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Page AR-15 » Troubleshooting
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Posted: 6/27/2015 11:12:06 PM EDT
Hi All,













Looking for some advice here, as it seems to be way over my head. Have a new build I've been shooting. About 100 rounds through it, everything functions great, bolt catches carrier open on last round, mags drop free, etc., but I'm having issues with it shooting "straight". At 25 yards, off the bench, I'm shooting about 6 inches to the right, elevation is within reason. I can get the red dot to zero (albeit close to maxed out), but it basically maxes out the MBus Pro rear sight to get it close. Doesn't matter if the rifle is hot or cold, shoots very similar groups. This is my second AR, my other AR I can easily shoots groups within 1 MOA, and usually no further than 1 MOA off target. This has solid groups (comparable to my other AR), just way off to the side. I'd expect to adjust the sights some as I did with my other AR, but maxing out the rear BUIS seems strange to me, and I have no idea what is going on.








I swapped lowers with my other AR today, and the issue definitely follows the upper (obviously should). I've checked the obvious....loose optic/BUIS etc. I've pulled it apart, looking for any issues with the gas system, barrel nut, etc. to no avail. Maybe I'm missing something?








Its the upper AR in both photos below.








Thanks in advance!








Seth






 
 
 






















 
 
Link Posted: 6/27/2015 11:13:27 PM EDT
[#1]
Newer member so only allows 2000 characters per post.



Lower:

RRA Lower Receiver

RRA NM 2 Stage Trigger

MFT Minamalist Stock

RRA Carbine Buffer/Buffer Spring

Hogue Grip

Standard RRA Bolt Catch

Standard RRA Star Safety Selector

Standard RRA Magazine Catch




Upper:

RRA Upper Receiver

BCM Mod4 CH

SRC Relia-Bolt/Balanced Carrier

BCM KMR Handguard - 13"

BCM Enhanced Light Weight Barrel (5.56, 16" 1:7 Twist)

Phantom 5C2 Comp.

Vortex SPARC 2

Magpul MBus Pro BUIS (Front/Rear)






































 
Link Posted: 6/27/2015 11:34:47 PM EDT
[#2]
The last AR that I had that did that had a tweaked upper. Not sure if this is your problem, what's it like with irons or another sight?
Link Posted: 6/27/2015 11:40:35 PM EDT
[#3]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


The last AR that I had that did that had a tweaked upper. Not sure if this is your problem, what's it like with irons or another sight?
View Quote




 
I didn't try another sight as the only other is my Eotech on my other AR that's zeroed and working well, but with both the red dot and BUIS it shoots the same...




Seth
Link Posted: 6/27/2015 11:45:16 PM EDT
[#4]
You might try removing the barrel and cleaning the face of the receiver and the rear of the barrel shoulder that butts against the receiver.  A tiny piece of "grit" between those surfaces can possibly give you trouble.
Link Posted: 6/28/2015 1:01:13 AM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 6/28/2015 11:56:05 AM EDT
[#6]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


You might try removing the barrel and cleaning the face of the receiver and the rear of the barrel shoulder that butts against the receiver.  A tiny piece of "grit" between those surfaces can possibly give you trouble.
View Quote




 
Went ahead and pulled it all apart again to check, didn't notice anything in particular, but went ahead and cleaned it all out and reassembled anyway. Will shoot it later today.
Link Posted: 6/28/2015 11:57:23 AM EDT
[#7]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Can you measure the distance between the barrel and inside of freefloat tube on both the right and left side, use a set of calipers or something similar, to see if the barrel is centered inside the freefloat tube?



CY6

Greg Sullivan "Sully"

SLR15 Rifles

TheDefensiveEdge.com

(763) 712-0123
View Quote




 
I can check it, but unfortunately the KMR has a pretty decent amount of flex so not really a good way to tell if the barrel is straight.



Link Posted: 6/28/2015 11:59:13 AM EDT
[#8]
One thing I will say is that the barrel is definitely not a tight fit to the RRA upper receiver. Not really loose perse, but definitely goes into the upper easy.
Link Posted: 6/28/2015 12:02:41 PM EDT
[#9]
Sell it somebody you don't like and buy new.  
Link Posted: 6/28/2015 2:04:46 PM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 6/28/2015 5:29:37 PM EDT
[#11]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:





  Went ahead and pulled it all apart again to check, didn't notice anything in particular, but went ahead and cleaned it all out and reassembled anyway. Will shoot it later today.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:

You might try removing the barrel and cleaning the face of the receiver and the rear of the barrel shoulder that butts against the receiver.  A tiny piece of "grit" between those surfaces can possibly give you trouble.


  Went ahead and pulled it all apart again to check, didn't notice anything in particular, but went ahead and cleaned it all out and reassembled anyway. Will shoot it later today.





 
Shot again after pulling the barrel and cleaning...Still issues. Let someone from the range shoot it as well, they had issues too, so I know its not me for sure.




I've got a buddy with a lathe, I'll see if I can pull the barrel and get it to him to see if it is true. If thats true, I guess I'll contact RRA to figure out if I can send the upper receiver back to them.




Seth
Link Posted: 6/28/2015 11:06:45 PM EDT
[#12]
swap barrel nut out just to eliminate the possibility of a flawed nut.
Link Posted: 6/28/2015 11:50:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Take upper . Put in armors block take rubber mallet and wack the front sight gas block housing in the direction you want your group to shift.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 12:05:44 AM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 6/30/2015 8:39:02 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You might try removing the barrel and cleaning the face of the receiver and the rear of the barrel shoulder that butts against the receiver.  A tiny piece of "grit" between those surfaces can possibly give you trouble.
View Quote


Appears you need to true the upper face with a lapping tool.  A few thousandths out there is magnified over the distance to the muzzle, and can have the barrel out of square enough that it is beyond the adjustability of the sights.  I just built an upper for a buddy and as a habit I lap all uppers before I assemble them.  This was the first I saw that truly needed it and would have caused a misallignment had I not lapped it.  If you look at the picture you can see that after initial lapping the area to the left of the pin cutout is untouched, inticating a low zone.  Were this assembled this way the barrel would have been pointing up and to the right a bit; not good.  Once the lapping was complete the surface was perfectly perpendicular to the bore, and the barrel centered perfectly and the sights needed minimal adjustment.  Thisi 1 is the reason I do them all.

Link Posted: 7/1/2015 12:29:41 PM EDT
[#16]
Appears that there is some kind of coating or something on the barrel that is about 4 thousandths off on the back left side of the shoulder that butts up against the receiver. Going to see if that can be removed to eliminate the issue. 0.004 at 1/2" off of the bore is around 5.7" at 25 yards (according to my autocad drawing) so if I can remove this, should resolve the issue. Worst case it will go back to BCM. I'll let you all know what happens with it.



Seth
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 1:13:37 PM EDT
[#17]
When I got my first shortie with a long flash surpressor my grouping at 25 yards was terrible. The black target looked like it was hit with a shot gun. I went ahead and cleaned my bore really good. The patches came out so green it looked like my front lawn!!!! It appeard to be heavily fouled with copper. Anyway got most of the copper out and groups shot tighter to satisfy me.

Try that and see if your bore is heavily fouled as well. It's either than or get another barrel.

Impala
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 7:32:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 9:59:39 PM EDT
[#19]



Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Seth, I thought you built this uppers, and now wondering why you missed the build up on the barrel extension shoulder when you were putting the uppers together?



If you did not assembly the upper, banking that in the future, you will be assembly all your upper yourself instead.
For a decades now, I Just order  kits with all  un-assemble parts, including the B/C's.



Hence I got tired of wasting time by having to pull everything down so I can assembly everything correctly a second time around (read getting an assembled B/C that the gas key is leaking from the top of the carrier just puts me over the edge every time).
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:



Appears that there is some kind of coating or something on the barrel that is about 4 thousandths off on the back left side of the shoulder that butts up against the receiver. Going to see if that can be removed to eliminate the issue. 0.004 at 1/2" off of the bore is around 5.7" at 25 yards (according to my autocad drawing) so if I can remove this, should resolve the issue. Worst case it will go back to BCM. I'll let you all know what happens with it.
Seth




Seth, I thought you built this uppers, and now wondering why you missed the build up on the barrel extension shoulder when you were putting the uppers together?



If you did not assembly the upper, banking that in the future, you will be assembly all your upper yourself instead.
For a decades now, I Just order  kits with all  un-assemble parts, including the B/C's.



Hence I got tired of wasting time by having to pull everything down so I can assembly everything correctly a second time around (read getting an assembled B/C that the gas key is leaking from the top of the carrier just puts me over the edge every time).






 
I did build the upper...whatever the crap is on it, is the same color as the anodizing or whatever is used to color/protect the barrel, and is only 4 thousandths thick, and not directly in one spot, covers a pretty wide range...not something you can really see with your eye...its not like I hooked a run out gauge up to the barrel before I built it...I don't have that kind of equipment, which is why I asked a buddy to help check it out after I started having problems with shooting it.



 





Seth


 
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 10:20:07 PM EDT
[#20]

Video from my friend who was checking this out for me.
       


https://youtu.be/NZ87xqZcHhk

 
Link Posted: 7/1/2015 11:17:31 PM EDT
[#21]
Link Posted: 7/7/2015 9:19:53 PM EDT
[#22]
Figured I'd post an update since I've had a chance to retest after removing the crap on the backside of the flange on the barrel that meets the receiver. Happy to say that it seems as though this has fixed the issue. Didn't get a chance to put a ton of rounds down range, but put 50 rounds through it to confirm zero with both the BUIS and red dot. All seems pretty spot on now, rear BUIS is about 1 click off center. Seems to have fixed the issue. Photo below is a 5 shot group at 100yds, prone unsupported (no bag under handguard or buttstock), with basic remanufactured 55g out of the 1:7 barrel.





Thanks for the help fellas.










 
Link Posted: 7/7/2015 10:03:10 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Figured I'd post an update since I've had a chance to retest after removing the crap on the backside of the flange on the barrel that meets the receiver. Happy to say that it seems as though this has fixed the issue. Didn't get a chance to put a ton of rounds down range, but put 50 rounds through it to confirm zero with both the BUIS and red dot. All seems pretty spot on now, rear BUIS is about 1 click off center. Seems to have fixed the issue. Photo below is a 5 shot group at 100yds, prone unsupported (no bag under handguard or buttstock), with basic remanufactured 55g out of the 1:7 barrel.

Thanks for the help fellas.


<a href="http://s229.photobucket.com/user/RC-Seth/media/Firearm%20Related/B1F1675D-6D35-4A54-AAD3-229059577CB7_zpsy8zfpprf.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee232/RC-Seth/Firearm%20Related/B1F1675D-6D35-4A54-AAD3-229059577CB7_zpsy8zfpprf.jpg</a>
 
View Quote


COOL

Link Posted: 7/8/2015 11:52:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Nice.
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