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Page AR-15 » Troubleshooting
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 8/20/2016 11:47:52 PM EDT
Hello all, bit the bullet and paid up for a DD M4V7LW, but upon shooting it, it's recoil is like no other AR-15 I have ever shot- its more like a 308.

I'm used to my issued M4, but have also shot a lot of friends various brands, piston, heavy, light, etc, all have what I look for in the AR-15, a very small or nearly no recoil, but this DD M4V7LW is just a beast- more than I think can be right-- for instance every AR I've shot, the muzzle does not really rise at all and I can keep my eye on the target and see the hit, but on my DD you completely loose site of the target and the hit.

Is this typical of DDs, or DD's LW builds?  May I have gotten a DD that isn't as calibrated as it should be?
Link Posted: 8/21/2016 5:02:12 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 8/22/2016 12:58:49 AM EDT
[#2]
Thanks for the informative reply, and if this were a modified, DIY build, or bought used system, I'd want to get into investigating the variables, but to input the details of the rifle, it is a bone stock totally OEM brand new Daniel Deffense M4V7LW M-LOK.  With the arm-chair google surfing I've done thus far, it feels like the gun is way way over gassed.

On a side tangent gripe, I paid a lot to get a brand new, reputable name and attention to detail build, if I have to investigate myself, take it to a smith or send it back in to find out they put a totally wrong gas block or buffer setup or what have you, its pretty upsetting.  I have an email sent in to them, will be interesting to see where this goes.

*edit, this adds insult to injury, the great nutnfancy himself loving the gun/brand
https://youtu.be/TRGvd21Jt58

Link Posted: 8/22/2016 5:03:15 PM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 8/23/2016 12:14:07 AM EDT
[#4]
I didn't look at the spent cases, but the shell deflector was nicked up really good... didn't think to look at the case telemetry either, learning a lot after the fact doing a lot of googling.

This thing isn't a tiny bit, or little bit, or kinda-sorta more recoil than others, this is a ridiculous amount of lift, nothing in the youtube video of the bare-bones (not a lot of extra weight of gear) DDs danced even a fraction like mine, and I had some gucci gear on mine to boot, last time around shot it with two deployment buddies and it was unanimous, thing was just short of wanting to fly out of your hands, had an M&P sport and a colt CRX-16 that comes in just a fraction of a lb more than mine and both knocked the DD out of the park so I called up DD and got an RMA #, will report back on their findings.

If this is the normal operation, I don't know what all the rave is about with DD, it'll be up for sale.

I hope my tone is not misinterpreted, I really appreciate the effort you put into your reply, and for posting up at all, but this AR shoots like total crap, then to have nutnfancy love it--- I must have gotten a mistake from the assembly line or am just batsh*t crazy, and at this cost its pretty upsetting.  If I wanted an AR that shot like a 308, I'd gotten a 308.
Link Posted: 8/23/2016 12:58:32 AM EDT
[#5]
Daniel Defense makes some of the best rifles in the industry but I don't think they're going to be able to do anything about your perceived excessive recoil.  Having a light weight barrel certainly adds to the felt recoil.

Customers used to cry because they had problems shooting shitty weak ammo and being undergassed.  They opened the gas ports to make them more reliable and now you have people complain about being overgassed.  There is no way they can make everybody happy, there must be compromise.

IMO you're overthinking the issue.  A muzzle brake will tame it quite a bit.  Put one on and be happy.
Link Posted: 8/23/2016 1:29:40 AM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Daniel Defense makes some of the best rifles in the industry but I don't think they're going to be able to do anything about your perceived excessive recoil.  Having a light weight barrel certainly adds to the felt recoil.

Customers used to cry because they had problems shooting shitty weak ammo and being undergassed.  They opened the gas ports to make them more reliable and now you have people complain about being overgassed.  There is no way they can make everybody happy, there must be compromise.

IMO you're overthinking the issue.  A muzzle brake will tame it quite a bit.  Put one on and be happy.
View Quote



Time will tell, about two weeks from ship back date I will get  1 of three answers-
- your a pu$$y, its just fine
- your kind of a pu$$y, we did a little of this and that to reduce the recoil for your pansy ass
- or 'we are very sorry, it was Bob's first day on the job, there was a mix up in a parts bin/he gundecked a check, your gun was way off spec

One of those answers plus how it feels when it comes back will decide what I end up doing with it I guess.
Link Posted: 8/23/2016 3:36:50 AM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 8/23/2016 2:10:23 PM EDT
[#8]
Well that just sucks then, looks like I choose the worst gun for my use-case if its so finicky for the sake of being an LW.

We had four types of ammo that day, some gucci Swedish stuff, a Korean brand, TulAmmo and HotShot, the last two are steel casings.  Will have to ask my friend for the first two brands, I can't remember the names off hand.

The CRX had a hard time ejecting the steel casings, sometimes I guess the casings were expanding too much and the rim would get ripped when the gun tried to eject it, it basically can't eat steal rounds- but it shot all four types of ammo with about the same feedback and weights just ever slightly more than mine.  The M&P chewed through everything all the same, and same feedback.  Mine chewed through all rounds fine, but everything felt like a numbed down 308.

So to make an analogy of this, its like I went to the dealership to get a well rounded daily driver commuter, and ended up leaving with a sports edition of some model and now the road feedback is too much, mileage sucks, can only ever use 91+ octane and other compromises, but hey, its a great brand of car right?  When all a long I should have just left with the Corolla, as the $600 M&P was the best shooting gun of the three that day (the CRX actually feels amazing, but a big dink for not being able to eat steel rounds).  Big kick in the balls as I was looking for the same feel as my issued M4, so should have just gone with builds that emulate that as best as possible...  This is going to cost me $$$ ....

And yeah, CA sucks-- I'd be like so many others and leave but my job keeps me here.  I'm even taking a trip to Texas later this year to do a little 'recon', I'm getting a little more desperate to leave every month that goes by- and I'm 'doing good' so to speak, able to afford a house over here, great job etc.  My friends that have jobs that are a lot more geographically flexible and pay about the same nation wide, I just don't get why they hold out here...
Link Posted: 8/23/2016 6:55:34 PM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 8/24/2016 11:43:00 AM EDT
[#10]
I liked the thought of a LW build and minimalist with accessories, but sounds like in the name of shooting enjoyment I need to make it tacti-cool and gucci, I can live with that haha.  I did already have a 6-1 scope and pod on the rail, maybe a bigger, heavier brake that more aggressively vents up and I guess a light would help.

Hell a Sparta can weights around 12.5oz
View Quote


California....  And you know this, your just twisting that knife in my side aren't you haha

and now what started off as a 6lb platform that had brutal felt recoil, now is pushing in the 9+lbs and has dam near no felt recoil instead.

Hence the concept of the gun was not what if first starts out as, but a platform once loaded with what it may needs for service duty, not scaling over 11lbs to be too heavy isntead.
View Quote


Sounds like a plan.  Still very anxious to hear what DD says, if answer a+b (meaning its to spec, but they pansy it up for me) maybe it won't really need further addressing.  A gripe I have to a friend that is trolling me about this is if a better venting muzzle brake and/or H spring mitigates the recoil, why was that not done to begin with?  I guess there is a use-case to have a 'horribly' shooting (I say horrible because of the reset time just to get back on target) system just to save a few ounces?  Hindsight is a bitch, should have gone with most any other DD build, the whole plan was buy once cry once and not have swap out parts but looks like I'll be getting a different muzzle brake and probably play with a few different combos of buffer springs.
Link Posted: 8/24/2016 4:38:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 9/10/2016 2:35:14 PM EDT
[#12]
So DD doesn't feel the muzzle rise or recoil was anything special on my system- I had some beers wagered with a friend and now I owe him haha.  I am really surprised DD feels muzzle rise like this is fine as my other ex-Marine buddy was very off-put about not being able to see target hits and the effort required to re-acquire the target with my gun.  I called my DD guy and offered I'd pay the difference to have their muzzle climb gen2 brake installed and he was apologetic that the gun was already boxed up and on the truck.  So onto Amazon for a barrel clamp and have a DPMS brake in the mail.

This experience just has me itching to do a build from the ground up.  Coming from the car tuning scene there is a pride from guys, a saying "built not bought", that is echoing in my head now.

Trov notes/ honest review of DD that could incite fan-boys:

Pros:  Great customer service and the reputation is earned, I do not doubt the system is reliable, I do not doubt extra attention and processes are used to ensure the parts are of high quality

Cons:  Did the cost really reflect that much more quality control?  They did have the profits affording an attempted super bowl commercial after all.  It'll cycle anything and operate dirty but that is because that BCG is coming at you at Mach 2.

I honestly could not recommend DD to friends, you pay $1600 for a gun that needs hundreds more put into it post purchase (muzzle brake, H2 buffer or adj gas block) to it so it can keep up with a $600 M&P in a course like setting- because I got an AR15 for the speed you can operate it at vs a 308 or 7.62 after all.  At this price point I'd be very curious to run a BCM- but ultimately I'm going to avoid built guns and do a frankenbuild.
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AR Sponsor: bravocompany
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