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Posted: 7/3/2014 4:24:21 PM EDT
[#1]
Did you apply some type of oil or Froglube or other kind of lube on the BCG after you cleaned it?
Did it run well before you cleaned it? What type of malfunction were you getting? Describe what you mean by a jam. Failure to feed. Failure to extract. Double feed |
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Posted: 7/3/2014 4:33:56 PM EDT
[#2]
Thanks for your reply:
Did you apply some type of oil or Froglube or other kind of lube on the BCG after you cleaned it?- No, just a little gun oil/CLP Did it run well before you cleaned it?- Not terribly well. Jams where frequent. I figured it was part of breaking in a new rifle/finding the right ammo. What type of malfunction were you getting? Describe what you mean by a jam.- The most common "jam" occurs when I fire a shot, shell ejects, following round come up but is not seated in star chamber, the bolt comes over the top leaving a dent in the brass and not chambering the round. I hope that helps, sorry I dont really have the terminology or experience to give you a better explanation. Thanks for your help Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you apply some type of oil or Froglube or other kind of lube on the BCG after you cleaned it? Did it run well before you cleaned it? What type of malfunction were you getting? Describe what you mean by a jam. Failure to feed. Failure to extract. Double feed |
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Posted: 7/3/2014 4:35:20 PM EDT
[#3]
Sorry I just saw the part at the bottom:
- Failure to feed, occasional double feed Thanks |
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Posted: 7/3/2014 4:42:03 PM EDT
[#4]
its not holding the last shot back then im thinking the gas block isnt fully aligned.
which would short stroke the bcg and not force the round in all the way. |
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Posted: 7/3/2014 4:45:59 PM EDT
[#5]
to better address your questions:
- The gun was having, for the most part, the same problems before it was cleaned (failure to feed, rare 2x feed, and also rare failure to eject). If anything cleaning improved performance. So I would comfortably rule out any problems attributed to cleaning/lubrication. Thanks Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for your reply: Did you apply some type of oil or Froglube or other kind of lube on the BCG after you cleaned it?- No, just a little gun oil/CLP Did it run well before you cleaned it?- Not terribly well. Jams where frequent. I figured it was part of breaking in a new rifle/finding the right ammo. What type of malfunction were you getting? Describe what you mean by a jam.- The most common "jam" occurs when I fire a shot, shell ejects, following round come up but is not seated in star chamber, the bolt comes over the top leaving a dent in the brass and not chambering the round. I hope that helps, sorry I dont really have the terminology or experience to give you a better explanation. Thanks for your help Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for your reply: Did you apply some type of oil or Froglube or other kind of lube on the BCG after you cleaned it?- No, just a little gun oil/CLP Did it run well before you cleaned it?- Not terribly well. Jams where frequent. I figured it was part of breaking in a new rifle/finding the right ammo. What type of malfunction were you getting? Describe what you mean by a jam.- The most common "jam" occurs when I fire a shot, shell ejects, following round come up but is not seated in star chamber, the bolt comes over the top leaving a dent in the brass and not chambering the round. I hope that helps, sorry I dont really have the terminology or experience to give you a better explanation. Thanks for your help Quoted:
Did you apply some type of oil or Froglube or other kind of lube on the BCG after you cleaned it? Did it run well before you cleaned it? What type of malfunction were you getting? Describe what you mean by a jam. Failure to feed. Failure to extract. Double feed |
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Posted: 7/3/2014 4:49:01 PM EDT
[#6]
OK thanks. I had not thought of that. Appreciate it. I dont have many tools so I think this maybe a job for the gunsmith.... unless its easily done with very basic tools. thanks
Quote HistoryQuoted:
its not holding the last shot back then im thinking the gas block isnt fully aligned. which would short stroke the bcg and not force the round in all the way. |
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Posted: 7/3/2014 5:15:11 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK thanks. I had not thought of that. Appreciate it. I dont have many tools so I think this maybe a job for the gunsmith.... unless its easily done with very basic tools. thanks Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK thanks. I had not thought of that. Appreciate it. I dont have many tools so I think this maybe a job for the gunsmith.... unless its easily done with very basic tools. thanks Quoted:
its not holding the last shot back then im thinking the gas block isnt fully aligned. which would short stroke the bcg and not force the round in all the way. Not super easy unless you haventools. Did you contact the gun manufacturer to get it fixed? |
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Posted: 7/3/2014 5:20:13 PM EDT
[#8]
I've seen some reports of the 10 round PMags having problems of not holding the bolt open after the last round. I have experienced this problem as well. Same ammo worked fine with 30 round PMag.
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Posted: 7/3/2014 5:40:20 PM EDT
[#9]
The BCG should be wet with oil.
A failure to feed could be caused by not enough lubprication, the BCG should be completey wet., not dripping, but coated. The bolt should be coated in oil too. The inside of the buffer tube should have a light coat of oil too. I would say either not enough oil causing too much friction so that the BCG is not coming back all the way ( short stroking ) and therefore not having the full force of the buffer spring behin it dor a gas problem causing not enough force to chamber the round. I am assuming you bought this. What brand is it and did you buy new or used? If you did not oil the BCG when you first shot it, that could be a reason it was not feeding initially and cleaning then lubing with a small amount of oil would have helped it function correctly. But if it is only doing this 1 or 2 rounds per mag, then I would susoect the gas system to be ok and it is a lubrication problem. If the BCG is completely wet with oil, then it probably is not a lubrication issue. Also Check to make sure the buffer pushes back against the spring smoothly all the way back and does not get hung up on something. |
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Posted: 7/3/2014 6:02:43 PM EDT
[#10]
With the gun obviously pointed in a safe direction, if you chamber a round by pulling the charging handle and letting go, does it chamber correctly every time or does it fail to feed or have other malfunctions. You can check this with the mag and ammo that gave you the most problems and the change mags to see if it helps.
If it is having issues when manually cycling the BCG with the charging handle, then it could be the buffer spring or lubrication. If it works perfectly repeatedly doing that, then it may be a gas issue. then check to see that the BCG is lining up with the gas tube correctly. If that looks good, then either you or a smith will need to check the gas port on the barrel and alignment with the FSB. one more thing. Did you shoot steel cased ammo, and then switch to brass? The steel case does not expand and will cause the chamber to get a big carbon deposit, and then the brass expands and sticks into the carbon causing the BCG to lose energy as it grabs the brass out of the fouled chamber and can cause failure to eject, failure to feed, and double feeds. If you bought this used ( maybe previous owner shot steel casings) or shot steel casings, then make sure the chamber is completely cleaned of the carbon. |
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Posted: 7/4/2014 4:24:24 AM EDT
[#11]
Clean it well and use a chamber brush too. Oil it generously. Now load 1 round in a known good mag, fire that one round, repeat up to 10 times. Does the bolt/bcg lock back each time? If not you have a gas leak or blockage.
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Posted: 7/4/2014 4:43:15 PM EDT
[#12]
Thank you all for your input and advice.
- The gun is new, I am original owner. PSA upper/lower with AB arms (American Built) carrier, CMMG bolt (complete) - I HAVE shot steel through it, foolishly, know better than to do so now, gave it a good cleaning afterwards. The same malfunctions occurred before/after I tried to put steel through it, and after the post steel clean. - While shooting/experiencing malfunctions I have applied lubrication to BCG, CLP and Gunslick. After clean I had it lubed w/Gunslick. While the lubrication has at times impeded the malfunctions (often when dripping wet) they have continued to occur. I guess another trip to the range is in order to try the methods suggested above. If the problems persist it looks like a trip to the gunsmith maybe needed to check the gas system. At this point would you rule out problems with the BCG? I have another new BCG on hand (purchased for potential future build on sale, Nickel Boron PSA complete) that I could try out but I am hesitant to do so as I would like to keep it new in the event that the prospective future build does not happen and I will resell/return it. Thanks very much to all for your help. DEG |
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Posted: 7/4/2014 4:55:19 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If not you have a gas leak or blockage. If there was a gas leak, would it show some signs around the gas tube where the leak is occurring? I saw failures like he described but it was on a very dirty firearm, crud and lack of lube was hindering the bolt from going all the way back. Steel cased ammo!!!!! What moron invented that garbage ???? |
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Posted: 7/5/2014 4:59:00 AM EDT
[#14]
There is nothing wrong with shooting steel cased ammo, as long as you clean it well before shooting brass.
Assuming you cleaned the chamber well, I would contact PSA and see what they will do. The only thing left is a gas problem. |
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Posted: 7/5/2014 11:05:49 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If there was a gas leak, would it show some signs around the gas tube where the leak is occurring? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: If not you have a gas leak or blockage. If there was a gas leak, would it show some signs around the gas tube where the leak is occurring? Not necessarily, but it could if it was leaking at the tube/gas block connection. Or it could be a misaligned gas block or one that has a poor seal. It could be bcg's key leaking which should be checked. It also could be the bcg dragging on the hammer causing enough friction to cause the malfunction. I would try the one round in a mag and fire to see if it locks back each time and that's the first real test with good high pressure brass ammo. And the O/P stated something to the effect that the bolt wouldn't hold open which is typically indicative of a gas leak in the system. But first get a chamber brush and scrub it clean and lube it well. Then since the O/P has a spare bcg that would be the next easiest test by switching them out, but the O/P states he really doesn't want to use the new one he has in the box so if he is lucky enough to know someone else with a used bcg maybe he can borrow one for a few shot test. Just because it is a new rifle doesn't mean it cannot have a issue, it happens all the time. |
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Posted: 7/9/2014 11:19:50 AM EDT
[#16]
I am hoping to make it to the range today to try shooting one round per mag and see how that goes- if the bolt will remain open.
I just cleaned and lubed the BCG again and put in a full 30 round mag and cycled it. It did not cycle as smoothly as I had anticipated. Twice the charging handle was difficult to pull, friction, and my hand slipped off. Does this imply a problem with the BCG? Thanks everyone for your input. |
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Posted: 7/9/2014 11:26:57 AM EDT
[#17]
I got a psa bolt carrier about 4 months back that was actually out of spec. I could not force it into any of my uppers. I took the measurements off it and it was oversized. I sent it back to them and they sent me a replacement within two days with a bcg that worked great. Not likely that this is the case, because this was the only time i ever saw it happen, but you might ask someone if they have a bcg you can borrow and see how it works then.
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Posted: 7/9/2014 11:31:53 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am hoping to make it to the range today to try shooting one round per mag and see how that goes- if the bolt will remain open. I just cleaned and lubed the BCG again and put in a full 30 round mag and cycled it. It did not cycle as smoothly as I had anticipated. Twice the charging handle was difficult to pull, friction, and my hand slipped off. Does this imply a problem with the BCG? Thanks everyone for your input. Your rifle should never be difficult to charge. Can you take a few pictures for us of the inside of the upper, The BCG and the Lower. It may seem silly, but i've seen things break in the lower and hang things up as well. Like my post above mentions i do recommend swapping BCGs really quick if you have a buddy with a rifle and see if that fixes everything, |
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Posted: 7/9/2014 12:32:21 PM EDT
[#19]
my buddy just got approved for his suppressor today so he will likely want to hit the range as well... Will try his BCG.
The BCG I have is a CMMG Bolt group w/ an American Built Arms carrier. Anyone used AB arms before? Thanks |
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Posted: 7/9/2014 12:45:45 PM EDT
[#20]
I will put photos up if todays range trip does not identify the problem. Thanks very much for your eagerness to help out! I will let you know how things progress.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your rifle should never be difficult to charge. Can you take a few pictures for us of the inside of the upper, The BCG and the Lower. It may seem silly, but i've seen things break in the lower and hang things up as well. Like my post above mentions i do recommend swapping BCGs really quick if you have a buddy with a rifle and see if that fixes everything, Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I am hoping to make it to the range today to try shooting one round per mag and see how that goes- if the bolt will remain open. I just cleaned and lubed the BCG again and put in a full 30 round mag and cycled it. It did not cycle as smoothly as I had anticipated. Twice the charging handle was difficult to pull, friction, and my hand slipped off. Does this imply a problem with the BCG? Thanks everyone for your input. Your rifle should never be difficult to charge. Can you take a few pictures for us of the inside of the upper, The BCG and the Lower. It may seem silly, but i've seen things break in the lower and hang things up as well. Like my post above mentions i do recommend swapping BCGs really quick if you have a buddy with a rifle and see if that fixes everything, |
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Posted: 7/10/2014 2:07:58 PM EDT
[#21]
What were the results of the BCG swap?
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Posted: 7/10/2014 2:15:50 PM EDT
[#22]
+1. Never heard of that brand carrier before.
Also with it being hard to charge, either the carrier is slightly out of spec, not enough lubrication, or possibly a rough finish inside the buffer tube and not enough lube. I use Mobile 1 Synthetic Grease on my buffer spring which then coats the buffer tube and it smooths out quite a bit. |
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Posted: 7/12/2014 10:18:00 PM EDT
[#23]
Shot today using a new PSA NiB BCG, not one malfunction. Great times shooting long range (with the exception of an unlucky Rattler) in Eastern CO. Original BCG is going back. Thanks to everyone for your help and support.
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Posted: 7/13/2014 7:54:56 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shot today using a new PSA NiB BCG, not one malfunction. Great times shooting long range (with the exception of an unlucky Rattler) in Eastern CO. Original BCG is going back. Thanks to everyone for your help and support. Glad to hear everything worked out for you. For things with the ar always remember that the function of items should be smooth. If any basic functions ever feel difficult, such as charging it or fit, this should always be met with further inspection. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 11:44:17 PM EDT
[#25]
Hello Forum,
An interesting thing has come to light recently and I thought I would share it with the forum. So since replacing the BCG my rifle has been running great. Not one malfunction. At the range yesterday I loaded up the two Thermold 15 round mags I purchased when I first got my rifle. I have not been using them at all recently as I acquired a bunch of PMags. With the new BCG I am currently running the bolt will not close with a thermold mag inserted. The bolt release button is very stiff and wont depress. I found this to be interesting as I had previously been able to use these mags (with plenty of malfunctions) using my original BCG. Any input on this would be great... I thought to mention it because perhaps it could shed some light on the problems with my original BCG. Thanks |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 4:46:39 AM EDT
[#26]
There are a few problems with magazines that can cause this. The most common being that the feed lips have spread and allowed the follower to ride too high, or that the magazine catch slot is machined into the wrong place. If the magazine catch is cut too low on the magazine you can have over insertion issues which do not allow the bolt to move forward.
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Posted: 7/24/2014 11:07:49 PM EDT
[#27]
Anyone got any ideas?
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hello Forum, An interesting thing has come to light recently and I thought I would share it with the forum. So since replacing the BCG my rifle has been running great. Not one malfunction. At the range yesterday I loaded up the two Thermold 15 round mags I purchased when I first got my rifle. I have not been using them at all recently as I acquired a bunch of PMags. With the new BCG I am currently running the bolt will not close with a thermold mag inserted. The bolt release button is very stiff and wont depress. I found this to be interesting as I had previously been able to use these mags (with plenty of malfunctions) using my original BCG. Any input on this would be great... I thought to mention it because perhaps it could shed some light on the problems with my original BCG. Thanks |
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