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Page AR-15 » Troubleshooting
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Posted: 1/25/2015 9:38:49 PM EDT
So, a couple of hours ago I had my first runaway gun. I was shooting my AR15 prone with bipod at 100yds to do a ladder test with some ammo I just loaded. Prior to testing my loads I fired 10 rounds of factory ammo as a benchmark. All shot fine. Next was 10 rounds of ammo I loaded with 50gr Barnes VG, 23.8gr H322, CCI 400 primers, WCC brass. My first and second shots were fine. On my third trigger pull the gun ran away for 3 rounds and the 4th was stuck unfired in the chamber. Scared the piss out of me. After going home and hiding my dog from the soon to be swarming ATF agents, I had to use a mallet to beat the charging handle back to remove the stuck round. My FCG is stock and untampered with and the hammer and disconnector seem to be functioning normally. The firing pin is in one piece. Next, I looked at the ammo. I don't own a cartridge case gauge so I went and borrowed one. There are some definite headspace issues with the ammo I loaded. I must have not had my resizing die set right so I'm going to pull the bullets and resize the cases.. Anyways, the question is can improper headspacing cause a runaway gun? I've never heard of it happening but at this point I'm at a loss to the cause.

Link Posted: 1/25/2015 9:48:15 PM EDT
[#1]
Heck of a nice group!
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 10:02:28 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Heck of a nice group!
View Quote


The entire group is about 1.26 MOA, not half bad in my book. But the runaway group comes out to .186".
If only I could shoot like that all the time!

Link Posted: 1/25/2015 10:07:05 PM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 10:30:30 PM EDT
[#4]
If it is a standard trigger group some common problems can be
A missing disconnector spring.
An incorrectly installed disconnector spring with the big end up instead of down inside the trigger.
A worn disconnector or one that fails a function check.
A broken hammer pin.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 10:32:22 PM EDT
[#5]
That's a good group though...
Link Posted: 1/26/2015 12:08:51 AM EDT
[#6]
were you using new brass or once fired milsurp?
Link Posted: 1/26/2015 12:27:10 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Primer not seated correctly (too high so when the bolt locks up, instead of a light normal dimple from the FP at lock up, it ignites the primer instead),
View Quote

I've pulled all the bullets for a do-over. While the most of the primers seem to be recessed properly I have found 6 that are perfectly flush that I had missed.

Quoted:
disco failing to retain the hammer until trigger release/adjustable trigger not set correctly, or even a blow primer piece under the trigger that does not allow the trigger to be pulled fully to the rear
View Quote

Quoted:
If it is a standard trigger group some common problems can be
A missing disconnector spring.
An incorrectly installed disconnector spring with the big end up instead of down inside the trigger.
A worn disconnector or one that fails a function check.
A broken hammer pin.
View Quote

It seems to be functioning normally but I didn't think about checking the pins and I'll take a closer look for debris so i'll take a second look. Thanks!

Quoted:
were you using new brass or once fired milsurp?
View Quote

Once fired milsurp, Western Cartrige Company. Most marked WCC 13, some of it has the NATO cross. And I had removed the crimp.
Link Posted: 1/26/2015 12:56:52 AM EDT
[#8]
Take some photos of the primers and the inside of your FCG.

Here's what I'd do if it were me.

  1. Go have a beer and start cursing myself

  2. Check if all primers are flush at minimum. Work on really crushing them in there. I shove them in deep. Deep is good for ammo I'm looking for. Reliable duty-ish ammo. Mainly three gun / plinking ammo

  3. Holy crap batman, I have headspace issues. Make sure I get my die setup for the chamber. I have unlimited brass, so I resize my brass heavily. I prefer to be able to run my ammo in any ar then preserve brass life. This is a me tradeoff. I figure yours will be int he middle somewhere.

  4. Pull apart my ar lower, because it's pretty easy, and clean the fcg. Also examine for soft edges or burs or anything weird

  5. Make sure I put my FCG back in properly

  6. Verify I'm not doing something stupid with my load like seating the bullet way too long.

  7. Make a ton of ammo and shoot the piss out of my ar with no problems.





EDIT: function testing the ar lower might be a good idea too. Forgot that one.
EDIT2: And make sure your firing pin is clean and not globbed with lube and carbon. I've only cleaned my ar once, so I dunno how impotant that might be. But it's something you should check.
Link Posted: 1/26/2015 1:14:14 PM EDT
[#9]
Firing pin stuck inside bolt? Bent firing pin binding inside bolt? Thoroughly clean the interior firing pin recess inside the bolt and spray it out with Gun Scrubber or similar chemical. Closely inspect your firing pin tip. If you've ever had a pierced primer it's probably damaged. They usually get a sharp edge making them resemble an ice pick more than a firing pin. Replace the pin if it's damaged or bent.  

Disconector spring installed upside down?

Brass not resized enough combined with high primers? You need a minimum of -.003" headspace clearance for safety when resizing brass for semi-autos. Hornady's Lock-N-Load headspace measurement system is the best value on the market because it measures so many different calibers in one kit. Mo DeFina's and RCBS's are the best if you are willing to pay a premium for each caliber you own.

Link Posted: 1/26/2015 1:56:55 PM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 2/3/2015 12:18:36 PM EDT
[#11]
The fact that the fourth round was jammed in the chamber and was unfired tell me that you have a problem with the way the brass was resized.

You should  be using small base dies to ensure the the brass is completely resized to avoid chambering issues.  I've read plenty of messages from guys who say they are using standard dies to reload to once fired military brass, but the proper way to process brass for use in autoloading guns is small base dies.

Military once fired brass from a unmaintained machine gun can have a bulge down near the rim/base, and without small base dies, the bugle will not be removed during sizing and could cause difficult chambering and contribute to runaways.

Over crushing primers (primers are supposed to be slightly crushed when inserted to prepare them for firing) when inserting them can also lead to premature ignition.

My son is in a machine gunner the Army, and he says the guns that they have here in the States are mostly worn-out (new production all goes to conflict zones) old model guns.  So goes to figure that the once fired brass that is sold for surplus back into the private sector will contain some bulged brass.
Link Posted: 2/3/2015 12:28:04 PM EDT
[#12]
Concur with above post.

If you've pushed your shoulders back too far during sizing; the case is bulged and bigger than your chamber; and you have a disconnector timing issue you have a very nice combination that will give you unwanted and unintentional full-auto fire.
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