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Posted: 12/17/2014 10:15:32 PM EDT
I'm going to try to be as detailed as possible so that hopefully someone with more experience can help me out. I built my first ar and have not been able to get it to function properly yet. First ill give some specs.
Palmetto state lower
Cmmg lower parts kit
Cmmg bolt/ carrier
Yankee hill machine upper
18 inch barrel rifle length gas system
Using 10 and 5 round steel c mags Orange follower

First the rifle wouldn't cycle at all. It wouldn't eject the fired round either. I took it took a local gun store who said the gas block was leaking and replaced it with a troy gas block. Now the rifle fires one round ejects it, takes up the next round fires and ejects it but fails to pick up another round. So I'm left going boom,boom,click then cycling manually then boom, boom, click. The bolt stays open after I fire the last round but it's catching on the carrier not the bolt face. Meaning if I put in a New mag and hit the release it won't take up the round. I'd have to pull the bolt a little further back and release it to take up the round. Any advice would be great.
Link Posted: 12/18/2014 12:00:49 AM EDT
[#1]
Just wanted to add I've tried about 5 different brands of ammo all 62 or 55 grain.
Link Posted: 12/18/2014 1:08:29 AM EDT
[#2]
I'm no expert, but I'd try it with a pmag. I'm guessing your gas system and buffer are fine since it works the first couple times. The magazine raises rounds up from side to side, hitting a different feed ramp each time, so if the magazine is not feeding them correctly it might explain why you can fire two shots each time before it gets off kilter. I wonder if you load three rounds one time, and four the next, if it will fire two before jamming both times or might produce different results? Also, if you put an empty may in and charge it, will this allow you to load a new mag by dropping the bolt release, or still no?
Link Posted: 12/18/2014 1:12:03 AM EDT
[#3]
How competent was the smith that looked at your gas block? What kind of ammo are you using?

Next thing I would do is scrub and clean the chamber really well. Then lube the crap out of the BCG and manually hand cycle the action about 100 times. Then get some factory brass cased 556 rounds and try again. Load the mag with one round only and make sure it locks back every time. Then try two, then three etc.
Link Posted: 12/18/2014 6:33:38 AM EDT
[#4]
I'll echo the gas block , simply because removing and replacing one for another got it cycling. Check correct gas port diameter in both barrel and both gas blocks and alignment -should be around 7mm from shoulder . look for loctite as sometimes the gas blocks come up way oversize ( as much as 0.005" in old money) and this stuff is used as a gap fill -NONE should be anywhere the gas port if relying on srews to fix the gas block .Check for unrestricted gas flow BEFORE fitting tube .

If this is all fine in all cases then mags could be the problem . Use the heavy H&K stainless steel developed for the SA80 , no more bad feeds from that notorious jammer , assuming of course you have the latest ramp profile extension.

Run everything in as your barrel manufacturer recommends.
Link Posted: 12/18/2014 1:45:03 PM EDT
[#5]
I'm fairly confident the new gas block is installed correctly. The gunsmith said he would dimple the barrel 180 degrees from the gas port to align the rear set screw perfectly. I'll have to try and swap mags with a buddy. Maybe I'll borrow his whole lower too. I'll go out on Saturday and try that. I've had the bolt pretty well lubed and checked it in another rifle with 120 rounds cycling flawlessly. Thanks for the input.
Link Posted: 12/18/2014 1:54:16 PM EDT
[#6]
Also as for the bolt catch. After firing the last round the bolt locks open but on the carrier not the bolt face. If I put a New mag in and just release it the bolt will slide right over the round but if I pull it back a little more so the bolt catch is on the bolt face then it will take up the round. I've never needed to use the forward assist yet. It either takes the round in or misses it completely.
Link Posted: 12/19/2014 1:46:30 AM EDT
[#7]
OP,
Is your stock a rifle or carbine stock?  Have you checked your spring and buffer for correct length?  It's a quick check.  
I had a carbine that I had bought the lower with the extension and buffer in place.  It would occasionally act like it was undergassed.   When I pulled the buffer and spring, lo and behold, there was another buffer backwards on the rear of the spring.  That extra "spacer" effect was enough to cause a problem.  Once I removed it, everything was fine.  I don't propose you have the same problem, but point out that springs and buffers can cause what you are describing.
Link Posted: 12/19/2014 1:40:15 PM EDT
[#8]
The rifle has a carbine 6 position tube/buffer/spring from one place though I can't remember the name. Do you have any info on how long the buffer should be? This does sound like it could be my problem because the last 1/4 inch or so when charging is more stiff like I'm squishing the rubber on the buffer to get it to go back
Link Posted: 12/19/2014 8:27:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Carbine springs are 10.5" .  Rifle springs are 12.75".
Your spring should be close to 10.5"

Standard Carbine buffers are 3 1/4 " long and weigh 3.0 oz.
Standard Rifle buffers are 5.9" long and weigh 5.2 oz.

You should always use a carbine spring with a carbine buffer.

When you pull your charging handle all the way back the bolt should retract all the way to just behind the rear of the ejection port. There should not be any binding sensation like you describe.
If it is binding it could be a buffer/spring problem or possibly the charging handle meeting resistance at the end of its path. Check that the charging handle is smooth through its entire range.

If everything above checks out OK, go back over the gas system and make sure the gas block is tight and in place and visually inspect that the gas tube is aligned and centered in the receiver and not off to one side or another.  Then check the gas key on the bolt carrier for being tight  and not leaking.  Use your hex key and make sure the cap nuts on the gas block are tight.  Then put some CLP around the gas key and blow in the tube and see if there are bubbles indicating a leak.

Problems like this are a challenge.  

Good Luck
Link Posted: 12/19/2014 11:12:24 PM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 12/20/2014 1:28:22 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Front face of the bolt should stop 1/8" to 1/4" in front of the back ejection port window, and not retract behind it with a full charging handle pull.

If the bolt face is retracting behind the back of port (just by a hair), then chances are the spent cases will hit the back of the ejection port window, and can cause ejection problems with the spent case kicked back into the action to cause a stove pipe. That hair turn into even more behind the window when the buffer bumper compresses slightly on back of stoke compression stop.  

If the bolt face retracts farther back past the ejection port window (buffer just wrong), then now you are chancing that the back of the carrier key will slam off the back of the lower receiver on the back of the stroke (the part where the tube threads into) and you are going to end up with a cracked receiver instead,
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Carbine springs are 10.5" .  Rifle springs are 12.75".
Your spring should be close to 10.5"

Standard Carbine buffers are 3 1/4 " long and weigh 3.0 oz.
Standard Rifle buffers are 5.9" long and weigh 5.2 oz.

You should always use a carbine spring with a carbine buffer.

When you pull your charging handle all the way back the bolt should retract all the way to just behind the rear of the ejection port. There should not be any binding sensation like you describe.
If it is binding it could be a buffer/spring problem or possibly the charging handle meeting resistance at the end of its path. Check that the charging handle is smooth through its entire range.

If everything above checks out OK, go back over the gas system and make sure the gas block is tight and in place and visually inspect that the gas tube is aligned and centered in the receiver and not off to one side or another.  Then check the gas key on the bolt carrier for being tight  and not leaking.  Use your hex key and make sure the cap nuts on the gas block are tight.  Then put some CLP around the gas key and blow in the tube and see if there are bubbles indicating a leak.

Problems like this are a challenge.  

Good Luck


Front face of the bolt should stop 1/8" to 1/4" in front of the back ejection port window, and not retract behind it with a full charging handle pull.

If the bolt face is retracting behind the back of port (just by a hair), then chances are the spent cases will hit the back of the ejection port window, and can cause ejection problems with the spent case kicked back into the action to cause a stove pipe. That hair turn into even more behind the window when the buffer bumper compresses slightly on back of stoke compression stop.  

If the bolt face retracts farther back past the ejection port window (buffer just wrong), then now you are chancing that the back of the carrier key will slam off the back of the lower receiver on the back of the stroke (the part where the tube threads into) and you are going to end up with a cracked receiver instead,


Dano,
Can you go into more detail?  I just checked the builds on hand and both have the bolt just slightly behind the rear port opening with full retraction of charging handle.  They are built with standard buffers, springs and extension tubes and work fine, both eject to the right and behind . Zero malfunctions and the deflector shows appropriate brass marks each time.  What do you look for when you evaluate this paradox?
Thanks, Rick

OP,
You still have the same issues to deal with so this conversation should not immediately affect your problem solving.  Keep us updated.
R

Link Posted: 12/21/2014 12:08:56 AM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 12/21/2014 4:10:31 AM EDT
[#13]
Thanks Dano,

I ran the checks you suggested and I get it.
I will change my work flow to include BCG/Receiver timing.  I'm pretty sure I will not be grinding down a bunch of receiver extension tubes to fit but found some nice delrin spacers in the interim.
Also , figured out that I can manually position the BCG against the buffer and see how much space is left before it hits the receiver.
Thanks for the tips.
To better builds!

Rick
Link Posted: 12/21/2014 6:58:13 PM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 12/21/2014 7:42:48 PM EDT
[#15]
op i dont know where in ny you are but i dont live far from scranton pa. ive built at least 15 ars and have tons of parts and a bit of experience troubleshooting issues. if you want to bring it here im happy to get it worked out for you and im a member of a private gun club thats 5 min from my house. im me if your interested, im sure i can make it run
Link Posted: 12/26/2014 6:13:08 PM EDT
[#16]
So I took everything back apart and compared it to a friend's almost identical build that works perfectly and his buffer tube was slightly longer and the spring was longer but had only 37 coils mine was shorter and had 40 coils. So I got the same ati buffer/tube/spring package he used and I'm still having the same issue. I'm going to remove the gas block again and check the gas port now.
Link Posted: 12/26/2014 6:14:00 PM EDT
[#17]
I'm all the way upstate also. 3 to 4 hours from Penn.
Link Posted: 12/26/2014 6:57:32 PM EDT
[#18]
Can you try a few rounds using your buddie's buffer, tube and spring installed on your rifle?

That would eliminate those factors so you can concentrate on any magazine or gas control issues.
Link Posted: 12/28/2014 6:39:30 PM EDT
[#19]
I'm really running out of things to check. We're running the same psa lowers with the same ati tube and buffer and spring now. I took the gas block back off and from the look of the build up on the barrel I'd say it was lined up. I measured the gas port and it measured 0.093 I checked the gas block to see if it was leaking at the tube it was a little not much. Still I swapped in a stainless gas tube in place of the black one I was using. Dont think it'll make a difference.
Link Posted: 12/28/2014 7:14:16 PM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 12/29/2014 5:18:35 AM EDT
[#21]
How deep is the bore in your receiver extension? I've had issues with several ati tubes and I'm done with them, like stated above mill work to make them right. I get them elsewhere now and haven't issue since.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 8:40:05 AM EDT
[#22]
Just wanted to say no solution to the issue so far. I've got a rock river a2 kit coming tomorrow.
Link Posted: 1/21/2015 2:52:54 PM EDT
[#23]
Rock river a2 kit is awesome and only 60 with shipping but it didn't help any.
Link Posted: 1/21/2015 5:07:48 PM EDT
[#24]
Link Posted: 1/23/2015 8:57:09 PM EDT
[#25]
I will be taking his rifle with me this weekend and I'm going to swap things back and forth until I find what makes mine work or his stop working. I'm really frustrated with this rifle and just want to be done with it. I've had it looked at by 5 gun stores. 2 New buffer and tube assemblies. New gas block. New gas tube. No unusual wear marks anywhere. No off brand parts. I'm beginning to think it may be an issue with the 18" rifle length 1-8 twist .223 wylde barrel I bought. Possibly incorrectly made? Any advice will be considered and appreciated.
Link Posted: 1/23/2015 8:59:03 PM EDT
[#26]
Also I picked up a 10 round p-mag that did not make any difference.
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