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Posted: 4/21/2014 11:06:13 AM EDT
So I built/assembled a M16A4 clone.  Del-Ton 1/9 twist 20" barrel and gas tube.  Everything else except for the fire control group is Palmetto State Armory (upper, lower, lower parts kit, BCG, upper parts).









So I took it out the first time this past Friday to fire it.  I sighted it in with some 5.56 62 grain ZGI ammo (or whatever it's called... the Turkish stuff).  The first 30 rounds fired flawlessly.  The ammo was decent and grouped nicely, and within 10-15 rounds the rifles was sighted in perfectly.  I had picked that ammo up from Walmart because it was on clearance.  Fired off the rest of that magazine with no problems.










Then I switched to some 55 grain steel cased Tula.  After maybe 10 rounds or so, my first failure to feed.  Fired a few more, another failure to feed.  Finished that magazine, and loaded up some 55 grain lacquer coated brown bear.  From that point on every 5 rounds or so another failure to feed.  










All the ammo I had brought with me was cheap steel cased, (except for the ZGI) and in my M4gery it fires fine.










So is my problem with the ammo, or something else?


 
Link Posted: 4/21/2014 11:40:01 AM EDT
[#1]
Can you be more descriptive of your failure to feed?  Does the bolt simply fail to pick up a round and leave the chamber empty? Does the bolt ride over the round in the magazine and hang up on the side of the cartridge in the magazine?  Does the round hang up under the feed ramp?  Does the round hang up on sharp edges on the feed ramp?  Does the round hang up inside the barrel extension against the breech face?  Does the round mostly feed, but just fail to chamber completely?

Pics would be good.
Link Posted: 4/21/2014 12:15:07 PM EDT
[#2]


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Can you be more descriptive of your failure to feed?  Does the bolt simply fail to pick up a round and leave the chamber empty? Does the bolt ride over the round in the magazine and hang up on the side of the cartridge in the magazine?  Does the round hang up under the feed ramp?  Does the round hang up on sharp edges on the feed ramp?  Does the round hang up inside the barrel extension against the breech face?  Does the round mostly feed, but just fail to chamber completely?





Pics would be good.
View Quote
It will extract and eject the previously fired round, but the bolt doesn't always pick up the next round.  The bolt rides over the round.  It's not jamming at all.


 



The magazine is fully seated... and the problem is with several different types of magazines.
Link Posted: 4/21/2014 12:35:54 PM EDT
[#3]
It might be short stroking, where the bolt comes back far enough to ejection, but not quite far enough to get behind the next round to let it present and feed.  You can test for that by loading a single round into the magazine, then insert the the mag, chamber and fire.  If the bolt doesn't lock back on the now-empty magazine you're short stroking, and that's a gas issue with the upper.

That's my best, first guess as to your issue, since it's only having problems with Tula and BB - which tend to be loaded less hot than most.

With it only occurring every five rounds or so, it's like it's ALMOST got enough oomph to cycle, and that may ease over time with break-in and better lubing, and perhaps drop from a heavy buffer to a lighter buffer if you're running something like an H or H2 buffer now.
Link Posted: 4/21/2014 12:51:10 PM EDT
[#4]


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



It might be short stroking, where the bolt comes back far enough to ejection, but not quite far enough to get behind the next round to let it present and feed.  You can test for that by loading a single round into the magazine, then insert the the mag, chamber and fire.  If the bolt doesn't lock back on the now-empty magazine you're short stroking, and that's a gas issue with the upper.






That's my best, first guess as to your issue, since it's only having problems with Tula and BB - which tend to be loaded less hot than most.





With it only occurring every five rounds or so, it's like it's ALMOST got enough oomph to cycle, and that may ease over time with break-in and better lubing, and perhaps drop from a heavy buffer to a lighter buffer if you're running something like an H or H2 buffer now.
View Quote
Interesting... their was an instance of the bolt not locking back on an empty magazine.  It happened at least once with a brand new pmag.  But I don't remember if it happened more than once.  I chalked it up to a bad magazine.



Edit... To add, the buttstock kit is an Armalite M-15A2 rifle buttstock kit.  I don't know if the buffer is a heavy buffer or a lighter buffer.  Maybe someone can chime in with an answer to that and if changing it would help.



 





 
Link Posted: 4/21/2014 1:58:32 PM EDT
[#5]
Since I don't use steel cased ammo in any AR's, I'm partial to factory brass cased or my own reloads, which I've been reloading for 30+ yrs.  Tula is well document for being a bit underpowered..if I were you, I'd shoot it or trade it away on some good quality brass factory ammo.  Get into reloading as well...you will soon find out that you can reload your own ammo, and be just as accurate or better, than paying top dollar per rd.  Just my opinion, hope it helps,  
Link Posted: 4/21/2014 3:54:52 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Edit... To add, the buttstock kit is an Armalite M-15A2 rifle buttstock kit.  I don't know if the buffer is a heavy buffer or a lighter buffer.  Maybe someone can chime in with an answer to that and if changing it would help.
View Quote

Rifle buffers should be more or less identical - all the variability comes with the carbine buffers.  See if it's short stroking, and maybe try extra lube until you've got a few hundred rounds through it to break it in.
Link Posted: 4/21/2014 4:46:07 PM EDT
[#7]
I have used Silver Bear 55gr. HP ammo and it runs great.  Wouldn't hesitate to buy more.  Don't know about the brown bear.
Link Posted: 4/21/2014 4:52:47 PM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 4/21/2014 5:49:56 PM EDT
[#9]


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



I have used Silver Bear 55gr. HP ammo and it runs great.  Wouldn't hesitate to buy more.  Don't know about the brown bear.
View Quote
My mid length M4, which I had also taken out that day, shoots steel cased ammo perfectly fine.  But I had read or heard that it could be the source of my problem.  






 










 
Link Posted: 4/24/2014 9:22:36 PM EDT
[#10]
Some rifles don't run underpowered steel cased ammo reliably, others eat everything. I'm gonna bet you have one of the picky ones, i'd save the steel for the m4geries and shoot brass out the a4 clone.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 6:49:24 PM EDT
[#11]
Alright.  So yesterday is the first time I've gotten another chance to take my rifle out and fire it.



I fired a crap ton of different types of ammo through it, using different types of magazines.  By crap ton, I'm talking several hundred rounds.  That's a crap ton to me.  Some steel cased Tula caused my only malfunction.




I fired standing, from a bench, and shooting and moving.  Slow, rapid fire, and mag dumps.  One malfunction.  So I feel pretty certain, steel cased ammo was my problem.




So that night, I go back home and clean my rifles, just like the Marine Corps taught me, and I happen to notice the front sight looked slightly canted.  While resting upside down on the front and rear sights, I can slide a piece of paper under one side of the FSB, but not the other.




So here's my new questions, could the canted front sight have come from an over-torqued barrel, which in turn is causing just enough problem with the gas system to short stroke?




And...




I didn't need excessive windage to achieve a proper zero, if it were you, would you try and fix it, or just leave it be?
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