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Posted: 6/28/2016 9:14:33 PM EDT
I got a new BCM 14.5 midlenght build. Upper, lower and BCG are all BCM. I had an issue where the spent round would not eject after firing and a new live round would get jammed underneath the spent case still in the chamber. At first I thought it was my new hexmags. The issue was happening almost everytime I used those mags, not the pmags. I took the rifle to the range again today and with a hundred rounds fired I had the same issue twice with pmags. Possible the issue today with the pmags was just a random fluke ? Or might there be an issue with the rifle ? I'm hoping it's just those hexmags. And inwas using Wolf Gold and Federal XM855.
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You didn't mention anything about cleaning. The rifle should be good out of the box, but it's always good to give everything a good cleaning to start off with. Pay specific attention to the extractor and the extractor spring.
https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=66&t=543926 Is the extractor ripping up the rims on the brass? How stuck is the brass? Easy to clear with the charging handle or are you having to slam the rifle down? |
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I did give it a good cleaning before shooting it today. I so tried a hexmag again today just to experiment and sure enough i had an extraction failure after the first shot. But with the pmags, only happened twice in about 100 rounds... And it only took a few seconds to clear, wasn't a real issue in that sense.
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Do you have any other ARs, specifically bolts or complete BCGs to try?
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Mix and match the BCG, the Bolt, the buffer assembly, and the lower.
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Is your gun failing to extract or eject, as they are different issues? Is it failing to extract where it is leaving the empty casing in the chamber, or failing to eject where the empty casing is being extracted from the chamber but the bolt carrier isn't going rearward enough to eject the empty casing?
If it is failing to extract the empty casing (leaving the empty casing in the chamber), then how are you able to get the casing out of the chamber? If you can manually cycle the action and remove the empty casing, then you may have a weak extractor tension, bad or dirty extractor, rifle that is unlocking too early, etc. If you manually cycle the action to remove the non-extracted empty casing, and the extractor won't grab it, then is the lip ripped off the empty casing which indicates that you have strong extractor tension, but may have a rifle that is unlocking too early, over pressured issues or possibly soft brass cased ammunition, etc. If you have to run a cleaning rod down the barrel to force the empty casing out, then you have to look for what is holding the casing in the chamber (dirty chamber, lube or fouling, rough chamber, etc). If the empty casing is being extracted from the chamber, but not being ejected, then you possibly have lack of gas pressure (gas leak, soft ammo, etc), something hindering the bolt carrier from traveling all the way rearward, rifle is cycling too slow, friction where the bolt carrier is dragging inside the upper, barrel nut is not aligned properly causing friction on the gas tube/carrier key relationship, lack of lubrication on the 7 bolt lugs & rails of the bolt carrier (Use a quality lubricant like Slip2000 "EWL" Extreme Weapons Lube), dirty or fouled chamber, etc. CY6 Greg Sullivan "Sully" SLR15 Rifles TheDefensiveEdge.com (763) 712-0123 |
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From the pic, the empty casing appears to be partially extracted out of the chamber. Can you manually cycle rounds through the rifle with no issues where the cartridges are extracted and ejected? Any chance you post a pic of the bolt face showing the extractor, and also any chance of getting pics of the empty cartridges that are failing to extract showing possible markings or signs that might help to identify where the problem is at. Does the extractor have an O-ring under it, if it does then remove it to see if there is a difference, if it doesn't then try using the O-ring and see if there is a difference?
CY6 Greg Sullivan "Sully" SLR15 Rifles TheDefensiveEdge.com (763) 712-0123 |
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Thanks. I'm heading off to the range soon. I should have more info and pics if need be later.
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Just got done shooting my rifle again and leaving the range... Fired a few pmags with no issue, and then it happened again. Spent shell partially out of the chamber with new shell underneath it. I take out the mag, rack bolt back and jam is easily cleared. I try a hexmag just tk experiment and sure enough same issue arises on first trigger pull. Although when this happens with a hexmag it takes a little more effort to unjam. I then swap put BCG's with a proven one. I shot pmags and some hexmags with zero issues. I also shot that BCG in a different rifle and ZERO issues. Maybe i should just call Bravo Company? Maybe they can just replace my BCG ? For the amount of money I spent on their rifle i shouldn't have to be spending all this time and effort troubleshooting...
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Does their BCG come with the black o-ring? If so, remove that shit. It seems to be more trouble than it's worth..... My personal experience. The only time I ever had trouble with FTE was with the o-ring on a new BCG. Removed it and didn't have any more FTE. Other issues, but not that one at least.
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Quoted:
Does their BCG come with the black o-ring? If so, remove that shit. It seems to be more trouble than it's worth..... My personal experience. The only time I ever had trouble with FTE was with the o-ring on a new BCG. Removed it and didn't have any more FTE. Other issues, but not that one at least. View Quote Just checked. No O ring... |
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Quoted:
Does their BCG come with the black o-ring? If so, remove that shit. It seems to be more trouble than it's worth..... My personal experience. The only time I ever had trouble with FTE was with the o-ring on a new BCG. Removed it and didn't have any more FTE. Other issues, but not that one at least. View Quote The O ring is there to stiffen up the extractor strength to assist in extraction. An O ring or a stiffer extractor spring would likely fix the OP's problem. |
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I called BCM but it seems they don't do phone calls so I sent them an email. Will see what they say...
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Clean the chamber with a chamber brush and CLP by hand. Once you have the chamber clean and dry, take a good look at the chamber. It should be smooth as a mirror with not reamer chatter/ridge/grooving marks.
Solvents, you use what you want to clean the actual barrel bore to start with (would stay away from hoppes since it leaves a nastly residue behind), but the rest of the rifle gets cleaned and lubed with CLP. When cleaning the B/C, make sure to pull the extractor to clean up it's bolt channel and the grabbing claw of the extractor. With the rifle correctly cleaned and lubed, need you to load a single round in the mag, insert the mag, charge the round, and fire the round with the empty mag still in the well. Did the bolt lock back on the catch, and is the catch in front of the bolt face? Lastly, need a photo of a spent case to see how smooth the chamber is, and a photo of the extractor so I can see if claw section. Hence want to check the bottom ends of the claw, and the side of the rim releif channel under it for edge burs that may need to be removed. Also, do not clean the extractor before you post photo's, since I want to see the amount of brass scrapping flakes that the extractor and bolt channel have in them. Hence want to make sure that you are using the correct solvents to clean and lube the rig to start with (so we can weed out a solvent problem choking the rifle out quickly to start with), what to make sure that the chamber is smooth and rifle full stroking to start with, and to make sure that the problem is not either the extractor having milling burs that need to be removed, or just the B/C getting packed with brass flakes to block the extractor partially open isntead. |
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Quoted:
The O ring is there to stiffen up the extractor strength to assist in extraction. An O ring or a stiffer extractor spring would likely fix the OP's problem. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Does their BCG come with the black o-ring? If so, remove that shit. It seems to be more trouble than it's worth..... My personal experience. The only time I ever had trouble with FTE was with the o-ring on a new BCG. Removed it and didn't have any more FTE. Other issues, but not that one at least. The O ring is there to stiffen up the extractor strength to assist in extraction. An O ring or a stiffer extractor spring would likely fix the OP's problem. OR the o-ring can create too much tension making the extracter harder to open up and grab the casing. It can go both ways. In my case, it was the opposite of what it was intended to do. Maybe an o-ring will be the solution to the OP, since his doesn't come with one. |
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Looking at the dents in the shoulder and mouth area of the casing in the pic above, this looks like the dents occurred when it was a live round that jammed under an empty casing that failed to fully extract (like in your previous photo above), then somehow that dented live round got into the chamber and fired. IMHO when a live round gets a large dent, I would not recommend chambering and firing it, as it could cause issues of fail to extract from being too tight, or something like a catastrophic failure.
Is it possible that you are having a feeding issue, where rounds are getting damaged before they are chambered, and the dented casings are not wanting to extract? If the live rounds are getting dented upon feeding, I would look at the magazines being used, possible tension on magazine catch being too tight or loose, or possible feed ramps. CY6 Greg Sullivan "Sully" SLR15 Rifles TheDefensiveEdge.com (763) 712-0123 |
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Again, need to the see the areas that I showed above in my post on your extractor, bolt, and chamber. Hence you can drop on a #60 O ring (about a dime at any hardware store) around the extractor spring to band aid the problem and that may work, but best to just solve the problem without have to band-aid in the first place isntead
Short of that, just box the rig up, and send it to BCM to check out isntead. |
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Thanks. I'll get some other pics posted as soon as I have a chance to take them.
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Quoted:
Again, need to the see the areas that I showed above in my post on your extractor, bolt, and chamber. Hence you can drop on a #60 O ring (about a dime at any hardware store) around the extractor spring to band aid the problem and that may work, but best to just solve the problem without have to band-aid in the first place isntead Short of that, just box the rig up, and send it to BCM to check out isntead. View Quote I have not had a chance to even open my safe since last week to take pics but do have one little update. After BCM replied to my intial email last Thursday i have heard nothing from them. I emailed them several times and even triedcalling. Is BCM customer service really that bad ?? |
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Heavier buffer tried in fixing FTEs:
We had extraction issues in a cleaned Midlength with clean bolt/o-ringed extractor only 20 rounds into a session with reliable IMI M193. After tapping out a stuck, fully seated empty casing we ran some more rounds through and after looking at the dinged up brass walls and nicked case rim we gave a heavier Buffer a try and that helped all following extractions and stopped the "spinning ejected brass"/dinged cases. The thought was to slow the Bolt down and it worked for us in clearing the spent casings. Our guess was that the recoil impulse was too fast, and the rear portion of the ejection port doing the clearing of the empty off the bolt as well and dinging it up and spinning ejected cases. Tried some of those crazy Ramrodz, .223 bamboo q-tips, to remove the carbon ring at the neck of the chamber, just in case, as well and zero problems the rest of the day. |
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Quick check to see if someone is using a chamber brush with CLP by hand correctly to get the chamber clean (end of chamber cut as well), spin a new 30 cal mop with just a hint of CLP in the chamber with a drill and section of cleaning rod after they done/chamber is dry, and make sure that the mop is staying clean.
As for heaver buffer, if the gas port is way over sized, but most of the time the problem comes back to either not cleaning the chamber correctly, or the chamber is a mess with reamer chatter isntead (groove and ridging, and the chamber walls not mirror smooth isntead). To add, if the chamber head space is too tight,the reloaded case not correctly trimmed, or reamed 223 and you are running 5.56 Nato through it, it will cause short stroking problems. |
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When they replied and you answered their questions, what were the questions and what were your answers?
You state you are running the BCM upper with another BCG and it runs fine. Have you tried the BCM BCG in another upper and experienced problems? Is there noticeable drag when you place the BCG in the upper? A while back, I had bought three or four BCM BCGs and when I was installing them in my uppers, one of them would not slide freely. I had to play musical chairs with the carriers and uppers, so they all slid easily. I bet had I forced the carrier in that original upper, and tried firing that way, I would have experienced malfunctions. I also bet they would have cleared up with some wear, but that is besides the point. Granted, it may just be dirty, but I am wondering why your chamber does not appear to be chromed. Between an unchromed chamber and a tight new BCG, I could see that being the problem. |
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Round count for the above photos since cleaned, and what are you using to lube the upper receiver bearing areas.
With the looks of the chamber and the lube that has migrated to what should be a dry chamber, guessing some type axle grease/not CLP, and 100's of rounds since the last cleaning as well. |
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I was using that Slip EWL 200 on the rifle. Probably shot maybe 200 rounds since I cleaned it. Purchased it brand new last month and maybe has 400 rounds at the most out of it already. Most of the questions they were asking me in the one email from them seemed pretty general and basic. Only question they asked they seemed noteworthy was asking what time of buffer tube I had. Told them I have no idea, but it's whatever comes stock in a BCM lower.
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Also, the upper was covered in some sort of oil/grease when I got it. Maybe you noticed some remnants of it in the picture.
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I didn't think BCM made non chromed barrels/chambers.
OP I'd be a little irritated honestly. It's not like you are dropping a BCM bolt in a shitty upper. This is a factory built rifle and any issues should've been diagnosed and squared away during test firing. I agree with above to try the bolt in a different upper, though the fact you have to is pretty silly to me. I don't expect home builds to be perfect right away, but a factory BCM rifle? Lubed and using 5.56 brass? Ridiculous. |
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I didn't think BCM made non chromed barrels/chambers. OP I'd be a little irritated honestly. It's not like you are dropping a BCM bolt in a shitty upper. This is a factory built rifle and any issues should've been diagnosed and squared away during test firing. I agree with above to try the bolt in a different upper, though the fact you have to is pretty silly to me. I don't expect home builds to be perfect right away, but a factory BCM rifle? Lubed and using 5.56 brass? Ridiculous. View Quote Thanks to one of the mods here in the forums who got in touch with BCM, I finally made contact with them. They mailed me out a new BCG group overnight and will have it tomorrow. They also sent me a pretty paid shipping label to mail back the old BCG. I'm happy now :) |
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I did see that in the other thread, Good on them. Sounded like some email server issue or something.
Glad it's fixed. |
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A little late but I have an update on my rifle.
Last week Bravo Company sent me a new BCG group via overnight delivery. It was a BCG that was test fired and proven to work correctly. I went to the range fired about 70 + rounds out of the rifle with the new BCG with zero issues. I also put the old BCG in a different rifle and as I figured I got a FTE on the first round with one of my hex mags. I was about to conclude my problem resolved but I decided to shoot the rest of my ammo I had with me. I shot another 80 some rounds and I got two failure to extracts, just like I did with the old BCG. Spent round would be half ejected with the live round underneath. I reloaded one of the mags I had the issue with, and it shot fine. I even proceeded to do a mag dump, and again no problem. I did another full cleaning of the rifle, including a full cleaning of the new BCG which I did not do when I received it. Chamber was cleaned fully with Break Free CLP and a chamber brush. I took it to the range last night and fired 100 rounds with zero issues. Once again I thought my issue was over with but I decided to shoot a little more to be sure. Upon shooting an additional 50 rounds I once again got two FTE's. Is it just a coincidence that this issue only seems to come up now once I get a number of rounds down range ? And all the ammo I have shot out of this mid length 14.5 is Wolf Gold .223. And I'm using Slip 2000 ELW as my lubrication |
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Sorry to hear about your troubles. I have a BCM lower with A5 extension and A5-1 buffer (heavier than stock) which is mated to a BCM 16" ELW upper. After cleaning and zeroing, I took it straight to a rifle class and it ran great with 350 rounds of Wolf WPA steel .223. I was really surprised as I didn't expect it to run reliably with steel-cased ammo and even brought some Wolf Gold just in case the WPA didn't work.
It seems to me that you have two options, either return the complete upper for BCM to troubleshoot or diagnose the problem yourself then provide BCM the information. The risk with returning to BCM is that they may not be able to reproduce the problem and end up concluding no trouble found. You didn't mention if you were getting proper cycling, is the bolt locking back on empty mags for the ammo that you're having extraction/ejection issues with? I think that the BCM 14.5" mid-length gas port is sized for 5.56 or full-power ammo. The BCM Comp muzzle device is supposed to increase barrel pressure slightly more than an A2 birdcage and give more reliable cycling. Next, check your lower and confirm your buffer is the proper weight by looking for the "H" mark or you could weigh the buffer. Assuming you have sufficient bolt velocity and the case isn't getting stuck in the chamber, then maybe it's time to check the extractor and ejector tension as well as look for burrs or any extractor marks on the fire case rim. That might give you additional info as to what the problem is. I'm inclined to think that you're not getting enough bolt velocity with the 14.5" mid-length since the new BCG from BCM is still having similar issues. |
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