User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 8/29/2015 5:41:23 PM EDT
[#1]
Ok So I just swapped the BCGs between the two and it still jams up. I can get it to jam just by pulling the CH back. It seems like it is jamming more often once I pull the trigger and then pull the CH back, but it doesn't do it every time. It is also occasionally jamming coming back about 1/4 of an inch, with the lugs still towards the front. If I pull it a few more times it unhooks and comes back..
I have no clue what is going on now. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2015 7:20:33 PM EDT
[#2]
Could you maybe get a pic or vid through the ejection port showing the BCG getting stuck, since it appears you can replicate this at home?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2015 7:24:19 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Could you maybe get a pic or vid through the ejection port showing the BCG getting stuck, since it appears you can replicate this at home? Yep. I'll get one up in a little bit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2015 8:12:06 PM EDT
[#4]
Since you have tried a different BCG and still had the same issue, I'd check if the gas tube enters the upper receiver off center. It sounds like your gas key/bold carrier has difficulties engaging with the gas tube.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2015 8:17:20 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since you have tried a different BCG and still had the same issue, I'd check if the gas tube enters the upper receiver off center. It sounds like your gas key/bold carrier has difficulties engaging with the gas tube. It sounds like the BCG is getting stuck almost all the way rearward. If so, there's no way the gas tube is causing that. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2015 8:23:56 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It sounds like the BCG is getting stuck almost all the way rearward. If so, there's no way the gas tube is causing that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Since you have tried a different BCG and still had the same issue, I'd check if the gas tube enters the upper receiver off center. It sounds like your gas key/bold carrier has difficulties engaging with the gas tube. It sounds like the BCG is getting stuck almost all the way rearward. If so, there's no way the gas tube is causing that. Yessir. If it got stuck in the forward position maybe. But an inch from fully rearward the gas tube isn't in play. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2015 10:36:30 PM EDT
[#7]
Not a fix, but try pulling the buffer retainer pin and see if it still does it. Bolts are known to hang up on those when tolerances are out of wack.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/30/2015 10:20:08 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not a fix, but try pulling the buffer retainer pin and see if it still does it. Bolts are known to hang up on those when tolerances are out of wack. This would be first place i looked the way the OP is describing it if the bcg slides freely with it removed from the lower |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/30/2015 10:53:20 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here is where it is locked back at. <a href="http://s28.photobucket.com/user/jwhit37/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150830_084442_zpsvisnk0jp.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/jwhit37/Mobile%20Uploads/20150830_084442_zpsvisnk0jp.jpg</a> <a href="http://s28.photobucket.com/user/jwhit37/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150830_084608_zpssivkljas.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/jwhit37/Mobile%20Uploads/20150830_084608_zpssivkljas.jpg</a> <a href="http://s28.photobucket.com/user/jwhit37/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150830_084619_zpsbmnlfuvg.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/jwhit37/Mobile%20Uploads/20150830_084619_zpsbmnlfuvg.jpg</a> In that last picture where you show the BCG is that as far as it'll go in? I recommend taking your trigger apart and putting it back together. One time I had a trigger where one of the legs were a bit out of place. It doesn't hurt to just take it out and put it back together even if it looks okay and make sure all springs are in correct positions. Edit: Also it's unclear if the same or different BCG are used in either case. Again worth a shot to put the good known BCG into the Noveske upper and seeing if it cycles. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/30/2015 10:56:25 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This would be first place i looked the way the OP is describing it if the bcg slides freely with it removed from the lower Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Not a fix, but try pulling the buffer retainer pin and see if it still does it. Bolts are known to hang up on those when tolerances are out of wack. This would be first place i looked the way the OP is describing it if the bcg slides freely with it removed from the lower Ok so I changed out the trigger. And same issue. I also took the trigger out completely and it's locking it up as well. It's also occasionally binding with the bolt to the front. So it probably is the buffer retaining pin catching it going back and then catching it again going forward. What gets me is why the lower works 100% of the time with other uppers and not this one. Is there even a fix for it or is the upper being possibly out of spec the problem. Edit: the BCG goes all the way in. I guess it slipped out a bit for that pic. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/30/2015 11:03:48 AM EDT
[#12]
I'd call Noveske and ask them if they would like to try and address it. It sounds like you have checked everything. I'd probably want to shit can the upper. I don't think I would ever trust it, and use it only for a range toy.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/30/2015 11:15:20 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd call Noveske and ask them if they would like to try and address it. It sounds like you have checked everything. I'd probably want to shit can the upper. I don't think I would ever trust it, and use it only for a range toy. I just sent them an email. Yea it's not even a fun range toy being that it locks up about every 5 rds. Thanks guys. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/30/2015 11:17:09 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd call Noveske and ask them if they would like to try and address it. It sounds like you have checked everything. I'd probably want to shit can the upper. I don't think I would ever trust it, and use it only for a range toy. This but if this is not an option a jp silent capture spring doesnt require the buffer retaining detente. However that is probably only going to reveal that the BCG is somehow spinning out of place and cause another issue. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/30/2015 11:22:19 AM EDT
[#15]
Here's a stupid thought....have you tried the problematic upper on a different lower? Maybe it's a tolerance stack issue between that specific upper and lower combo.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/30/2015 11:31:21 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's a stupid thought....have you tried the problematic upper on a different lower? Maybe it's a tolerance stack issue between that specific upper and lower combo. That was a thought, I just need to get another lower from a buddy. I'm down to 1 complete lower with 2 uppers. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/30/2015 11:43:44 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok so I changed out the trigger. And same issue. I also took the trigger out completely and it's locking it up as well. It's also occasionally binding with the bolt to the front. So it probably is the buffer retaining pin catching it going back and then catching it again going forward. What gets me is why the lower works 100% of the time with other uppers and not this one. Is there even a fix for it or is the upper being possibly out of spec the problem. Edit: the BCG goes all the way in. I guess it slipped out a bit for that pic. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not a fix, but try pulling the buffer retainer pin and see if it still does it. Bolts are known to hang up on those when tolerances are out of wack. This would be first place i looked the way the OP is describing it if the bcg slides freely with it removed from the lower Ok so I changed out the trigger. And same issue. I also took the trigger out completely and it's locking it up as well. It's also occasionally binding with the bolt to the front. So it probably is the buffer retaining pin catching it going back and then catching it again going forward. What gets me is why the lower works 100% of the time with other uppers and not this one. Is there even a fix for it or is the upper being possibly out of spec the problem. Edit: the BCG goes all the way in. I guess it slipped out a bit for that pic. With the upper and lower seperated does the bcg move freely? If so Look at the bolt carrier for the odd wear . The fastest way to test is pull the buffer retainer pin. I doubt your receiver extension is bent since the other upper works. Something is out of spec with the noveske upper. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/30/2015 11:53:28 AM EDT
[#18]
Like stated find another lower just to see
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/30/2015 11:57:32 AM EDT
[#19]
If you hapen to be north east of Dallas we can find out real fast if you don't have easy access to another lower........
I have a few on hand without buffer retainer pins. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/30/2015 2:27:12 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you hapen to be north east of Dallas we can find out real fast if you don't have easy access to another lower........ I have a few on hand without buffer retainer pins. Thanks for the offer but Im down near Corpus. I have a few buddies with them or Ill try one from work. We have about 100 of em there to pick from. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/30/2015 2:57:05 PM EDT
[#21]
Check the barrel extension for a blown primer. I had one bouncing around in there until it got smashed flat and hid. Played hide and go seek for about 20 mins until I found the bugger.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/30/2015 3:06:13 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Check the barrel extension for a blown primer. I had one bouncing around in there until it got smashed flat and hid. Played hide and go seek for about 20 mins until I found the bugger. Blown primer in barrel extension won't cause the BCG to be stuck in the rear position. OP's issue is a strange one... I am very curious to know what is causing this... |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/30/2015 7:11:23 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's a stupid thought....have you tried the problematic upper on a different lower? Maybe it's a tolerance stack issue between that specific upper and lower combo. My first thought was to try a different upper as well. Eliminate the obvious stuff first, then go into the freaky things. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/30/2015 9:25:16 PM EDT
[#24]
So i just tried it on 2 different lowers and both had the same malfunction. So its definitely the upper being off a little.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/30/2015 10:53:51 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So i just tried it on 2 different lowers and both had the same malfunction. So its definitely the upper being off a little. Is it a factory assembled Noveske upper? From your picture is seems like the upper has a non Noveske FF rail. If the upper is made and assembled by Noveske, let them know and let them fix it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 6:31:45 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So i just tried it on 2 different lowers and both had the same malfunction. So its definitely the upper being off a little. With the upper removed, is the BCG able to move freely along the carrier bore? If not, check for binding inside the area of the receiver just behind the ejection port. When I used to do warranty work for a manufacturer, we would periodically see receivers that had been 'pinched' due to over-tightening of clam shell blocks during the initial assembly. This would bind the BCG, most noticeable while in battery, or when retracted into the extension tube. The issue was exacerbated by a combination of cam pin drag and friction from contact with the hammer.... If this turns out to not be the cause, check the alignment between the carrier bore and extension tube. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 1:41:17 PM EDT
[#27]
Topic Moved
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 4:11:17 PM EDT
[#28]
Buffer tube over the lip of the buffer retainer pin ledges looks weak, and should be able to thread the receiver extension in another wind with only a light facing on the front/bottom of the tube to get the tube end to lightly kiss the center pin of the buffer retaining pin. As for the carrier binding back problem, that one is easy with the new receiver. There is not enough clearance between the top round edge on the hammer contact pad and the bottom of the shrouded carrier. hence with the carrier all the way back, the hammer is being wedged between the bottom of the carrier and the top tail of the trigger. Get Geissele SSA on the phone and see if they want to send you a mod’d hammer, or if they want you to mod the hammer instead. If they want you to mod the hammer , start off by cocking the hammer back as far as you can, and see how much room you have between the top of the disco hook to the back side of the hammer just above the disco sear as the tail of the hammer bottoms out of the tail of the trigger. If there is some room, then you can shorten the tail of the hammer to allow it be over cocked back more without the top of the disco mashing into the back of the hammer. If no joy here with not being able to shorter the hammer tail to allow it to be over cocked some more, then it's the top of the hammers firing contact pad that will need to more rounded/lowered instead. 
Standard L cut hammer, so as you can see, you can take re-round the top of hammers firing pin contact area down a ways to solve the hammer wedging between the top of trigger tail and the bottom of the carrier, and it will not cause problems. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 4:58:31 PM EDT
[#29]
As far as the trigger catching it, It is catching without a trigger even in the lower.
I'm going to take it to work tonight and check it on several other lowers we have there. If it's binding on those, then it has to be the upper. I have a spare stripped upper that I'll swap it out with and see what happens. The factory colt lower that it's on in the pictures has 2-3k rds with 0 issues except for when this upper goes on it. So I don't think the buffer tube is on wrong, and also by looking at the threads, if I were to go another turn with the buffer tube, it would cover the pin entirely. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 5:00:55 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With the upper removed, is the BCG able to move freely along the carrier bore? If not, check for binding inside the area of the receiver just behind the ejection port. When I used to do warranty work for a manufacturer, we would periodically see receivers that had been 'pinched' due to over-tightening of clam shell blocks during the initial assembly. This would bind the BCG, most noticeable while in battery, or when retracted into the extension tube. The issue was exacerbated by a combination of cam pin drag and friction from contact with the hammer.... If this turns out to not be the cause, check the alignment between the carrier bore and extension tube. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So i just tried it on 2 different lowers and both had the same malfunction. So its definitely the upper being off a little. With the upper removed, is the BCG able to move freely along the carrier bore? If not, check for binding inside the area of the receiver just behind the ejection port. When I used to do warranty work for a manufacturer, we would periodically see receivers that had been 'pinched' due to over-tightening of clam shell blocks during the initial assembly. This would bind the BCG, most noticeable while in battery, or when retracted into the extension tube. The issue was exacerbated by a combination of cam pin drag and friction from contact with the hammer.... If this turns out to not be the cause, check the alignment between the carrier bore and extension tube. It moves freely, except all the way to the rear, it feels like there is a slight gripping of the bcg, but it's so little, I don't think that would be the issue. The alignment may be a little off, but how would I check for that or fix it? Other than replacing the upper. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 5:26:56 PM EDT
[#31]
Try swapping charging handles to weed that out, but short of that, does sound like the B/C channel in the upper receiver was not milled in the center of the receiver, and its the carrier itself that is binding in the buffer tube instead.
Hence, should be able to pull the buffer, and take a look at the inside of the tube to see where it binding up in it (will be the nasty wear marks inside the end of the tube on the receiver side). |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/31/2015 5:48:45 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It moves freely, except all the way to the rear, it feels like there is a slight gripping of the bcg, but it's so little, I don't think that would be the issue. The alignment may be a little off, but how would I check for that or fix it? Other than replacing the upper. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So i just tried it on 2 different lowers and both had the same malfunction. So its definitely the upper being off a little. With the upper removed, is the BCG able to move freely along the carrier bore? If not, check for binding inside the area of the receiver just behind the ejection port. When I used to do warranty work for a manufacturer, we would periodically see receivers that had been 'pinched' due to over-tightening of clam shell blocks during the initial assembly. This would bind the BCG, most noticeable while in battery, or when retracted into the extension tube. The issue was exacerbated by a combination of cam pin drag and friction from contact with the hammer.... If this turns out to not be the cause, check the alignment between the carrier bore and extension tube. It moves freely, except all the way to the rear, it feels like there is a slight gripping of the bcg, but it's so little, I don't think that would be the issue. The alignment may be a little off, but how would I check for that or fix it? Other than replacing the upper. First, visually inspect the rear of the upper to ensure that it was not machined off-center, usually one side will have a thicker wall if this is the case. But the receiver lugs themselves can be off-center as well, causing the carrier bore to sit slightly shifted to one side. To check this on an already barreled receiver, I remove the BCG and buffer/spring assembly, place the upper/lower together and use a small mechanics mirror that has been trimmed down, it is inserted into the magwell and a light shined into the ejection port to get a good look along the axis inside. A dental mirror might fit as well, or even a small piece of any mirror which can be held at an angle in either the ejection port or via the magwell. Look for continuity in the relationship between the receiver and lip of the extension tube. If you see any odd shadowing or overlapping where they meet, then I would suspect that is the cause for binding. Also, if the off-centered machining is severe enough, the image will appear to have a slight 'bend' where the tube and receiver meet. ETA: Also, as Dano advised, check for unusual wear around the lip of the tube, as well as excessive surface wear in a particular area inside. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/1/2015 7:38:21 PM EDT
[#33]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/2/2015 3:56:05 AM EDT
[#34]
http://www.ar15.com/content/guides/parts/forwardAssist.html 
Easy enough to drive drive pin #21 out of the upper receiver to replace the entire FA, and if you let Noveske know that the pawl fell the main unit, I'm sure that they will send you an entire new FA to replace the old one. Looking at the Pawl, it looks to still be fine, with it retainer pin cracked/ missing really, but has to make you wonder where the spring and detent is now hiding in the rifle if you have not already found them instead (my guess if you didn't find them, Hiding under the trigger). |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2015 3:15:00 AM EDT
[#35]
Wow. Didn't see that coming. That's a first for me.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/5/2015 8:01:07 PM EDT
[#36]
I've seen it once, didn't think to mention it though since the symptoms were different from the op's. A buddy had his Colt 6940 completely lock up on him with the bolt mostly rearward. After a bit of work we finally got it freed up, and the pawl from the forward assist fell out. It was a new one on me at the time, but I immediately ordered a FA assembly to keep on hand for a spare.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow. Didn't see that coming. That's a first for me. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2015 10:49:02 AM EDT
[#37]
Edited, I Responded in the wrong topic.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
