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Posted: 7/22/2016 6:37:42 PM EDT
Somehow I got my cleaning rod stuck in the barrel trying to push out a stuck case. I'm totally lost on what I should do.
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[#1]
So the casing is still stuck in the chamber and the rod is still down the barrel? Can you tell if the rod made it into the mouth of the casing? I would think that you should still be able to knock the stuck casing out with a sharp blow to the rod.
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[#2]
No idea if the rod made it to the casing but hitting it won't move the casing. The rod is stuck down the bore too but I can't figure out what it's hung on
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[#4]
Did the round actually go off? If it didn't, if it's a dud, or a squib and the bullet is still in there and you drove a cleaning rod down on the end of the bullet you may have split the end of the rod and jammed it up pretty good.
Steel rod? Aluminum rod? Coated rod? How much of the rod is sticking out of the muzzle end of the barrel? You could get a crescent wrench, adjust it so that it barely slides onto the rod, turn the gun upside down, put the wrench on the rod to that the handle stops the wrench from falling off and then stand on the wrench and grabbing the pistol grip and forend yank upwards on the rifle to try to pull the cleaning rod loose. Mark the rod first, at the muzzle, with a sharpie, so you can measure how far down in the barrel the end of the rod went. Based on your barrel length you should be able to tell if the rod went all the way in or hit a bullet lodged somewhere in the barrel. If the bullet is in the barrel (squib round), or still in the case (dud round), you'll have to use something besides a cleaning rod to get the bullet out. I don't know if a jag screwed into the end of the cleaning rod would be stout enough to push the bullet out using the cleaning rod or not. |
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[#6]
put the rod in a vise, and leave a gap to the barrel end the width of a board .. and pry out the rod with board that's notched wide enough to pass the board on both sides of the rod ........
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[#7]
It was a coated rod and I can tell by where the coating rubbed off that it made it to the casing. I don't know what got the rod hung up but I got it out just by having someone hold it while I pulled on the upper. The round is fired though, I can tell that it got a good solid primer strike. I just need to get a rigid enough rod to knock it out that won't damage my barrel crown. It is a steel case
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[#8]
Squirt some penetrating oil down the barrel and let it soak/work it's way into the chamber and it may help the case release from the chamber walls.
Also, when you get the case out clean the hell out of your chamber. Steel has a reputation for getting the chamber dirty faster than brass and for being worse for sticking to the dirty chamber walls. |
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[#9]
Lubricate and get a solid aluminum rod from hardware store and tap out the case then stop shooting steel in an an ar15, polymer or lacquer they all will stick my brother use to have a store and has seen dozens of ar15 with stuck cases leave the steel cases to the commie rifles.
Snowman357 |
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[#10]
Feel free to shoot steel case, I went through a similar issue as a new AR shooter. Steel is fine.
1. Spray liquid wrench down bore, let sit for few hours 2. Go to hardware store get a bore diameter brass rod 3. Cut rod 1" past muzzle 4. Pound out the case with a mallet The lacquer/poly issue is a complete urban legend. Use the heaviest buffer you can run and get a stronger extractor spring. I've used this exact process on a dozen rifles. Easy peasy. |
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[#11]
I put CLP down around the casing before attempting his last. I went to one hardware store looking for an acceptable rod and couldn't find one. And I'm done with steel casing, it shoots dirty and I can buy brass for almost the same price so why not.
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[#12]
Fair enough, but where might I ask is brass .22c/rd?
Steel is much cheaper in volume and brass seems to cost about 50% more than steel in my experience , which is pretty significant IMHO. I'll take more trigger time for the money personally. Most of the brass I shoot is my reloads which run a little over $3/20 so I just cant stomach the price for factory brass. Steel is great for close up practice, too. There's an interesting study by Lucky Gunner on steel case ammo you might like. |
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[#13]
If you have one, a regular old issue rod is more than stiff enough to beat the case out with.
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[#14]
Use a stuck case puller, available from Brownells
CY6 Greg Sullivan "Sully" SLR15 Rifles TheDefensiveEdge.com (763) 712-0123 |
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[#15]
Is this a 5.56 chamber or something different? Watching for the fix just in case.
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[#16]
Quoted:
Use a stuck case puller, available from Brownells CY6 Greg Sullivan "Sully" SLR15 Rifles TheDefensiveEdge.com (763) 712-0123 View Quote This was posted in feedback just in case someone wants to use it on an AR: Not for AR's I bought this puller for AR's and the collet is to big to go in the star chamber. Other than that, I would probably give it more stars, but when it don't work, I can't. |
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[#17]
Just went through this with my buddies Ploytech AK....it sucks. We ended up melting lead , pouring it down the muzzle into the chamber/casing, then beat it out with a rod and mallet. It worked but was assbackwards as hell. If it was mine I'd have taken it to a gunsmith.I agree more with the break free lube idea.
EDIT: The soft lead cleaned out surprisingly easy, I was not so sure it would. Still, a smith would've been MY choice.I have seen my buddy pull off some crazy shit tho.A little braver than me with his weapons. |
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[#18]
Sorry guys, I totally forgot to update this. I wasn't able to find a suitable rod so I took it to the LGS where they were kind enough to knock it out for me for free.
Quoted:
Just went through this with my buddies Ploytech AK....it sucks. We ended up melting lead , pouring it down the muzzle into the chamber/casing, then beat it out with a rod and mallet. It worked but was assbackwards as hell. If it was mine I'd have taken it to a gunsmith.I agree more with the break free lube idea. EDIT: The soft lead cleaned out surprisingly easy, I was not so sure it would. Still, a smith would've been MY choice.I have seen my buddy pull off some crazy shit tho.A little braver than me with his weapons. View Quote No way would I be comfortable with pouring hot lead down my muzzle. Sounds like a good way to ruin a bbl. |
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[#19]
That's nice of them. I had to pay $40 first time because I was scared to beat it out. Now I just grab the mallet.
I haven't had a stuck case in many many hundreds if not thousands of rounds though. It's usually in overgassed newer guns that haven't worn in the chamber yet and have standard strength extractor springs. I've yet to see a single AR that wouldn't run steel with $40 of extra parts, parts which also make your rifle more reliable with brass. |
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[#20]
Quoted:
Lubricate and get a solid aluminum rod from hardware store and tap out the case then stop shooting steel in an an ar15, polymer or lacquer they all will stick my brother use to have a store and has seen dozens of ar15 with stuck cases leave the steel cases to the commie rifles. Snowman357 View Quote 87% of this gun board doesn't actually shoot and won't believe that steel cases will eventually turn your AR15 into a club at the worst possible time. If you want cheap AR15 ammo, start reloading. |
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[#21]
Quoted:
87% of this gun board doesn't actually shoot and won't believe that steel cases will eventually turn your AR15 into a club at the worst possible time. If you want cheap AR15 ammo, start reloading. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Lubricate and get a solid aluminum rod from hardware store and tap out the case then stop shooting steel in an an ar15, polymer or lacquer they all will stick my brother use to have a store and has seen dozens of ar15 with stuck cases leave the steel cases to the commie rifles. Snowman357 87% of this gun board doesn't actually shoot and won't believe that steel cases will eventually turn your AR15 into a club at the worst possible time. If you want cheap AR15 ammo, start reloading. Can't agree more. |
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[#22]
Have run steel coated wolf ammo through full auto rigs by the cases per events, without problems and not break down cleanings alone the way. Hence the upper bearing areas get a little fresh amount of CLP around every 250 round, and all is good.
The only difference with steel case ammo is that is has a polyurethane coating on the steel cases to keep them from rusting, which means as the cases are cycled in and out of the chamber, small amounts of polyurethane is going to get scrapped off, which turns into a powderized fouling instead. So standard government side wall width chambers (read a touch looser), and just re-introducing small amounts of CLP around every 250 rounds through the carrier exhaust channels into the gas chamber of it (carrier pulled back just enough to get the gas rings forward of the ports so it can be flowed through the gas ports to get to the back carrier sections) and this new migrating CLP is enough to prevent the poly powderized fouling from building up and choking the rifle out (fouling just flushed away). But since we may not be talking a standard military looser side wall chamber, but one that may be on the tighter cross way side, or even the chamber walls not mirror smooth, lack of fresh CLP lube more frequently, and the poly powderized fouling is going to build up to the point to choke the rifle out. Hence the poly powderized does not burnt to the chamber walls, but instead just gets packed to the chamber walls to build up over time is not flushed away via fresh solvent, and since CLP does not dissolve polyurethane, once it gets to that level from not being flushed as it trying to build up isntead (small amounts of CLP on the cases from the action migrating into the chamber each round to flush the powderized fouling away), then you at a point that such fouling this bad has to be chamber brush scrubbed out isntead. So it not the steel case ammo over-all the problem in it self, since I have seen brass case ammo that burns so dirty it can do the same thing if one is not re-lubing the rifle correctly, but the lack of keeping the upper receiver bearing areas lubed during the long shot sessions isntead. |
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[#23]
Quoted:
Feel free to shoot steel case, I went through a similar issue as a new AR shooter. Steel is fine. 1. Spray liquid wrench down bore, let sit for few hours 2. Go to hardware store get a bore diameter brass rod 3. Cut rod 1" past muzzle 4. Pound out the case with a mallet The lacquer/poly issue is a complete urban legend. Use the heaviest buffer you can run and get a stronger extractor spring. I've used this exact process on a dozen rifles. Easy peasy. View Quote It may be an "urban legend" but there are many or us who have experienced it with 1st and 2nd Gen steel. It's good that you haven't had a problem. |
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[#24]
Quoted:
Have run steel coated wolf ammo through full auto rigs by the cases per events, without problems and not break down cleanings alone the way. Hence the upper bearing areas get a little fresh amount of CLP around every 250 round, and all is good. The only difference with steel case ammo is that is has a polyurethane coating on the steel cases to keep them from rusting, which means as the cases are cycled in and out of the chamber, small amounts of polyurethane is going to get scrapped off, which turns into a powderized fouling instead. So standard government side wall width chambers (read a touch looser), and just re-introducing small amounts of CLP around every 250 rounds through the carrier exhaust channels into the gas chamber of it (carrier pulled back just enough to get the gas rings forward of the ports so it can be flowed through the gas ports to get to the back carrier sections) and this new migrating CLP is enough to prevent the poly powderized fouling from building up and choking the rifle out (fouling just flushed away). But since we may not be talking a standard military looser side wall chamber, but one that may be on the tighter cross way side, or even the chamber walls not mirror smooth, lack of fresh CLP lube more frequently, and the poly powderized fouling is going to build up to the point to choke the rifle out. Hence the poly powderized does not burnt to the chamber walls, but instead just gets packed to the chamber walls to build up over time is not flushed away via fresh solvent, and since CLP does not dissolve polyurethane, once it gets to that level from not being flushed as it trying to build up isntead (small amounts of CLP on the cases from the action migrating into the chamber each round to flush the powderized fouling away), then you at a point that such fouling this bad has to be chamber brush scrubbed out isntead. So it not the steel case ammo over-all the problem in it self, since I have seen brass case ammo that burns so dirty it can do the same thing if one is not re-lubing the rifle correctly, but the lack of keeping the upper receiver bearing areas lubed during the long shot sessions isntead. View Quote Yes, dirty brass loads will do it as well. I had some IMI way back that was miserable, and some commercial reloads that were bad as well. Dano, I think you should change your avatar to a bottle of CLP and a chamber cleaning brush just for a couple of days, just for fun. |
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[#25]
Quoted:
It may be an "urban legend" but there are many or us who have experienced it with 1st and 2nd Gen steel. It's good that you haven't had a problem. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Feel free to shoot steel case, I went through a similar issue as a new AR shooter. Steel is fine. 1. Spray liquid wrench down bore, let sit for few hours 2. Go to hardware store get a bore diameter brass rod 3. Cut rod 1" past muzzle 4. Pound out the case with a mallet The lacquer/poly issue is a complete urban legend. Use the heaviest buffer you can run and get a stronger extractor spring. I've used this exact process on a dozen rifles. Easy peasy. It may be an "urban legend" but there are many or us who have experienced it with 1st and 2nd Gen steel. It's good that you haven't had a problem. What people experience is carbon blowback into the chamber because steel doesn't seal to the chamber wall as well as brass does. This creates a sticky substance in the chamber which can cause cases to stick. I didn't say I've never had a stuck case with steel. I've had many. But it wasn't the lacquer. I've seen poly and lacquer cases hit with a blowtorch. It doesn't melt. |
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[#26]
Quoted:
What people experience is carbon blowback into the chamber because steel doesn't seal to the chamber wall as well as brass does. . View Quote Nope, the steel used to make steel case ammo is really soft, and at 55k of working pressure, it seals to the chamber wall just as well as brass case ammo. Fact it, the steel is so soft, it actual more playable than say a older brass surplus ammo cases that may have become brittle instead. So the glitch is the polyurethane coating that is not as slick as polished brass case ammo, and it has a higher grip force to the chamber wall during the extraction instead. Combine this with the powderized poly fouling scrapped off the cases that may be in the chambers as well, and now the more grip to the chamber wall during residual pressure during the extraction has become worse. Lastly, on the cheaper steel case ammo, the cheaper value gun powder used in the loads to keep the price down on it, burns very, very dirty, so it not just the steel case with coating, the powderized poly fouling, but the burnt gun powder fouling as well that is causing problems. Point blank, just about every goverment has used steel case ammo, including the US goverment during times of war, so precaution have been instilled into the operators manuals so such can be run through the rig and not cause problems with the added fouling build up. Fact is, in regards to the M-16, although it was not a steel case problem, but Win re-cycling gun power to use in the loads (burned dirty as hell due to the CC in it), The military instilled the same process that was used for Steel case ammo to solve the problem with that Non-ball ammo, during at what the time the government thought was a gun that did not need to be cleaned as often/lubed as much isntead. Hence not only issuing a cleaning manuels that the troops would would read, cleaning supplies they could use (since a lot of rifles where issued without a cleaning kit), but changing out the solvent use to clean and lube the rig from LSA, to CLP shortly after as well. Cleaning comic book that was issued. https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=7&t=354791 So the problem is not the steel case ammo, but the operators using it not using the correct solvents and cleaning methods to run it in the rigs isntead. Note, over the decade I have been a mod on the site, the same can be even said for opts using brass case ammo as well. Hence had I had my way, every AR sold to the public new or used, would come with USGI cleaning comic book, a spray can of BreakfreeCLP, a bottle of Sweets, and and extra chamber brush taped to the rifle (second one in the cleaning kit in the butt stock or taped to the rifle as well) with a huge note on the rifle to clean and lube it correctly before it's fired even the first time. |
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[#27]
If the issue is powderized poly scraped off in the chamber area then why do people sometimes get stuck cases after just a few rounds before significant buildup could occur? And what would be causing the former issues with lacquered ammo?
I did know that the steel used in cases is relatively soft, so the chamber seal I may concede though I've seen evidence of carbon blowback personally. This is something I've noticed regardless of manufacturer or coating on the case. I still stand by my statement that the coating isn't melting off in the chamber like everyone thinks. That specifically is the urban legend I referenced. Yes steel causes some guns to choke but it's for several reasons that do not include melting coatings. Maybe I have better luck than some because I hit my chamber with a GI brush and solvent after every trip like you suggest. |
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[#28]
Quoted:
If the issue is powderized poly scraped off in the chamber area then why do people sometimes get stuck cases after just a few rounds before significant buildup could occur? And what would be causing the former issues with lacquered ammo? I did know that the steel used in cases is relatively soft, so the chamber seal I may concede though I've seen evidence of carbon blowback personally. This is something I've noticed regardless of manufacturer or coating on the case. I still stand by my statement that the coating isn't melting off in the chamber like everyone thinks. That specifically is the urban legend I referenced. Yes steel causes some guns to choke but it's for several reasons that do not include melting coatings. Maybe I have better luck than some because I hit my chamber with a GI brush and solvent after every trip like you suggest. View Quote If we all did this 99% of these issues would just.go.away. |
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[#30]
Quoted:
If the issue is powderized poly scraped off in the chamber area then why do people sometimes get stuck cases after just a few rounds before significant buildup could occur? And what would be causing the former issues with lacquered ammo? View Quote Chambers produced on the tighter sides (cross wall dimensions), less than mirror smooth chamber wall conditions, then both coupled with the fact that the chambers are left in the storage protective grease state to prevent rusting before the rigs are sold (and the debris that such will collect) fired without cleaning such before hand (the whole chamber brush and CLP by hand thing). So even thought a new rifle may come with an owner manual, and even a cleaning kit that has both a chamber brush and a small bottle for CLP in it, the rig is not first cleaned before being fired to fully remove the storage grease (and the debris that is collected), and most of the time, just some sort of oil (not CLP) may be used to just be sloshed around in the rifle, and it first fired this way instead. Hell here, it a 50/50 chance if its even going to run with brass case ammo if the chamber is mirror smooth and not cross wall reamed on the tighter side to begin with, and the odds drop way down with the poly coated brass case ammo isntead. |
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[#31]
Quoted:
Use a stuck case puller, available from Brownells CY6 Greg Sullivan "Sully" SLR15 Rifles TheDefensiveEdge.com (763) 712-0123 View Quote This it what it says on Brownells site for the puller you posted: Will not fit AR-15 and requires a .700 bolt diameter or larger to work. |
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[#32]
Stop by a local welding shop and ask if they can sell you a length of 7/32" brazing rod (0.21875") or the closest thing they have to it ... wrap the rod with electrical tape every 2"-3" just enough that the rod won't buckle and bend when you whack it. I have yet to see a stuck case that can resist moderate tapping.
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