Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Page AR-15 » Troubleshooting
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Site Notices
Posted: 8/23/2016 6:11:57 PM EDT
I was sighting in and shooting 5 shot groups on a sand bag rest @ 100yds. I noticed that beginning each group the first round went high & right of the other 4. Roughly .5-1.5" high and .5 tp 1 inch right. I repeated it several times using the bolt release to chamber the first round. Once I saw the pattern I varied the chambering of the first round by trying full mags, only 5 in the mag, first round on the right, first round on the left, first round put in the chamber by hand and bolt eased over it, first round chambered by hitting the bolt release. The only thing I forgot to do was to pull the charging handle all the way back and let it slam home.
This is with the Sierra 65gr Game King over 24grs W748 OAL 2.25", Fed 205 primer in weighed Federal mil spec brass. When I shot some 52 & 53gr match bullets I did not notice much of a difference in first round POI. The reason this is bothering me is I want an AR calling gun that throws the first round into the same group. The first shot is usually the one that counts but I've hit several 'yotes on the 2nd, 3rd and in one case the 12th shot. What do I need to do to fix this? The upper was recently rebarreled with a CobraTac 16" nitrided SS match HBAR 1:8. Without the flier I'm getting 0.6-0.8" groups with the 65gr GK and in the .3s & .4s with the 52gr match bullet. The barrel was warm.
I was not letting the gun cool down but was shooting at a steady, fairly slow rate. There were no cold bore shots.
The reason for the 65 GK was because it shot better than the 60gr Hornady SP, 60gr Vmax, 68gr Hornady HP Match. For predator calling I'd like to use a heavier bullet that isn't stopped by a shoulder bone or hind leg in case of poor shot placement or a running away shot.

I'm pretty anal and really, really don't want two POIs.
Link Posted: 8/23/2016 6:34:31 PM EDT
[#1]
My shooter troubleshooting chart says hi to the right may be caused by "palm of right hand pushes forward at end of trigger sqeeze".

Don't know how to account for it only happening with one load.  May require more groups with a larger sample size, say 10 shot groups instead of 5, to really establish consistent group size and POI.  Just food for thought.

You could play with the powder charge or seating depth to see if maybe there's a better place in the pressure curve for that round with that barrel.  The Sierra 55gr BlitzKings may be another alternative to try,  I see many arfcomers having good results with both their loads and the Australian Outback commercial ammo using them.

Link Posted: 8/23/2016 6:35:13 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 8/24/2016 6:28:05 PM EDT
[#3]
Dano,
The errant first round flier was over time several times on a warm fouled bore. I will try to duplicate hunting conditions where I will use the charging rod pulled all the way back to chamber the round and see if the first round out of a cold (but not cleaned or oiled) bore hits with the rest of the group. My routine is to run a dry bore snake through the bore about 3 times. Prior to the last range session I had de-coppered the bore with Sweets 7.62 and Ed's Red and shot 3 or 4 fouling shots before load testing.

I will check the gas tube line up.
Link Posted: 8/24/2016 6:56:13 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 8/24/2016 9:44:55 PM EDT
[#5]
I won't be cleaning it before the next session other than to pull a clean (never had solvent on it or the loop at the end) bore snake through the bore before going to the range. I do not use CLP. Just Sweets, then swab that out followed by Ed's Red and then dry patches. The cleaning before the last rage session I ran a patch of brake cleaner down the bore a couple of times to dry it out.
Link Posted: 8/25/2016 6:20:39 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 8/27/2016 9:03:32 AM EDT
[#7]
A thought.

The ogive is different between the different bullets yet COL is the same, no?
So the heavier bullets (might) have the bearing surface closer to the tip and will touch rifling sooner.

Then the first round might be squeezed/forced into the rifling ever so slightly, and the subsequent ones that are "slammed" home might set the bullet back a little? Does'nt take much to change POI.
Link Posted: 8/27/2016 7:10:43 PM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 8/28/2016 4:15:07 PM EDT
[#9]
Went to the range again. Previously moderately fouled dry boresnaked (X3) cold barrel,15 rounds in mag: (65GK)first shot high right 1" away, second low leff 3/4" out, next 3 touching. Second group (52gr Hornady HP match: same mag, first shot 1" high left of group. Last group fired: (65GK) using an unlabled steel mag with only 5 rounds loaded, first round only 1/2" hi@12 o'clock rest of group almost all touching. I'm gonna repeat that at the next session.

I am concerned that the barrel may have a problem (improper barrel nut torque, misaligned, bent, etc). When I got it from the barrel maker there was a black spot in the barrle that I assumed was the gas port but swabs would snag on it as I was cleaning all the oil out of it. The first 15 shots were all over the paper @ 50 yds and I was WTF is going on? It suddenly started shooting where aimed and I went out to 100 yds and started working up loads for it.

Almost all my ammo is loaded to 2.25" OAL. The 50-53gr bullets are at 2.23" OAL.
Link Posted: 8/28/2016 8:46:34 PM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 8/31/2016 12:54:02 PM EDT
[#11]
Just cleaned with a rod and ran several courses of Sweet's 762 (brush, dry swab til clean patches then repeat) until I quit getting fouling. Also several courses of Hoppe's #9. So bolt & carrier are cleaned & lubed. Will do the single loading technique as well as load 10 round in mag and shoot two 5 shot groups w/o removing the mag.
Link Posted: 8/31/2016 6:41:16 PM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 1:30:23 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Went to the range again. Previously moderately fouled dry boresnaked (X3) cold barrel,15 rounds in mag: (65GK)first shot high right 1" away, second low leff 3/4" out, next 3 touching. Second group (52gr Hornady HP match: same mag, first shot 1" high left of group. Last group fired: (65GK) using an unlabled steel mag with only 5 rounds loaded, first round only 1/2" hi@12 o'clock rest of group almost all touching. I'm gonna repeat that at the next session.

I am concerned that the barrel may have a problem (improper barrel nut torque, misaligned, bent, etc). When I got it from the barrel maker there was a black spot in the barrle that I assumed was the gas port it was the gas port but swabs would snag on it as I was cleaning all the oil out of it. it's a burr from drilling the port The first 15 shots were all over the paper @ 50 yds and I was WTF is going on? It suddenly started shooting where aimed and I went out to 100 yds and started working up loads for it. you ironed it out and broke it in

Almost all my ammo is loaded to 2.25" OAL. The 50-53gr bullets are at 2.23" OAL.
View Quote


IMO
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 10:24:29 PM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 9/5/2016 12:42:01 PM EDT
[#15]
raise front sight and mover rear sight to the left....................BULLSEYE
Page AR-15 » Troubleshooting
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top