Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Page AR-15 » Troubleshooting
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 7/26/2016 1:29:05 PM EDT
Neighbor came to me with a 20" A2 he had a friend build for him and asked me to help him trouble shoot it.

The gun easily chambers a round from the magazine, either from BHO or using the charging handle from a bolt forward position.  First round fires, zero issues.  Ejection and extraction are not an issue, and the bolt returns to battery after the round is fired.  

But the bolt is not picking up the next round out of the magazine.  

What I have done so far:  Tried 20 round, 30 round pmags and 30 round GI mags, along with four different types of 55 gr and 62 gn ammunition.  With every single mag/ammo combination, when a single round is loaded in the magazine the round will chamber and fire, the casing will eject, but the bolt will not lock back.  With every single combination of mag/ammo loaded to 2 in the magazine, the first round will chamber, fire, eject fine and the bolt will return to battery...but not pick up the second round in the magazine.

I brought along one of my ARs, and tried a few different parts combinations.  My BCG in his upper/lower has the same problems as his gun did.  However, his 20" upper and BCG on my carbine lower will lock back with only one round in the magazine, and will pick up the second round in the magazine no problems, using the same variety of mags/ammo that failed to do so in his upper/lower.

I'm really unsure how to proceed.  It appears to me that his upper (bolt, gas system, all the usual suspects) is fine, since any combo of mags/ammo worked on my lower with his upper.  I'm wondering if the bolt catch, magazine release or buffer in his lower are to blame.  

Any suggestions on how to continue troubleshooting?  Never had this issue with any of my ARs, so I didn't know what to look at next.  

Link Posted: 7/26/2016 1:35:24 PM EDT
[#1]
Got to be a gas problem.  Check the BCG key for a popped primer clogging it.  Move to the gas rings then gas tube to eliminate.

Stupid question I know but:  Are you running it wet with lube?
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 1:38:29 PM EDT
[#2]
I read it to fast sorry.  Missed the part where you said it ran fine on your lower.

If it's an A2 it might have an AR10 buffer, spring, or both in it.  That and no lube.

Tag for results.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 1:45:13 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Stupid question I know but:  Are you running it wet with lube?
View Quote


I don't know if he was the first time he had problems with it, but I asked if I could take it apart and clean it before we went to the range, so I was running it pretty wet this time out.

It's a newer build, I think he had it out for the first time last week and discovered it wasn't working right.  The guy who built it for him is out of town, so he asked me to take a look.  Rifle has ~50 rounds through it now, I'd estimate.  

ETA:  I really should have tried my upper and his lower.  Damn it, that would have been smart.  



Link Posted: 7/26/2016 1:53:33 PM EDT
[#4]
If it's not picking up another round it's short stroking.  I intentionally run a AR10 spring when I'm shooting M855.  It doesn't work well with anything but M855 because it leads to short stroking.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 3:48:01 PM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 4:04:02 PM EDT
[#6]
May want to start by tossing your buffer and spring into his lower since that's so simple.  If the problem persists, you can rule out his buffer being too heavy or spring too long or stiff. At that point you've ruled out everything except a problem with the lower.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 4:11:36 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
May want to start by tossing your buffer and spring into his lower since that's so simple.  If the problem persists, you can rule out his buffer being too heavy or spring too long or stiff. At that point you've ruled out everything except a problem with the lower.
View Quote


This won't work unless you have an A2 lower.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 4:17:34 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


This won't work unless you have an A2 lower.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
May want to start by tossing your buffer and spring into his lower since that's so simple.  If the problem persists, you can rule out his buffer being too heavy or spring too long or stiff. At that point you've ruled out everything except a problem with the lower.


This won't work unless you have an A2 lower.


I have an A2 lower I could take the buffer/spring out of to try in his.

Thanks for the suggestions so far, I'm heading out of town tomorrow so it'll be next week before I can get back with him and examine the gun again.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 4:54:50 PM EDT
[#9]
It sounds like a gas problem to me.  It is short stroking.  Check the gas key to make sure it is staked properly and check the gas rings and make sure they are not all lined up.  They need to be staggered.  The only other thing it could be is the buffer spring/buffer but I would check the gas system first.  

Link Posted: 7/26/2016 4:55:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Looking forward to hearing the follow up.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 10:48:25 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It sounds like a gas problem to me.  It is short stroking.  Check the gas key to make sure it is staked properly and check the gas rings and make sure they are not all lined up.  They need to be staggered.  The only other thing it could be is the buffer spring/buffer but I would check the gas system first.  

View Quote

They already determined it's not a gas problem when they put the suspect upper and BCG in the OP's lower and it worked properly. Like you, I thought at first it was a gas problem too.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 10:58:32 PM EDT
[#12]
Sounds like something on his lower is out of spec..,

Mag catch a little low?
Link Posted: 8/2/2016 5:07:35 PM EDT
[#13]
A2 screw on an A1 stock?  It sounds like something is keeping the buffer from going all the way back.  It could be the wrong buffer, the wrong spring, or an obstruction in the tube.
Link Posted: 8/2/2016 6:41:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
A2 screw on an A1 stock?  It sounds like something is keeping the buffer from going all the way back.  It could be the wrong buffer, the wrong spring, or an obstruction in the tube.
View Quote



Exactly what I was going to ask and suggest. Something extra in the bottom of the receiver in extension would block the carrier from traveling far enough back to pick up the next round.
Link Posted: 8/2/2016 8:10:36 PM EDT
[#15]
The problem is going to be found inside the buffer tube as many have stated.
Link Posted: 8/3/2016 11:00:39 AM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The problem is going to be found inside the buffer tube as many have stated.
View Quote


It's looking that way.  Went over this morning to look at it a bit more.  Bolt goes past ejection port when charging handle is pulled.  Pulled the buffer/spring from the tube.  Tube looks okay, no excessive wear or anything that would bind/rub.

Buffer is a rifle style, not carbine so no issues there.  Buffer spring is 12.5" relaxed, 39 coils.  If I remove the bolt from the upper and push it against the buffer, it bottoms out in the tube with the gas key hitting the lower.  I've read that rifle springs should be ~44 coils, so even though the length is right the coil count is off...could be dealing with a carbine spring in a rifle tube?

I'm thinking the next step is a new rifle buffer spring?  Unfortunately, I'm pretty busy for the rest of this week and don't have time to hit the range with him.
Link Posted: 8/3/2016 10:09:34 PM EDT
[#17]
I just pulled the spring out of a 20" rifle I have handy. The spring is right at 12 5/8" long relaxed with 42 coils. I'd say take a known spring and buffer with you next time and compare.

Okay. Curiosity got the better of me. I dug out my dead stock Colt Sporter Match HBAR. I've owned this gun since new in '91.

Same thing, 12 5/8" and 42 coils.

I'd say there's a substandard spring in your friend's rifle.
Link Posted: 8/4/2016 6:41:03 AM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 8/4/2016 8:21:50 AM EDT
[#19]
never mind. Suggestion already addressed.
Link Posted: 8/22/2016 4:26:53 PM EDT
[#20]
What did you find out on this OP?
Link Posted: 8/22/2016 10:47:33 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What did you find out on this OP?
View Quote


Haven't had a chance to get back with him yet.  Rain/work.

Hopefully this week I'll find some time.

Link Posted: 10/13/2016 1:41:29 PM EDT
[#22]
Curious if you found the issue.
Page AR-15 » Troubleshooting
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top