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Page AR-15 » Troubleshooting
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 11/18/2015 7:42:23 PM EDT
Okay, I am new to all of this - so forgive me here.

I have been watching videos on sighting in, have a laserlyte bore sighter...and have had nothing but trouble and 100 rounds wasted.

Which is it:

1. Take a shot, then hold your rifle on the shot and move the adjustments and put the crosshairs on the bullseye (what I have been told to do)

or

2. Take a shot, put the crosshairs on the bullseye, then move the adjustments and have the crosshairs on the first shot, and then shoot again (have not tried this)

Thanks so much!

Link Posted: 11/18/2015 7:59:19 PM EDT
[#1]
Aim for the bullseye and shoot a group.....not less than three rounds

adjust the scope

shoot another group
Link Posted: 11/18/2015 8:09:58 PM EDT
[#2]
1) Forget the bore sighting device, place it back in the box and put it out of sight. Sounds like you've really got your sights out of whack.
  Are you sighting in a scope or sights? Sounds like you are zeroing a scope. So you are going to first need to get on paper up close, maybe ten yards. Setup a target at ten yards. Ho!d your crosshairs on the bullseye and shoot. Preferably from a bench or laying prone. Up this close you want the point of impact (poi hereafter) to be centered on the vertical and to be about 2" low since thge scope is higher than the muzzle. If your bullet hits to the left side of verticle you move the poi by turning the adjust to the arrow direction "R" marked on the scope. Do the same for elevation but remember you want to be about 2" low at 10 yd. Most scopes have a 1\4 moa adjustment at 100 yds thats basically 1/4" adj at 100 yds or 1\40th if an inch at ten yards. Just get close at 10 yards. Now move to 25 yards and fine tune. Then move to 50 yards and zero it on the bullseye l/r and elevation. Then do some 100 yard shots and you want to be about 1 inch high at 100 yards in my opinion. This way you just hold on target out to about 250 yards and don't overthink elevation.
Link Posted: 11/18/2015 8:36:49 PM EDT
[#3]
this should simplify it for you.

here's some for sighting in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiOpQY2ORo4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwD5zu7yTeI


Bruce
Link Posted: 11/18/2015 8:37:46 PM EDT
[#4]
googl two shot sight in, just shoot at least three. And start this at as close as needed to be on paper. Watch the vid or read one in great detail. This does work good if you can steady your rifle while the crosshairs are moved.
Link Posted: 11/18/2015 9:16:15 PM EDT
[#5]
Thanks guys this is helping - I am just confused -

I am sighting in a scope. The problem is the only place I have to shoot requires you to be out at least 40 yards, sometimes 50 depending on the RO. So I bore sighting at home at about 25 yards, just changed it to 50. Then I go to the range and I am usually low and to the right at 40 -50 yards. I hold my crosshairs on the bullet hole I made and adjust the scope to the bullseye...this is where is goes all wrong. My shots are all over the place..FUBAR. :-(

Should I instead shoot, then position the crosshairs on the bullseye, and then adjust the crosshairs to my bullet hole while holding the rifle still?

I have been doing the opposite. I take a shot, keep my rifle very still with the crosshairs on the bullet hole, and then adjust the crosshairs over to the bullseye.
Link Posted: 11/18/2015 10:14:59 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks guys this is helping - I am just confused -

I am sighting in a scope. The problem is the only place I have to shoot requires you to be out at least 40 yards, sometimes 50 depending on the RO. So I bore sighting at home at about 25 yards, just changed it to 50. Then I go to the range and I am usually low and to the right at 40 -50 yards. I hold my crosshairs on the bullet hole I made and adjust the scope to the bullseye...this is where is goes all wrong. My shots are all over the place..FUBAR. :-(

Should I instead shoot, then position the crosshairs on the bullseye, and then adjust the crosshairs to my bullet hole while holding the rifle still?

I have been doing the opposite. I take a shot, keep my rifle very still with the crosshairs on the bullet hole, and then adjust the crosshairs over to the bullseye.
View Quote


No, shoot a group.  Measure the distance from the bullseye.   Adjust the scope.  Shoot another group.  You'll be chasing holes all day the way your doing it
Link Posted: 11/18/2015 11:13:47 PM EDT
[#7]
shoot a group, next put the rifle in a firm rest, and while you are looking through the scope and dead on the bulls-eye , move the cross hairs to the center of the group. This would zero you at 100, at 25 you would want to move  the crosshairs around 1 inch low depending on scope height to be close at 100. This method works but holding the rifle steady while the adjustments are made is the tricky part. If you have a .22 to practice this procedure may help. Nice thing about this method is it works with questionable scope click values. Either way confirm at desired yardage with a group.
Link Posted: 11/18/2015 11:36:23 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


No, shoot a group.  Measure the distance from the bullseye.   Adjust the scope.  Shoot another group.  You'll be chasing holes all day the way your doing it
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks guys this is helping - I am just confused -

I am sighting in a scope. The problem is the only place I have to shoot requires you to be out at least 40 yards, sometimes 50 depending on the RO. So I bore sighting at home at about 25 yards, just changed it to 50. Then I go to the range and I am usually low and to the right at 40 -50 yards. I hold my crosshairs on the bullet hole I made and adjust the scope to the bullseye...this is where is goes all wrong. My shots are all over the place..FUBAR. :-(

Should I instead shoot, then position the crosshairs on the bullseye, and then adjust the crosshairs to my bullet hole while holding the rifle still?

I have been doing the opposite. I take a shot, keep my rifle very still with the crosshairs on the bullet hole, and then adjust the crosshairs over to the bullseye.


No, shoot a group.  Measure the distance from the bullseye.   Adjust the scope.  Shoot another group.  You'll be chasing holes all day the way your doing it


/
I
This!!!
Link Posted: 11/18/2015 11:52:22 PM EDT
[#9]
Sounds like you're chasing yourself...

Here's a little something my Dad taught me 50 years ago about sighting in that, depending on how your brain works, might help you to visualize what you are doing and works with optics or iron.

Imagine the sight picture as a solid, straight line between your eye and the bullseye with the optic or iron also part of that line. That line doesn't move. It is a reference always fixed in space. When you adjust your sights you are effectively NOT moving the sights. You are moving the rifle.



Link Posted: 11/19/2015 2:44:54 AM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 11/19/2015 10:05:04 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


No, shoot a group.  Measure the distance from the bullseye.   Adjust the scope.  Shoot another group.  You'll be chasing holes all day the way your doing it
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks guys this is helping - I am just confused -

I am sighting in a scope. The problem is the only place I have to shoot requires you to be out at least 40 yards, sometimes 50 depending on the RO. So I bore sighting at home at about 25 yards, just changed it to 50. Then I go to the range and I am usually low and to the right at 40 -50 yards. I hold my crosshairs on the bullet hole I made and adjust the scope to the bullseye...this is where is goes all wrong. My shots are all over the place..FUBAR. :-(

Should I instead shoot, then position the crosshairs on the bullseye, and then adjust the crosshairs to my bullet hole while holding the rifle still?

I have been doing the opposite. I take a shot, keep my rifle very still with the crosshairs on the bullet hole, and then adjust the crosshairs over to the bullseye.


No, shoot a group.  Measure the distance from the bullseye.   Adjust the scope.  Shoot another group.  You'll be chasing holes all day the way your doing it



First let me say  - YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME - the advice you have given is helping me learn so very much! Really raises my spirit!


So, here is the plan. Shoot a grouping, then position the rifle to the bullseye, then while holding the rifle very still, move the crosshairs to the center of my grouping, position the rifle back to the crosshairs and shoot again - I should be pretty close then?. I will be doing this at 50 yards, so how will that affect things when I start to reach out to 100?
Link Posted: 11/19/2015 12:13:12 PM EDT
[#12]
Please remember that AR-15's have approximately 2.6" of difference between bore alignment vs. scope alignment. If you are dead centered at 50 yards you are close to dead on at 300 yards.

If you want your rifle zeroed for 100 or 200 yards you want to be a little low at 50. Always refine your zero at your actual intended range, 50 yards is used to simply get you close.  

Link Posted: 11/19/2015 12:17:12 PM EDT
[#13]
If you do not have a way to guarantee that the rifle will not move once you begin, such as a lead sled or vice, you will be wasting your time.  Once you put the crosshairs where you want them, if you bump the rifle while adjusting the scope, even the slightest amount you will be chasing your shots all day.  Follow Dano's advice.  Fire a group of 3 rounds.  Determine how far and in what direction you need to adjust your scope.  Fire again. Repeat.
Link Posted: 11/19/2015 1:36:10 PM EDT
[#14]
I'm not a fan of bore sighting on a rifle that you can remove the bolt and look down the barrel at the target.  I sight in my rifles by removing the bolt, sit the rifle on something that will keep it steady, look down the barrel, align the barrel with the center of the target and then adjust the sights/ scope so they are aligned with the center of the target.  This usually gets me within4-6in at 50 yards.  I then only adjust the scope after shooting small groups.  Don't try to chase a hole.  Keep shooting at the same spot or another target and adjust the scope.

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



First let me say  - YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME - the advice you have given is helping me learn so very much! Really raises my spirit!


So, here is the plan. Shoot a grouping, then position the rifle to the bullseye, then while holding the rifle very still, move the crosshairs to the center of my grouping, position the rifle back to the crosshairs and shoot again - I should be pretty close then?. I will be doing this at 50 yards, so how will that affect things when I start to reach out to 100?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks guys this is helping - I am just confused -

I am sighting in a scope. The problem is the only place I have to shoot requires you to be out at least 40 yards, sometimes 50 depending on the RO. So I bore sighting at home at about 25 yards, just changed it to 50. Then I go to the range and I am usually low and to the right at 40 -50 yards. I hold my crosshairs on the bullet hole I made and adjust the scope to the bullseye...this is where is goes all wrong. My shots are all over the place..FUBAR. :-(

Should I instead shoot, then position the crosshairs on the bullseye, and then adjust the crosshairs to my bullet hole while holding the rifle still?

I have been doing the opposite. I take a shot, keep my rifle very still with the crosshairs on the bullet hole, and then adjust the crosshairs over to the bullseye.


No, shoot a group.  Measure the distance from the bullseye.   Adjust the scope.  Shoot another group.  You'll be chasing holes all day the way your doing it



First let me say  - YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME - the advice you have given is helping me learn so very much! Really raises my spirit!


So, here is the plan. Shoot a grouping, then position the rifle to the bullseye, then while holding the rifle very still, move the crosshairs to the center of my grouping, position the rifle back to the crosshairs and shoot again - I should be pretty close then?. I will be doing this at 50 yards, so how will that affect things when I start to reach out to 100?

Link Posted: 11/21/2015 12:40:59 AM EDT
[#15]
Just remember, you are trying to match your point of aim and point of impact. Just to reiterate... shoot a group (no less than 5) while aiming at the bullseye. Then with the crosshairs still aimed at the bullseye, and holding the rifle steady, move the crosshairs until they are on top of the center of your group. Then you can fine tune it with actual measurements and adjustments.

Furthermore, remember that "UP" on the turrets will move your impact of the bullet UP, but your crosshairs DOWN. I hope I didn't just confuse you more.

Good luck! Make every shot count and focus on getting tight groups rather than hitting the bullseye!
Link Posted: 11/21/2015 10:36:44 AM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
Just remember, you are trying to match your point of aim and point of impact. Just to reiterate... shoot a group (no less than 5) while aiming at the bullseye. Then with the crosshairs still aimed at the bullseye, and holding the rifle steady, move the crosshairs until they are on top of the center of your group. Then you can fine tune it with actual measurements and adjustments.

Furthermore, remember that "UP" on the turrets will move your impact of the bullet UP, but your crosshairs DOWN. I hope I didn't just confuse you more.

Good luck! Make every shot count and focus on getting tight groups rather than hitting the bullseye!
View Quote


Thank you everyone for the help. I am little confused here: "remember that "UP" on the turrets will move your impact of the bullet UP, but your crosshairs DOWN."

I should just worry about keeping the rifle on held tight on the bullseye, then moving the crosshairs to where they are centered on my group, correct?

I am confused also over all the information in regards to measuring and how MOA works - I have been reading, but is there a good video that can teach me?

Lastly, what do you guys think about a 50 yard zero? I hear its the best of both worlds?

Link Posted: 11/21/2015 2:53:07 PM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 11/21/2015 3:30:06 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History

Thank you everyone for the help. I am little confused here: "remember that "UP" on the turrets will move your impact of the bullet UP, but your crosshairs DOWN."

View Quote



The only reason I mention that is for "fine tuning" your zero. The first step where you simply move your cross hairs to the point of impact will get you in the general area of the bullseye. Once you accomplish that you will want to walk it in making actual measured adjustments.

You have to understand how scopes work. When(if) you're shooting low, you want the point of impact to go UP, so you will need to move the turrets in the UP direction. In reality, when moving the turrets in the UP direction, the crosshair will actually go DOWN forcing you to raise your barrel so the crosshair will be over the bullseye, thus raising the point of impact.

The only reason I mentioned this is because my roommate got miserably confused after he did the first step.

As for the the MOA and distance question. I have always zeroed any scoped rifle at 100 yards, which is perfect for MOA scopes. 1 MOA at 100 yards is 1". You will have to look on your scope and see the click values (how many clicks equal 1 MOA). If you want to move the point of impact to the left 2 inches at 100 yards, then you will need to turn the windage turret to the left 2 MOA. That is about as much as I know on MOA... I use mil scopes.

Link Posted: 11/21/2015 4:02:15 PM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:
I'm not a fan of bore sighting on a rifle that you can remove the bolt and look down the barrel at the target.  I sight in my rifles by removing the bolt, sit the rifle on something that will keep it steady, look down the barrel, align the barrel with the center of the target and then adjust the sights/ scope so they are aligned with the center of the target.  This usually gets me within4-6in at 50 yards.  I then only adjust the scope after shooting small groups.  Don't try to chase a hole.  Keep shooting at the same spot or another target and adjust the scope.

View Quote


+1

This is the method I use.  I remove the bolt, sight through the bore at the center of a small target, and adjust the scope to center the target on the crosshairs.  When they are aligned, you will be VERY close on the target!  

I have used this method for getting back on target after barrel changes in the middle of rifle matches, and got back on target within a couple/three shots on the sighter target.  It's simple and QUICK!  

The secret to using this method is to stabilize the rifle as still as possible, and to keep checking to make sure the rifle doesn't move as you adjust the scope.  You also need to ignore the directional arrows on the scope.  Just adjust until the crosshairs move to the point that you lined up in the center of the rifle's bore.  

I think it is easier to take the upper completely off the lower for using this method on an AR.  

Can't tell you how many shooters I have helped "get on paper" at the range using this method.  Once learned, it will serve you well the rest of your (shooting) life!  You can also be a hero when someone else is having difficulty sighting in.....  
Link Posted: 11/30/2015 12:18:58 AM EDT
[#20]
The method to OP is trying to use is one I've used most of my life. He just has one little thing wrong.

Here is my method. Keep in mind this will get you real close but final zero must be as Dano outlined.



First, get the rifle well secured with the cross hairs on the center, I use a lead sled but some good bags and a steady hand will work too.

Second, fire off three rounds. If the rifle is gtg and it is securely held these should group good. Keep the rifle exactly where it is.

Third, without moving the rifle adjust the scope to center the cross hairs in the center of the group.



Now re-position the rifle lining the cross hairs back on center. Your next shots should be very close to POA.






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