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Page AR-15 » Troubleshooting
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 4/1/2017 1:19:14 PM EDT
Was really excited, finally got to run some live rounds through my new rifle.  Still excited and like the gun!

Lower is a PSA that I built, upper is PSA 16" midlength with carbine 3.0 buffer, standard BCG no special coatings on it.  I've run 60 rnds through it now didn't have time to do more.  
Really interesting the difference in cycling between my mid and my carbine gas systems.  My carbine gas seems very crisp, sharp, and hard cycling.  My mid has a delay and much softer smoother action almost mushy in comparison.  
Honestly wasn't expecting that much of a difference between the two systems.  

I did find a burr on the right side feed ramp while doing a cycle check with a round.  It shaved brass off the case and marred the copper jacket.  Thought I would just run it a bit and let it wear down or smooth out from use not sure that's going to work.  

I was using gen 2 Pmags 30rnds, they are new and had them filled with  American eagle 223.  I know there's still break in needed on the rifle and am going to enjoy doing it!  I had two failure to feeds....stovepipe (?) both on the right side as the round was angled from the right.  Happened on two different mags where the BCG closed on a vertical round.  Both times I had fired maybe 3 to 5 rounds then had stopped to check the rifle and sights.  Then fired a single round and the next round was jammed.  Extraction and ejection seemed fine (hard to tell where on the clock as it was an indoor range and in a booth) but BCG closed on a vertical round it failed to feed into the chamber.  

My questions:  
Can a burr on the feed ramp cause a failure to feed?  (Stovepipe)
Can a misaligned gas block be part of the issue to?
What's best way to check the gas port for alignment?

Below are pics of manual cycled rnds.  (Not stovepipe)
Ramps
Brass Debris






Edit: Corrected Title (Removed Stovepipe Reference)
Link Posted: 4/1/2017 1:27:13 PM EDT
[#1]
A stovepipe is a failure to eject, not a failure to feed.

No, sharp feedramps are not usually a proximate cause for a stovepipe failure to eject - that's either a weak ejector, or limp shouldering.

A misaligned gas block could contribute to short stroking. Best way to check for short stroking is to load and fire a single round, and see if the empty ejects and the bolt locks back.
Link Posted: 4/1/2017 1:58:43 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 4/1/2017 2:17:00 PM EDT
[#3]
Thanks, OK so my bad on the stovepipe still learning lingo.  
Rifle seemed to eject spent cases just fine (again don't know what direction but was away from me hitting lane wall, out of the rifle and most ended up in front of me in the range alley which I would guess cases were ejecting at around 2pm) and it did lock back on last round (empty mag) without a problem.  

What I was calling a stovepipe was a live round not feeding into the chamber but sitting lodged mostly vertical with BCG closed on it.  
Live round had large indentation about 1/3 rd of the length of brass and it was about 1/4" wide on brass.  (pretty sure this damage was from the BCG trying to close but slammed on the new round instead due to the round not feeding properly)  
Guess it might not have stripped properly from mag but happened on two different mags only after inspecting the rifle and going back to shooting.      

Again not a failure to eject but live round failed to feed properly.

Could it be the brass shavings making it harder for the case to be extracted after cooling then not having enough energy to properly strip and feed the next round?  (speculating.....)  
Thinking this as it happened after a pause of shooting.  Was shooting about 1 round every couple seconds.

Appreciate the help with this.
Link Posted: 4/1/2017 2:27:16 PM EDT
[#4]
Thanks Dano!  Really appreciate the help and explanation, helps me understand the process better.

I'll do some work on the burrs and as I suspected will need to check the gas block.
Link Posted: 4/1/2017 2:29:54 PM EDT
[#5]
Is the bullet nose inside the barrel extension or is the cartridge so vertical it's not even inside the barrel extension?
If the bullet made it inside the barrel extension, is the bolt jammed into the brass halfway down, or is it behind the brass, and bullet's just hung up and not chambering?
Link Posted: 4/1/2017 3:41:04 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 4/1/2017 9:32:34 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Is the bullet nose inside the barrel extension or is the cartridge so vertical it's not even inside the barrel extension?
If the bullet made it inside the barrel extension, is the bolt jammed into the brass halfway down, or is it behind the brass, and bullet's just hung up and not chambering?
View Quote
The nose made it into the barrel extension hitting about 11 o'clock above the chamber opening then bolt jammed itself into the brass case.  
Bolt was not behind the brass, was similar to photo Dano posted.  
Bolt impacted about half way down body of brass then stopped finally just before shoulder of case.  
I can post a picture later of the damage to the jammed round later.
Link Posted: 4/1/2017 10:37:57 PM EDT
[#8]
OK, we're dealing with bolt-over-base misfeed.

As Dano posted, either the magazine is incorrectly seated (mag or magazine catch issue), or the rifle has insufficient dwell time (could be mag issue or bolt velocity issue/gas issue), or the rifle is undergassed and not cycling fully (but just barely ejecting the empties).

Fact that it locks back on an empty mag means it is likely not undergassed, so it's probably one of the other three common causes.
Link Posted: 4/2/2017 2:44:44 PM EDT
[#9]
Thanks now that you say it might be a mag release issue i had an issue with that on initial mag.  Inserted mag and it held semed fine but when i cycled the charging handle to load a round ended up pulling trigger on empty chamber as a round failed to get stripped.  Found magazine wasnt fully seated or latched in.  Thought it was my error...still could have neen. But will check that.....hope to do that tomorrow.
Link Posted: 5/5/2017 8:41:00 PM EDT
[#10]
Sorry guys know everyone has been pinned to this thread waiting patiently for update and/or conclusion........ LOL

So did take a look at the release and everything that I could tell looked fine.  Looked the same as my other rifle.  
Cycled a few more in and out using the charging handle still had the burrs but they weren't as bad as it had been so decided to just run it and see what happened.  Decided that was just a break in issue there.  

On to the rest of the story.......

So there I was finally on the range.........8 rounds into the mag.  Bingo!  Happened......tried a different mag.......happened again after 5 rounds.......tried a D60 happened again after only a few rounds, finally tried a metal mag..........hmmmmmm no issue ran 30 clean rounds.  

Decided I would try swapping parts between my two rifles, tried the following to pin down the cause:
Swapped complete lowers with my known runner.  (No issues)
Swapped BCG with correct lower (Yes Issues)
Swapped correct BCG with incorrect lower (No Issues)
Swapped back to original configuration (Yes Issues again)

Incorrect lower is using a chrome BCG with heavy 3.7oz buffer
Correct lower is using a standard BCG with carbine 3oz buffer

Started thinking through it some more and got to wondering if it was a short stroke issue even though the bolt locks back on an empty mag.  

Decided to swap buffer springs to see what happened......WIN......it ran perfect!

So made sure everything was back to original configuration, with the only change being swapping the buffer spring and it ran perfect.  Actually the cycling felt more energetic/strong.  Felt more like it should from my limited knowledge and experience.  
Ran my known runner with everything but buffer spring back to original and it ran perfect as well.  It's a carbine gas system.....actually felt better than it had and didn't feel like it was beating itself up now.  

Looked at buffer springs and one was noticeably stiffer than the other.  So the fix was to install the flimsy softer spring into the midlength gas system and install the heavier/stiffer spring into the carbine gas system.
Both feel much better now and both cycled great without bobble now.

So it's a WIN and found the issue to be a buffer spring.
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