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Page AR-15 » Troubleshooting
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 1/28/2017 8:20:45 PM EDT
Have taken my new rifle out to sight it in. The first time, it was ejecting fine, 3 o clock about 5 feet or so, shot about 160 rounds. Today took it out today to fine tune the zero, ejection at the 1-2 position, occasionally around 3, and an occasional (maybe once every 20 rounds) weak ejection that just sort of dribbled out. No malfunctions of any sort, just want to make sure that overgassing was the issue, and not something more serious.  Anyone know of something that may be causing the variance?

Faxon pencil barrel midlength, faxon gas block, spikes gas tube, AIM Nib BCG, standard receiver tube spring and buffer. Federal LC brass x193 ammo.

I did go ahead and loctite the gas block set screws and changed the buffer to a spikes st-t2, but wanted some feedback from you guys on the issue.
Link Posted: 1/28/2017 9:07:38 PM EDT
[#1]
Dirty chamber? Clean with CLP and a chamber brush, mop out with patches, re-test.
Link Posted: 1/28/2017 9:12:55 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
Dirty chamber? Clean with CLP and a chamber brush, mop out with patches, re-test.
View Quote


Did that after the first outing. I don't like to leave them dirty, so they get a good scrub when I get home.
Link Posted: 1/28/2017 10:20:26 PM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 1/28/2017 10:37:20 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:


Went the wrong way with the heaver buffer.

Standard ejection should be 4:00 to 5:00 (at least until is may hit the receiver deflector) and 10' to 15' out.


So with the standard buffer, would dare to say that you already had problem with a gas leak at either the gas block to barrel, or even key to top of carrier, and adding the heaver buffer, just compounded the problem isntead.


So hose on the end of the gas tube, some CLP around the gas block to barrel, block to gas tube, pressure the gas tube to around 100PSI with air and check for leaks.  The air will flow out the barrel gas port into the bore, but the gas port will still create enough back pressure to check for leaks.  If you are not getting major air into the barrel bore, then you need to check the alignment of the block passage to the barrel gas port.

ON the B/C, hold the bolt all the way in, CLP around the key base to carrier, and 100lbs of air to check for leaks between the key to carrier.

Pull the Bolt off the carrier, and with carrier with key, dry fit it in to the upper receiver to make sure that the gas tube is indexed with the key. On the bolt, hook a spent case on the extractor and cam the ejector in a few times.   The ejector should be under major spring tension, but is should not bind in the bolt face channel as it being cam'd in and out of the bolt face.


Lastly with the rig back together, pull all the way back on the charging handle, and confirm that both the bolt face stops short of the back of ejection port window by about 1/8" to 1/4", and that the last inch'ish of the  charging handle pull does not become harder then about the pull from half way back.


Simply put, the way to check to see if the rig is over gasses, get it clean and lubed to start with, load only a single round in the mag, charge the round, leave the empty mag in the well, and fire the  round.   The bolt should lock back on the catch (even with slightly over gassed), and the rim of the spent case rim should not be bent to hell.  Also, take a good look at the sides of the spent case, and they should not be scrapped to hell (should be a smooth as before the round was loaded and fired).

Scrapped to hell case, you did not get the chamber brush clean, or the chamber has a lot of reamer chatter to it.

Spent case rim bend to hell, but the case is still smooth, then the rig is over gassed, and may require a heaver buffer to bring the unlock back to normal unlock speeds (so the spent case is not  still too residual  pressure bound to the chamber at extraction).
View Quote


I didn't put the new buffer in until today, after my trip to the range. Just wanted to test it for next time, so changed it now so I wouldn't forget.  I'll have to  find some tubing to test everything tomorrow.

I doubt it was a dirty chamber, as this is a brand new barrel with only 160ish rounds shot before today. I picked up a few of the spent cases, nothing seemed out of the ordinary. Rims were all fine and smooth, no noticeable dings or scratches on any of them.
Link Posted: 1/28/2017 11:00:58 PM EDT
[#5]
Just my opinion, but I wouldn't worry about it as long as cases are being ejected and you do not have issues feeding the next round. When I built my rifle, I was over-thinking things including where my rounds were ejecting. Tried a few things and after while realized I was chasing my tail.

2.5k rounds later and I still have no issues with ejection or feeding ....
Link Posted: 1/28/2017 11:08:35 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
Just my opinion, but I wouldn't worry about it as long as cases are being ejected and you do not have issues feeding the next round. When I built my rifle, I was over-thinking things including where my rounds were ejecting. Tried a few things and after while realized I was chasing my tail.

2.5k rounds later and I still have no issues with ejection or feeding ....
View Quote


Very true, and that's where I will probably land, until there is an actual failure. With the exception of the buffer, I have to go out and find the things to test it, at least without taking it a part, and I don't really want to do that since I just put it all together.
Link Posted: 2/4/2017 7:16:26 PM EDT
[#7]
Alright, went to zero my Trijicon MRO today and took the Spikes t2 buffer with me. It caused even weaker extractions than before. However I did test several different types of ammo today.

Federal xm193, about 4 feet 1 o'clock.
PMC Bronze about 10 feet 3 o'clock
Wolf Gold 4 or 5 feet at 1 o'clock.
Wolf steel cased 10 feet 3'o'clock.

It seems backwards to me, and sometimes (one out of 20) with the PMC it would go to the 1 o'clock and the xm193 (one out of 20) would go more towards 3ish. No failures of any kind so far, but I haven't gotten to run the gun hard yet, so I don't know how it will handle rapid fire.
Link Posted: 2/4/2017 10:48:14 PM EDT
[#8]
Check the ejector for binding or a weak spring. A weak spring will cause forward ejection. I used to clip mine short for Highpower rifle shooting so my brass would eject at 1-2:00 and not pelt the shooter to my right. Also make sure the extractor does not have 2 o-rings on it. Even 1 can sometimes cause ejection issues.
Link Posted: 2/4/2017 11:01:13 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
Check the ejector for binding or a weak spring. A weak spring will cause forward ejection. I used to clip mine short for Highpower rifle shooting so my brass would eject at 1-2:00 and not pelt the shooter to my right. Also make sure the extractor does not have 2 o-rings on it. Even 1 can sometimes cause ejection issues.
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Let's assume there is a bind some where in there. Would that cause the empties to be thrown shorter distances as it gets dirty? I ask because after reading your idea and thinking about it, it certainly seemed like the shorter distances were happening later in my shooting session (maybe 160 rounds).
Link Posted: 2/5/2017 2:03:31 AM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 2/5/2017 3:00:28 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Let's assume there is a bind some where in there. Would that cause the empties to be thrown shorter distances as it gets dirty? I ask because after reading your idea and thinking about it, it certainly seemed like the shorter distances were happening later in my shooting session (maybe 160 rounds).
View Quote

It could be getting small brass shavings down inside the ejector hole. All this is speculation though.
Link Posted: 2/5/2017 3:21:40 PM EDT
[#12]
Alright, I pulled out the BCGs of both this AR and another I have that has run perfectly. Used a snap cap to see how it hooked the rim, seemed to be the same for both. Used the snap cap to push the ejector into place and then released it, to see how far it would throw the snap cap. Both BCGs went about the same distance. I understand this may not be a very accurate measure, but I figured it most simulated the actual ejection of the spent casings. Anyways, after that, I loaded the caps in a mag and manually cycled them as quickly as I could in both rifles, again, similar results from both.

I guess my next step is to try the older bolt in this rifle (by older I mean in years, it may have shot 500 more rounds at this point) and see if it has the same problems. Then I can narrow down if its the gas to weak or strong or if it's the bolt. I hope its the bolt, because I really don't want to try can get the red loctite off the gas block set screws.
Link Posted: 2/6/2017 10:27:34 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 2/7/2017 11:19:25 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Breaking down the red loctite on the gas block screws it a snap.

Old Allen wrench in the set screws heads one at a time, heat/glow the Allen wrench up with torch to transfer head down to set screws until you smell a sweet smell of the loctite breaking down, then change out the allen wrench to a new fresh one to spin the allen bolts out.

Without heat to break down the loctite first, you will just strip the allen channel out of the the set screws.
View Quote


I'm trying to avoid that if I can, but we will see. I'll most likely have to use a heat gun or soldering iron. I already twisted one Allen wrench trying to see if they would break loose.

Also, any chance that a small amount of run from the gas tube to the key would cause any issue? I removed the bolt to see if there was a bind with the tube. There was a little rub but it seemed to still seat easily and slide back easily.


Or would it be possible for the rounds to fire without the extractor getting a good hold of the case rim?
Link Posted: 2/12/2017 5:36:15 PM EDT
[#15]
Alright, went out today. Took both rifles and a few hundred rounds of steel case tula. Put 10 rounds through the new one, ejected about 10 feet at 2ish (better than usual). Then put in the old bcg in new rifle, ejected about 12 feet at 3-3:30ish. Took the new bcg, took it apart, to look at the extractor spring, noticed the insert and doughnut both seemed a little off, so I made sure I seated them better, I also used a fine nail file (one of the foam ones) to smooth out the sides of the extractor, as I felt a slight rough spot on it. Put new bcg back in new rifle, 10 more rounds, landing about 3ish, 10 feet away. Continued shooting both rifles, 10 rounds at a time, alternating bcgs and uppers and lowers (rather than swapping springs and buffers) all giving me about a 3 o'clock ejection.

In my haste to perform the experiment, I didn't bring any xm193, which was the ammo I was having the most issue with. So I will take that next time out and recreate the experiment. And at this point, my only remaining concern is the occasional round that seems to just fall out of the rifle. Not sure what's causing that problem, but maybe I fixed that with the tweaks to the ejector and spring today.
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