to try the latest, greatest trick of the week. I have used CLP and military maintainence procedures––and they have worked for me. I am hesitant not to follow weapon manufacturer's recommendations and current published military doctrine for Military AR style weapon I am intimately familiar with.

I realize that weapons manufacturers, military, and LE have invested billions in weapons and weapons maintenance procedures and materials. They have invested and researched more than I will ever want or desire to. I also am cognizant enough to recognize that CLP may not be the "best" product there is. It is a best compromise for almost all conditions. Some of the latest synthetic lubricants may be better under certain circumstances. CLP is, however, a proven standard. It has demonstrated, under the most severe conditions, to be a single product to maintain weapons. It repels water, is heat  and cold stable, and does not severly attract dirt and dust. Military weapons are used under extreme environmental  conditions of temperature, dust and humidity––they are not bench rest rifles and have to be user serviceable in the field. There are all kinds of products out there, but none have the proven track record of CLP. Soldiers cannot carry bottles of bore cleaner, seperate trigger grease, bottles of lubricating oil, wiping pads, and cans of Gunscrubber––it is just too much for an already overloaded combat load––and experimenting with unknown cleaners/lubricants can be life-threatening on the two way ranges in combat zones.  

The published maintenance procedures and materials for the Army are some of the best in the world. When used properly, they work. As the Cheif mentioned earlier, taking young 18 year olds off the street and turning them into marksmen is actually accomplished very well. Maintenance (both material and procedures) does work exceptionally––when it is followed. Lets be real, we have .50 cals in Iraq right now that are over 50 years old. When we turned in our 1911 .45 pistols, in the late '80s, some of the original frames were dated from the '30s and went through WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. Our M16A1s were over 20 years old when traded out for the A2s, and most spent tours in Vietnam. These weapons would not have survived if the maintenance procedures and materials did not work. Knowing that gave me faith––plus, depending on my own issued weapon through several conflicts has given me confidence in those materials and procedures.

The breakdown, or the problems that are discovered, are sort of the same as what is being discussed here. Everybody seems to have their own ideas, and think they know more than the manufacturers that make the weapons, more than the manufacturers that make the cleaning products, and more than the Army doctrine on how and what should be used. Someone somewhere decides they have a "better procedure" or some "magic cleaner or oil" to make the process easier or better. In the past, I have seen uninformed soldiers use Oven Cleaner, Bleach, Ammonia, WD-40, WIndex, Carburator Cleaner, and even Hot Water from the sink in an effort to make the cleaning task easier. Some swore that KY lube, Astroglide, and Vaseline made their weapons run better and easier to clean after live fire exercises. All of these were supposed to make the cleaning/lubrication processes easier or better, and in the end some caused more damage to the weapons than no oil or no cleaning at all.

When it comes to using a new procedure or product for cleaning and lubricating, I am very suspect if that product is not specifically made and marketed specially for weapons, and even more so, if none of the weapons manufacturers recommend it. If the people that spend the most money on weapons, maintenance, and research and development (manufacturers, military, and LE) don't use it, why would I? I do not have the money, time, or equipment to properly test alternates. If a manufacturer has created some miracle product, you can bet they have submitted to the military for testing and it has already been looked at. Not very much escapes them when it comes to adopting new products––now, the time it takes to fully test and field it, is another story. I do not mind testing new products, but on firearms that represent investments of money, and are required to have the utmost in reliability, I have to stay with proven products and let others experiment. In the meantime, I will let the military be my research agency, and when they adopt a new CLP, I will too.

 

+1 to the above post.

CLP works. It may not be the 'best', but it gets the job done. If you keep your weapon wet it will run, the AR is one of the most reliable systems out there. I have to think more malfs are due to folks getting away from standard procedures.

You don't even have to keep the gun that clean. I just took a short carbine course from an instructor who had not cleaned his AR in 5,000 rounds and his ran like a scalded dog.

CLP- who cares what brand, I use FP-10 but would be happy with breakfree or other.

Remove mag, turn upside down, two drops either side of the gas tube. retract bolt, drop on top of charging handle. Release bolt, drop in each gas hole. Retract bolt carrier slightly, drop on bolt between bolt carrier and locking lugs. pull charging handle half dozen times. You will be G2G for 400 rounds or more.

Repeat.

Gun will run for a long time if you keep this up. When I clean, I used to use solvents, but I don't bother any more. I have a plastic container with lid filled with CLP, I soak the bolt, take it apart, brush with an old toothbrush, wipe with CLP soaked T-shirt, lube as above. I have a chamber brush, well-used, and clean chamber with patch around this brush.

I don't have malfunctions. We overthink this sometimes, I think. And the guys who shoot less tend to overthink it more. The instructor I just had says former special forces guy who runs famous-name school (won't name him, I don't want to repeat this with his name if it's not true) has loaner guns he does not clean for thousands of rounds. Just lubes as above and hands them to students whose guns crap out on them.

The AR is a very mature and relaible platform these days. Stop obsessing over it and shoot the damn thing.

The Wilson stuff drys and cakes up, slip 2000 ewl is what I use now.

Mix 1 quart of Mobil 1 15W50 and 1/2 quart of synthetic transmission fluid. Apply as needed. It'll make enough to lube all your weapons for a long while.

I have been reading these Mobile 1 oil threads for a while. Your car is going to recommend the best oil for MPG. Thats why its always 5/30. Motul is a pure ester oil. Weight should be based on ambient temp. I've tried there gear oil, but think its a bit much unless put on a hot gun. This oil is not changed until it starts to break down which is around 15000 in a turbo motor. Mobile 1 breaks down around 3000.  I have a rifle that I am trying out Mobile1 red grease on everything. In the action it never burns or cakes.

There has been way more money on R&D for motor oil than for guns. This is metal on metal lube. Spend what you want. I do use gun cleaning agents mostly. I have also run a rifle dry for aprox 3000 silverbears, rebuilt the bolt after that.

But I'm not military or a cop. Not high speed or tacticool. I do hunt pig, dog, and varmint/menace type stuff.

This same mix was recently taught at a carbine instructor course at the Indiana Law Enforcement Academy.  What's the deal with the transmission fluid?  I hadn't heard that until that class and was wondering what it does.  I'm hesitant to use motor oil at all and then they are telling us to mix it with transmission fluid.  

One of these days I'm gonna run two carbines at the range, one with Slip2000 EWL and the other with this Mobil 1 15w50 / transmission fluid mix and see what happens.