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Page AR-15 » Troubleshooting
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 10/25/2014 11:09:37 PM EDT
Had a lot of fun with this kit but as of late this happens almost every round, obviously trying to contact Ciener would be a lost cause so I'm hoping someone could tell me what I could try. I've cleaned it with break cleaner, Breakfree CLP, Breakfree powder blast, and a .22 brush but it doesnt help.

Link Posted: 10/25/2014 11:42:10 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 10/26/2014 12:09:03 AM EDT
[#2]
I use the black dog machine high cap mags and have also tried the 10 round ciener mag that came with it, both react the same, here is a picture of the feed ramp.

Link Posted: 10/26/2014 4:41:44 PM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 10/28/2014 5:39:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 10/28/2014 6:37:44 PM EDT
[#5]
Bolt face looks cruddy to me (dirty)

Another weak thing is the firing pin . I find many are tight which I believe leads to breakage and hang ups. Tap out the retaining cross pin , slide out the firing pin and clean the pin channel . go at the pin itself with steel wool to smooth out the rough parkerised finish . After reassembly when you push on the rear of the pin the spring action should be smooth both forward and back.

A ceiner can be a stinker but once they are smoothed out they are a joy .

I shy away from oil as it tends to make the dirt and crud stick . I like simple spray silicone , hose it down and let dry . Works well in magazines also.

Clean smooth magazines are a must with conversions
Link Posted: 10/28/2014 8:29:28 PM EDT
[#6]
Did what you said, man was the firing pin filthy! Just put everything back together and it seems it may have fixed the problem, will find out next range trip. Is it by design that it wont eject the round in the chamber unfired if theres another round behind it? If I load the chamber and try to eject the round the next round will try to load but the round stays in the chamber. If I drop the mag and the round in the chamber will eject with no problem. Thinking I may still try a new spring to though.
Link Posted: 10/30/2014 12:42:15 AM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 11/2/2014 3:58:14 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Can't tell if that is lead, or just the face of the bolt not milled correctly, but straight down from the ejector the rail, the side of the bolt face on that side should be rounded like the other side so the rim of the round can sit flush.

So on that note, remove the bolt from the rail, clean the bolt, and if needed, might have to clean up the right hand side of the recesses if not milled correctly.


As for the round staying in the chamber on a manual extract, it's due to the round not seating fully flush in the  bolt recess so the extractor claw can slip onto the rim (again, could be what every the hell is the build up on the face of the bolt recess just below the extractor on the rail).
View Quote


Took a trip the range yesterday, problem still pursued. Today I took out the extractor cleaned the bolt face, what you seen in the other pic was just some crud. Cleaned the extractor and while inspecting it, I realized the extractor seems to be chipped on the tip going over the bolt face. I attached a pic, this explains the extracting issue, but do you think this is also causing my feed issue?
Link Posted: 11/2/2014 5:30:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 11/2/2014 9:31:31 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Three areas I see as a problem child.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Dano523/20141102_143937_zps5c92f836.jpg

First is the extractor, being that as the rim is loading past it for the claw to lock on to the rim, the  case rim needs to be able to push it outwards, and the outer taper from face should be a lot smoother.  I can't tell if the extract tip is broken off, or just a bad edge milling and the tip of the claw bent outwards instead.  Either wall, the extractor should be replaced, and before you install it, make sure that the outer round is smooth so the rim can glide down that edge and push the extractor out to allow the round to lock in place in the bolt recess channel.  


Next is the recesses channel at the FP channel, and it looks like when the FP channel was drilled, it distorted the recess of the bolt so it no longer matches what would be the roundness of the an ammo rim.  Myself, I would lathe the bolt up, and make a light pass on the recess walls to clean up the FP channel bur to remove it/make the face recess channel round again.


On the bottom of the bolt face recess (bottom numb), Although the very bottom of the edge is bevel'd, I would still use a stone and radius the sharp edge from bevel to bolt recess face surface that still exists.  As stated, as the round is being pushed out of the mag, it that edge that the rim has to glide against for the rim to be able to slip up the recess channel and into place (with the extractor slipping over the rim as well.

Short of that, and the other few areas that I have already pointed out to polish, the only other thing that comes to mind would be reduced tension hammer spring if you are using ammo less than mini mag ammo strength, which will insure that the ammo will full cycle the bolt each and every time.
View Quote




I have a pair of dpms 22 uppers, but the principle is the same. when feeding, the rim of the cartridge slides up the boltface and slips under the extractor, it does not force the extractor to open up. I think you have a buildup of bullet lube and lead in the chamber.  take a pair of tiny needlenose pliers, grab a cartridge and carefully insert it into the chamber from the bottom with the rifle split and the bolt out.
Link Posted: 11/2/2014 10:48:17 PM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 11/3/2014 10:38:48 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Could be build up at the last of the chamber cut, but with the 22lr insert type kits, it so easy to just clean the chamber insert out side of the rifle, he would have had to really let cleaning go to allow it to build up to the point (way to easy to just clean the chamber insert out of the barrel with a good Lead cleaner and Brass brush to get the chamber section clean and gleaming).
View Quote



look at the third post, first picture. looks like a buildup of something on the bottom of the chamber just in front of the feedramp, and it looks like smearing up the side of the chamber. mind you my eyes are not as sharp as they were 20 years ago.
Link Posted: 11/3/2014 10:57:16 PM EDT
[#13]
Touch base with Tim at Taccom. I am surprised he hasn't been here yet.
Link Posted: 11/5/2014 10:35:13 PM EDT
[#14]
So I had an idea tonight to try and trouble shoot the problem. I took the extractor out and put the kit back together and put it in my rifle. Without the extractor I was able to load 10 rounds into the chamber with out any feeding issues. I extracted the rounds with my pinky nail with no issue so the chamber wasnt the issue hanging up the rounds with a build up. It was the broken or worn tip on the extractor that was causing the rounds toonot load. At least I hope, going to order an extractor and find out.
Page AR-15 » Troubleshooting
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
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