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mr5627
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Posted: 1/21/2010 4:14:02 PM
When I bought my first AR-10 13 years ago, Armalite stated that a forward assist was just not necessary on the AR-10. Now, of course, all the new rifles from Armalite come with them. The cost to retrofit an upper and a notched bolt carrier is over $500 per gun, and I have two rifles. Who thinks this feature is worth upgrading an older AR-10 with? Is this a solution in search of a problem?

I guess the next thing they will introduce is a piston system like what has become popular for AR-15's, and I can agonize over upgrading to that kind of a system also.

Thanks for your input.
joe-bananas
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Posted: 1/21/2010 4:33:58 PM
I've had an AR10 for more than 10 years now. I've NEVER had a situation where I've said, "Gee, I wish I had a forward assist."

In reality, once you start hammering on it with your palm, they cause more problems than they solve.

Build a man a fire and you'll warm him for the night; set a man on fire and he'll burn for the rest of his life.
freeflow
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Posted: 1/21/2010 4:55:18 PM
[Last Edit: 1/21/2010 4:58:33 PM by freeflow]
Every time I do a brass check....

Have you called them they might just have you send the uppers in...
ATF issued a ruling that states:"Any person who is engaged in the business of camouflaging....
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/rules/atf_ruling2009-1.pdf

www.amrarmament.com
shrikefan
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Posted: 1/21/2010 5:06:40 PM
I'll take your "old" parts off your hands.
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bjwar10
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Posted: 1/21/2010 5:14:18 PM
I won't be upgrading mine...unneeded as far as I'm concerned.
SHIVAN
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Posted: 1/21/2010 5:23:59 PM
If you are the gov't? Very important.

Everyone else? Not very.
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear. The timid presume it is lack of fear that allows the brave to act when the timid do not."
sam1chlt
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Posted: 1/21/2010 6:09:45 PM
I don't know about that my MSAR has a forward assist. As someone stated above it is very useful with doing a round check.
recshootertx
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Posted: 1/21/2010 6:43:24 PM
I never used a forward assist in my entire military career unless asked to. Those were M4's, but the concept is the same. I got my AR 10 with it because I had a choice, but I certainly wouldn't spend that much to "upgrade" any.
akula56
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Posted: 1/21/2010 6:50:57 PM
The forward assist is a nice to have when performing an administrative check of the chamber after loading. You can use it to positively seat the round in the chamber after you let the BCG move forward but you can perform the same function by using the the dished out portion of the BCG to move the BCG forward and ensuring the round is seated in the chamber.
M1Riflenut
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Posted: 1/21/2010 7:18:07 PM
You don't need a forward assist. I believe it has been stated here that Armalite went to this in anticipation of a possible future Govt trial so they would be ready if/when that happens.???

As for the gas piston issue......well that is a sore spot for some. Many folks will tell you that the DI system has worked fine all this time so why fix something that is'nt broken. Those have also been my sentiments for years,until now. I bought a piston system. Yep. And not just one but two. These are .223 kits I'm talking about,not 7.62, although I think we can pretty much count on 7.62 kits coming out soon. Some manufacturer's are already offering rifles and uppers,its just a matter of time before drop in kits will come out. I did'nt buy these conversions because of any DI issues(sort of) but mainly because of "why not"? I was looking forward to less cleaning and less cleaning time as an added benefit. I studied the systems available,settled on one type and bought two of them,one rifle kit and one carbine kit. I converted the rifle,shot it this past weekend and had 400rds down the pipe without one single malfunction,brass all in a nice single spot and not scattered about,and best of all no heat or carbon/powder residue on the action,I mean zero. I had the barrel sizzling hot,so hot that even the front sight tower burnt my finger tips. The BCG and receiver were not even warm,all my lube was still in place and the inside of the action needs no cleaning or relubing. All I had to do was clean out my barrel,about as fast and easy as cleaning a bolt gun. This is what has changed my mind about piston systems. I was hesitant at first because I like the way my rifles look as is and with most piston systems you have to change to a gas block and flip sight. Thats ok on some but not others that have a standard FSB. The kit I got does not change your current FSB/gas block setup,you run what you have. Handguard fits are selective as with any piston setup but I was able to also keep my stock handguards. The company says that 7.62 systems are forthcoming but no dates,and then if they do make them who's rifle will it be for? 7.62 rifles are not all interchangable like AR15s are. I'm hoping they make kits for Aramlite AR10's first because if they do I'll be buying at least one to test out and if it works ok I might convert all 3 of them.

This rifle is my new range gun,blaster,plinker,loaner etc. The one that will get all the cheap crap ammo,good ammo,handload tester,abused,cleaned once a year type gun. Its a bone stock Rock River A2 with the exception of the Hogue grip and the Osprey piston kit which sits under the stock handguards. This would be a killer kit if they made it for AR10's.

SHIVAN
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Posted: 1/21/2010 7:52:27 PM

Originally Posted By sam1chlt:
I don't know about that my MSAR has a forward assist. As someone stated above it is very useful with doing a round check.

Maybe on the MSAR it is. For the last 5 years I have silently chambered a round using my thumb while hunting using an AR-10.
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear. The timid presume it is lack of fear that allows the brave to act when the timid do not."
joe-bananas
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Posted: 1/21/2010 8:24:28 PM
Chamber checking is not really the best way to ensure you have a round in the chamber.

After taking a Magpul Dynamics class, I'm sold on the following method:

- Look at magazine, notice which side the cartridge is on.
- Insert magazine into magazine well, pull back to make sure it is seated.
- Chamber a round.
- Check safety
- Remove magazine and check to see the next round is on the opposite side (indicating a round has been chambered)
- Replace magazine smartly, pull to be sure it is seated properly.

Your good to go.
Build a man a fire and you'll warm him for the night; set a man on fire and he'll burn for the rest of his life.
Halfcocked
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Posted: 1/21/2010 8:33:03 PM
[Last Edit: 1/22/2010 6:51:38 AM by Halfcocked]
In a pinch, with the right type of button, it CAN be used to open a non-twist off bottle.
"Shooting an AR-10 is kind of like driving a vintage "muscle car", you don't necessarily need all that power, but it sure is fun to have and drive."
freeflow
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Posted: 1/21/2010 9:05:31 PM
Originally Posted By joe-bananas:
Chamber checking is not really the best way to ensure you have a round in the chamber.

After taking a Magpul Dynamics class, I'm sold on the following method:

- Look at magazine, notice which side the cartridge is on.
- Insert magazine into magazine well, pull back to make sure it is seated.
- Chamber a round.
- Check safety
- Remove magazine and check to see the next round is on the opposite side (indicating a round has been chambered)
- Replace magazine smartly, pull to be sure it is seated properly.

Your good to go.


Well magpul has a outstanding porgram hands down. But the Corps make the best shooter in the world with a untold number of dead to prove it. And when rounds are going down range ( for real) will you notice what side the brass is on. It' faster look for brass. This is to make 100% sure you are ready before it' goes down.
ATF issued a ruling that states:"Any person who is engaged in the business of camouflaging....
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/rules/atf_ruling2009-1.pdf

www.amrarmament.com
SHIVAN
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Posted: 1/21/2010 9:45:51 PM
[Last Edit: 1/21/2010 9:46:04 PM by SHIVAN]

Originally Posted By freeflow:
And when rounds are going down range ( for real) will you notice what side the brass is on. It' faster look for brass. This is to make 100% sure you are ready before it' goes down.

Yep I agree with you 100%, and on the AR-10, you STILL don't need a forward assist to press check it. Sorry.
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear. The timid presume it is lack of fear that allows the brave to act when the timid do not."
freeflow
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Posted: 1/21/2010 10:03:46 PM
Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By freeflow:
And when rounds are going down range ( for real) will you notice what side the brass is on. It' faster look for brass. This is to make 100% sure you are ready before it' goes down.

Yep I agree with you 100%, and on the AR-10, you STILL don't need a forward assist to press check it. Sorry.


True... but the topic reads AR-10 Forward Assist - How important is this feature?

Not if it is needed.
ATF issued a ruling that states:"Any person who is engaged in the business of camouflaging....
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/rules/atf_ruling2009-1.pdf

www.amrarmament.com
joe-bananas
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Posted: 1/21/2010 10:41:45 PM
I go back to my experience.

I've had mine 10 years. Humped it on my back at -20 degrees for a day while running rivers looking for wolves on my snowmachine.

Carried it in pouring rain that turned to ice.

Shot it off an on over an entire summer and never cleaned it (gasp!). Still never needed an FA.

Not going to get one now. I like the slick side, too.

Not worth it to but another upper with FA kit, plus a BC.
Build a man a fire and you'll warm him for the night; set a man on fire and he'll burn for the rest of his life.
SHIVAN
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Posted: 1/21/2010 11:19:53 PM
[Last Edit: 1/21/2010 11:22:00 PM by SHIVAN]

Originally Posted By freeflow:
Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By freeflow:
And when rounds are going down range ( for real) will you notice what side the brass is on. It' faster look for brass. This is to make 100% sure you are ready before it' goes down.

Yep I agree with you 100%, and on the AR-10, you STILL don't need a forward assist to press check it. Sorry.


True... but the topic reads AR-10 Forward Assist - How important is this feature?

Not if it is needed.

...might want to read what you just wrote again. If it's not needed, then it probably isn't very important....

Some in the gov't like it due to S.P.O.R.T.S., so ArmaLite added it to compete.

Then people tell others it's "important" for press checking, yet it's not needed to press check on the AR-10.

Yet others tell us about "silently chambering" a round while hunting, and again it's completely unnecessary for that task either.

Maybe nice to have, but not needed on this particular platform, therefore not important.
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear. The timid presume it is lack of fear that allows the brave to act when the timid do not."
LoneWolfUSMC
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Posted: 1/21/2010 11:37:47 PM
Is it important to me on an AR10? Not really.

Is it important to me on my M4 or any of my "social" rifles? You bet your ass
it is. I have used it numerous times on the M16A2 and my M4 in both adverse conditions and at that final staging point before you approach the objective. I use it every time I do an admin load and I use it every
time I rapidly grab my rifle from the trunk.

As a previous poster stated, when the shit hits the fan are you going to bet your life
on which side of the mag the round is on? I know I am not going to.

Now I know all you slickside proponents are going to say that you can push the bold carrier closed with your thumb. True, but if you just got done laying a couple mags through it, reload and want to chamber check before you leave cover, that bolt carrier is not something I want to touch with bare skin. Yes I wear gloves most of the time, but there have been hot summer days where I grabbed the rifle without donning my gloves.

If you have to ask if you need one, then you more than likely don't have the occupation or training where it would be necessary. However I don't feel it is a disadvantage.

My AR10 doesn't have one because I bought the upper before they were standard. If I could choose one without extra cost I would get one. My AR10 is a precision rifle, and I am not likely to get the barrel glowing in my current occupation.
freeflow
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Posted: 1/22/2010 7:49:33 AM
Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
If you are the gov't? Very important.

Everyone else? Not very.


Well it looks like someone needs to edit there post.... I'm just saying if you were never trained how to do a C/C it might not be a big deal. And with this big ar boom (thanks to the perz) we have a crap load more...

But I still see it my way.



ATF issued a ruling that states:"Any person who is engaged in the business of camouflaging....
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/rules/atf_ruling2009-1.pdf

www.amrarmament.com
freeflow
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Posted: 1/22/2010 8:09:51 AM
Originally Posted By joe-bananas:
I go back to my experience.

I've had mine 10 years. Humped it on my back at -20 degrees for a day while running rivers looking for wolves on my snowmachine.

Carried it in pouring rain that turned to ice.

Shot it off an on over an entire summer and never cleaned it (gasp!). Still never needed an FA.

Not going to get one now. I like the slick side, too.

Not worth it to but another upper with FA kit, plus a BC.


I see your point.... Not everyone is willing to make a 500.00 upgrade to a platform that shoots great.

But back to your magpul training; I have 5.00 bucks saying if to put Travis on a KD coures at 200 or 300 yard line rapped fire in the ready he is going to do a C/C. That is any Marine for that matter.



ATF issued a ruling that states:"Any person who is engaged in the business of camouflaging....
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/rules/atf_ruling2009-1.pdf

www.amrarmament.com
gigaphun
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Posted: 1/22/2010 8:13:52 AM
Reguardless of what every one else say, The forward assist is a really nice item to have weather your a season pro or an amature. So get it and move on.
shrikefan
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Posted: 1/22/2010 9:00:28 AM
Originally Posted By freeflow:
Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By freeflow:
And when rounds are going down range ( for real) will you notice what side the brass is on. It' faster look for brass. This is to make 100% sure you are ready before it' goes down.

Yep I agree with you 100%, and on the AR-10, you STILL don't need a forward assist to press check it. Sorry.


True... but the topic reads AR-10 Forward Assist - How important is this feature?

Not if it is needed.


It was important to Armalite to not lose sales to other manufacturers who offered a FA (of sorts). The potential .mil contract may/may not have merit behind theri reasoning. Only time will tell. I am sure they did not want to lose any more sales until any potential future contracts came up. YMMV

So yes, it was important to Armalite. But my opinion is it was more from a sales standpoint of giving potential customers what they wanted with little if any downside. Again YMMV.
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lund0529
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Posted: 1/22/2010 9:46:38 AM
When I FIRST started looking at a .308 AR-platform, I felt it was a negative that Armalite didn't have the FA like some others did. Whether or not it was needed, the perception of less features becomes important from a marketing point of view. Not having it probably cost them customers (civilian and gov't).

I went through several parts changes and had an upper without the FA and now one with the FA. Until recently, my BCG didn't have the serrations to use it anyway, but I didn't miss it.

It's one of those things that I'll be glad to have if I ever need it, and maybe never will. If the damn thing ever gives me trouble though, I'm going to pull the FA kit and cap off the hole.
mr5627
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Posted: 1/22/2010 11:39:02 AM
Thanks for everyone's input. I have a carbine and an AR-10-T, and given the purpose for each rifle, am tending toward a forward assist for the carbine.
SHIVAN
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Posted: 1/22/2010 1:38:59 PM
[Last Edit: 1/22/2010 1:57:10 PM by SHIVAN]

Originally Posted By freeflow:
Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
If you are the gov't? Very important.

Everyone else? Not very.


Well it looks like someone needs to edit there post.... I'm just saying if you were never trained how to do a C/C it might not be a big deal. And with this big ar boom (thanks to the perz) we have a crap load more...

But I still see it my way.




Not in the least. I was unaware we were discussing contract procurement for a government entity. Are we? I was also unaware that the ONLY way to do something was the way the Marines indoctrinated you?

Oddly enough, having been taught by Marines in the private sector in tactics and weapon manipulations, tapping the forward assist is absent from their modern day training regimens.
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear. The timid presume it is lack of fear that allows the brave to act when the timid do not."
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