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Posted: 9/11/2016 4:27:48 PM EDT
Hello all, get ready for me to vent my frustration...
Ok so here we go... This week, I just got done building 2 brand new SOCOM block 1 clone rifles out of almost identical parts. For whatever reason, I got an itch and got some parts. Went to the range today to sight in my 2 pretty new black rifles, with acogs, which is the first time I've ever spent more than 400$ on a single optic. So I get all the parts together, build eacheck gun from the ground up. I love building ars, built many to date, but these are the first 2 14.5 builds I've done. I'll list the specs as they sit for each gun so we know what I am working with. Build one: Le6921 complete upper Rebarreled to a colt 14.5 socom barrel Colt bcg Colt gas tube and charging handle LOWER Spikes honey badger receiver, use these on all my builds Larue trigger PSA lpk Colt buffer tube with psa spring and buffer Build 2: Colt af upper receiver FN mpf bcg Colt gas tube and charging handle LOWER Spike badger Cmmg trigger and lpk (lower was 100% functional for 800 rounds on a 16" 300blk build) Milspec tube, spring, buffer Magazines used: magpul 20s, 30s, usgi colt metal Part 2 underneath |
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Check your gas system. If it's firing, but failing to eject, the gas block might not be lined up with the barrel properly. Check and make sure your hammer springs are installed correctly if failure to fire.
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Quoted:
Check your gas system. If it's firing, but failing to eject, the gas block might not be lined up with the barrel properly. Check and make sure your hammer springs are installed correctly if failure to fire. View Quote Thanks for the reply. Springs are a+, and the fsb is factory, I haven't removed or anything. They are both very tight. I would think colt could do a gas system correctly, but maybe not... |
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Buffer may be the issue. As far as the light strikes that would be hammer springs, primers or firing pin isn't setup right.
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I'd venture to say buffer vs firing pin since it happens with 2 completely different bcg, perhas because it's not full battery? Carbine buffers to light?
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Thanks for that guide... I have done all of the steps except the extractor, which I will do in the morning. Barrels are aligned since both bolts slip in without even binding, upper 2 the carrier slides into the gas tube SLIGHTLY better into #1 upper, both bolt cams are much tighter to lock than my spikes I had in another gun, and much tighter than a chrome Dd bcg in another rifle I have that has yet to fire, which operates super smooth. The #1 upper is the one that had less issues, but the second is the one that has a tad more fluid motion overall. My hammer springs are fine. I'll re index the tube in the first upper, but nothing different than my other uppers, unless I got 2 bad bcg from 2 different brands at the same time?
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OK, frustration vented. Now get to work and start over again. Bang-click sounds like gas, as Dano suggests, so start there.
This is a good chance to practice patience and problem solving. Please report back on what you find. PS It will be easier if you start with a known working lower. |
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Is there a certain way to check gas with a pinned fsb? I realigned my barrel nut on the first upper since the carrier was hanging just a tad, I'll be installing a new gas tube today. I'm taking these 2 and another rifle (16 middy gas) to my range this afternoon to shoot the shit out of them. My bolts have no ö rings, they spin free, but back and forth is a tad stiff. I'll throw in an old spikes and see what happens to. I've got one lower sitting around that's got several k trouble free rounds through it, I'll throw it in the mix.
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Your parts list say you are using Colt and FN BCGs, but the profile of the BCG in your picture appears to be some other brand. Colt and FN BCGs are round in profile. That one looks squared off. If it is some off brand, I am betting they are out of spec, or the gas keys are not installed properly. That sound especially plausible since you say something about the cams being hard to actuate. Since you have other rifles, and you say a smooth feeling Spike's BCG, I would try the other BCGs in these builds.
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Quoted:
Is there a certain way to check gas with a pinned fsb? I realigned my barrel nut on the first upper since the carrier was hanging just a tad, I'll be installing a new gas tube today. I'm taking these 2 and another rifle (16 middy gas) to my range this afternoon to shoot the shit out of them. My bolts have no ö rings, they spin free, but back and forth is a tad stiff. I'll throw in an old spikes and see what happens to. I've got one lower sitting around that's got several k trouble free rounds through it, I'll throw it in the mix. View Quote Easy to check the gas tube, hence use a piece of rubber tubing on the end of it inside the receiver, and blow about 100lbs of air through it. You should be getting a clean flow of air out of the gas port to the barrel bore. Also to point out, with the reduction in gas port size from the gas tube ID, if you put some CLP around the FSB to barrel and even gas tube to barrel, will have enough back pressure to see if you have gas leaks between the block to barrel and gas tube. Short of piston B/C that a rod will push the carrier back to unlock the bolt, what DI B/C for a gas tube use type B/C does not use gas rings for the bolt????? If you mean that you are using a Mcfarland gas ring instead of the 3- C type gas rings, then keep in mind that the Mcfarland gas ring can be tight as hell in the carrier until it mates in, and can cause some problems as well. If you are using a piston type B/C, with a gas tube, then here is your problem instead. |
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Quoted:
Your parts list say you are using Colt and FN BCGs, but the profile of the BCG in your picture appears to be some other brand. Colt and FN BCGs are round in profile. That one looks squared off. If it is some off brand, I am betting they are out of spec, or the gas keys are not installed properly. That sound especially plausible since you say something about the cams being hard to actuate. Since you have other rifles, and you say a smooth feeling Spike's BCG, I would try the other BCGs in these builds. View Quote Point of view, it's rounded in both guns, they are real colt and fn. Colt bcg and rifle 1 is 100% working now, ran 200 rounds through it. The spikes is broken in from a few hundred rounds so far, so that would make it a tad easier. Needed a tad bit more oil I'm thinking. |
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Nope not using piston type. The bolts have the ö rings, I always thought they looked more like snap rings, so my comprehension is off. Learn something new every day. Ok so rifle #1 is running like a raped ape now. I took it back to my bench, bent the gas tube by accident like an idiot, threw a new tube from another build in progress, realigned the gas tube, put my RAS back in, tried the sliding of the bc, and BOOM. It was hanging up enough to not slide without a few pats. Took the ras off, slid great. I think part of my problem was the ras lockup around the gas tube was pushing it out of alignment, so I punched it out since it's been damaged anyway and needs replaced. Carrier slid in and out like butter. Threw it all back together with a metric shitload of oil, 160 trouble free rounds tonight. It's fixed. Here is a photo with another build I hadn't fired until tonight. http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k547/gadgetguy799/20160913_181623_zps9c7gbesg.jpg Now rifle #2, I've made no adjustment at all to it, and the carrier slides in and out perfectly smooth, smoother than gun 1. I will take it out this week and try it again. Thanks for all the help guys! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Easy to check the gas tube, hence use a piece of rubber tubing on the end of it inside the receiver, and blow about 100lbs of air through it. You should be getting a clean flow of air out of the gas port to the barrel bore. Also to point out, with the reduction in gas port size from the gas tube ID, if you put some CLP around the FSB to barrel and even gas tube to barrel, will have enough back pressure to see if you have gas leaks between the block to barrel and gas tube. . Nope not using piston type. The bolts have the ö rings, I always thought they looked more like snap rings, so my comprehension is off. Learn something new every day. Ok so rifle #1 is running like a raped ape now. I took it back to my bench, bent the gas tube by accident like an idiot, threw a new tube from another build in progress, realigned the gas tube, put my RAS back in, tried the sliding of the bc, and BOOM. It was hanging up enough to not slide without a few pats. Took the ras off, slid great. I think part of my problem was the ras lockup around the gas tube was pushing it out of alignment, so I punched it out since it's been damaged anyway and needs replaced. Carrier slid in and out like butter. Threw it all back together with a metric shitload of oil, 160 trouble free rounds tonight. It's fixed. Here is a photo with another build I hadn't fired until tonight. http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k547/gadgetguy799/20160913_181623_zps9c7gbesg.jpg Now rifle #2, I've made no adjustment at all to it, and the carrier slides in and out perfectly smooth, smoother than gun 1. I will take it out this week and try it again. Thanks for all the help guys! What's is RAS and what exactly was the issue? |
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What's is RAS and what exactly was the issue? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Easy to check the gas tube, hence use a piece of rubber tubing on the end of it inside the receiver, and blow about 100lbs of air through it. You should be getting a clean flow of air out of the gas port to the barrel bore. Also to point out, with the reduction in gas port size from the gas tube ID, if you put some CLP around the FSB to barrel and even gas tube to barrel, will have enough back pressure to see if you have gas leaks between the block to barrel and gas tube. . Nope not using piston type. The bolts have the ö rings, I always thought they looked more like snap rings, so my comprehension is off. Learn something new every day. Ok so rifle #1 is running like a raped ape now. I took it back to my bench, bent the gas tube by accident like an idiot, threw a new tube from another build in progress, realigned the gas tube, put my RAS back in, tried the sliding of the bc, and BOOM. It was hanging up enough to not slide without a few pats. Took the ras off, slid great. I think part of my problem was the ras lockup around the gas tube was pushing it out of alignment, so I punched it out since it's been damaged anyway and needs replaced. Carrier slid in and out like butter. Threw it all back together with a metric shitload of oil, 160 trouble free rounds tonight. It's fixed. Here is a photo with another build I hadn't fired until tonight. http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k547/gadgetguy799/20160913_181623_zps9c7gbesg.jpg Now rifle #2, I've made no adjustment at all to it, and the carrier slides in and out perfectly smooth, smoother than gun 1. I will take it out this week and try it again. Thanks for all the help guys! What's is RAS and what exactly was the issue? Knights (KAC) RAS (M4 Handguard) |
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Bolt catch is catching the bottom of the carrier, and not the the front of the bolt instead.
Quick double check on just pulling the charging handle all the way back, last few inches of the CH should not increase in tension, and face of the bolt should stop about 1/8" to 1/4" in front of the back edge of the ejection port. Also to point out, with empty mag in the well, catch should rise up and when you release the charging handle, bolt should be retained back via the bolt catch on the face of the bolt. If the above it fine, then suspect that either chamber/upper fouled to the point of causing problems, or gas tube to gas block/ gas block to barrel leaking, key to top of carrier leaking isntead. On the Gas block/FSB, CLP around the tube to block, and block to barrel seams front and back, and via piece of rubber tubing, pressurize the gas tube to about 100lb of air via air compressor with blow tip. If you have leaks, you going to see it pretty fast. On the key to carrier, CLP around the bottom of the key to carrier, hold the bolt inwards, then 100lbs of compressed air directly in to the front of the key to check for leaks between the key to carrier. Or, since you do have a working B/C in another rifle, put it into play on the problem rifle to confirm that is a carrier leak on the question Carrier instead. As for fixing a key leak, pull the key bolts and throw them away. Now using a lapping plate and 400 sand paper, lap the bottom of the key straight. Now use the straight key bottom and lap it into the top of the carrier next. Both surfaces cleaned up, few drops of loctite to ask as a gasket when it dries between two, install the key with new key bolt torqued to 37 in lbs ( 3.08ftlbs), then peen metal from key, into the side spines of the key bolt heads. |
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Quoted:
On the Gas block/FSB, CLP around the tube to block, and block to barrel seams front and back, and via piece of rubber tubing, pressurize the gas tube to about 100lb of air via air compressor with blow tip. If you have leaks, you going to see it pretty fast. On the key to carrier, CLP around the bottom of the key to carrier, hold the bolt inwards, then 100lbs of compressed air directly in to the front of the key to check for leaks between the key to carrier. Or, since you do have a working B/C in another rifle, put it into play on the problem rifle to confirm that is a carrier leak on the question Carrier instead. As for fixing a key leak, pull the key bolts and throw them away. Now using a lapping plate and 400 sand paper, lap the bottom of the key straight. Now use the straight key bottom and lap it into the top of the carrier next. Both surfaces cleaned up, few drops of loctite to ask as a gasket when it dries between two, install the key with new key bolt torqued to 37 in lbs ( 3.08ftlbs), then peen metal from key, into the side spines of the key bolt heads. View Quote This was it. I didn't pressure test my gas tube since it seems to be fine, but I have found that the carrier key is indeed leaking. I took this fn bcg and a spikes side by side, oiled the shit out of them, and applied air with a regulator until it pushed the bolt forward. Spikes had no leak at all, but the fn was bubbling before the bolt popped. Cannot say this expirienced has exactly been fun, but at least some learning has happened. I am going to ditch the fn all together for the time being and have 2 more colts on the way. Now the guns are basically identical |
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