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Posted: 3/28/2017 9:30:57 AM EDT
[#1]
I've built 4 ARs, first 2 i used gauges, second 2, I did not. No issues.
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Posted: 3/28/2017 10:41:56 AM EDT
[#2]
They will headspace correctly 95% of the time. Do you feel lucky today? Personally, I would never fire a newly built rifle of any type without checking the headspace first
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Posted: 3/28/2017 11:11:30 AM EDT
[#3]
Very first 5.56 chambered barrel I ever had to check the head space on just a couple of weeks ago failed my 5.56 Manson "GO" gauge with an LMT Enhanced Bolt and A Colt bolt.
The barrel was from Ballistic Advantage and I'm still waiting on a new one. First barrel I have ever checked the head space on, what kind of luck is that? 
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Posted: 3/28/2017 1:08:07 PM EDT
[#4]
Finding those gauges in stock is tough
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Posted: 3/28/2017 2:02:49 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They will headspace correctly 95% of the time. Do you feel lucky today? Personally, I would never fire a newly built rifle of any type without checking the headspace first |
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Posted: 3/28/2017 4:15:53 PM EDT
[#6]
Why can't I take a factory round, put it into the bolt out of the BCG and no firing pin, insert it into the barrel, and turn the bolt in the barrel? It spins and locks it's good no? My barrel is a Faxon and the BCG is a Faxon.
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Posted: 3/28/2017 4:29:25 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why can't I take a factory round, put it into the bolt out of the BCG and no firing pin, insert it into the barrel, and turn the bolt in the barrel? It spins and locks it's good no? |
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Posted: 3/28/2017 5:15:58 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How is that going to tell you if you have too much headspace? |
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Posted: 3/29/2017 9:12:18 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why can't I take a factory round, put it into the bolt out of the BCG and no firing pin, insert it into the barrel, and turn the bolt in the barrel? It spins and locks it's good no? My barrel is a Faxon and the BCG is a Faxon. While I know, assuming all Q/C checks are good (which we're pretty dang good!), the allowable tolerances for the bolt and barrel from us will be in the "go" range for headspace, one should ALWAYS check headspace unless it has been checked by the OEM or another party specifically to your combination, not just individually on the parts. Its a 60,000 PSI explosion. There is no reason in our minds to sacrifice peace of mind. |
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Posted: 3/29/2017 9:56:34 AM EDT
[#10]
THIS! ^^^^
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Posted: 3/29/2017 11:13:22 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Finding those gauges in stock is tough An option on the gauges is to get a field gauge. If I understand correctly, if the rifle checks okay with the field gauge, it is at least safe to fire, although might be at the edge of the allowable tolerance. |
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Posted: 3/29/2017 2:09:48 PM EDT
[#12]
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To little. What a lot of folks seem to forget or just not take into account is that the difference between go and no-go is about 4 thousandths of an inch or roughly the thickness of a human hair. There is only one precise way of measuring go and no-go and that is with a set of gauges. |
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Posted: 4/1/2017 9:35:50 AM EDT
[#13]
Get the Colt Field Gauge II (Maximum Headspace) from Brownells.
http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&pw=55963&ctc=j0zaxdl74300zk8a00y51&mi=10077&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brownells.com%2Fgunsmith-tools-supplies%2Fmeasuring-tools%2Fheadspace-gauges%2F5-56mm-maximum-headspace-gauge-prod6646.aspx Just remove the extractor from your bolt and reassemble the BCG. Insert the gauge into the chamber and put the BCG in. Use slight pressure on the back of the BCG to overcome the ejector and the back of the BCG should not close flush with the back of the upper. You can remove the ejector if you want (or mill a notch in the gauge), but I've found it isn't necessary. |
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Posted: 4/1/2017 8:28:11 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What I've had my eye out for is a set that has a cut out for the bolt ejector so you don't have to disassemble the bolt to check heads space. 
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Posted: 4/2/2017 4:02:33 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To little. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How is that going to tell you if you have too much headspace? A quick "peace of mind" without gages is to use known good ammunition (fairly close to a GO gage), and put a piece of cellophane tape on the base. That should add ~0.003" to the cartridge headspace, approximating a NO GO gage. Strip the bolt, drop in your ersatz go/no go gages, and try to lock the bolt on both. If it locks on a plain cartridge and does not lock on the case with cellophane, you should be good to go. But then, real gages are precision tools. Those little pieces of metal were made good to half a ten-thousandth and are precision standards. Three bucks of machine work and 22 bucks of precision.... To answer the original question, a Wilde chamber is the loose NATO chamber with a tighter match like throat. It is a good combination, combining the looser, less important chamber, with the tighter more critical to accuracy, throat. This is a good combination that allows a shooter to shoot any 223/5.56 to its best accuracy potential. There is a lot of Google-stuff on the wilde chamber. |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 4:56:40 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From what I've heard, only the U.S. Military Armorers set has the rebated rim, the only set I've ever seen for sale was over $300.00 IIRC. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What I've had my eye out for is a set that has a cut out for the bolt ejector so you don't have to disassemble the bolt to check heads space. |
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Posted: 4/2/2017 4:58:09 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Get the Colt Field Gauge II (Maximum Headspace) from Brownells. http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&pw=55963&ctc=j116595qui00zk8a00y51&mi=10077&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brownells.com%2Fgunsmith-tools-supplies%2Fmeasuring-tools%2Fheadspace-gauges%2F5-56mm-maximum-headspace-gauge-prod6646.aspx Just remove the extractor from your bolt and reassemble the BCG. Insert the gauge into the chamber and put the BCG in. Use slight pressure on the back of the BCG to overcome the ejector and the back of the BCG should not close flush with the back of the upper. You can remove the ejector if you want (or mill a notch in the gauge), but I've found it isn't necessary. |
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Posted: 4/3/2017 5:36:53 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:ETA: The barrel is a .223 Wylde, I had never heard of the Wylde chamber until I bought this, 
This headspacing debate is as old as the forum itself, and probably as old as the 9mm vs. 45 debate. There's really nothing more I can contribute, except to recommend you do a little more fact searching and form your own opinion on it. I can, however, suggest you add "fire forming" in respect to wildcat cartridges to your research repertoire, as well as "out of battery detonation" to help you figure it out. |
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Posted: 4/3/2017 8:30:34 AM EDT
[#19]
I have found a number of barrels that failed a Go gage check with a high tolerance bolt.
Measured from the back of the lugs to the bolt face the tolerance range for bolts is .153” to .156”. Approximately 40% of the bolts I have bought measured in the high end of the tolerance range. My sample size is too small and scattered over too many years to claim it is representative, but it is more than enough to keep me checking. Factory ammo can easily be several thousandths shorter than minimum weapon headspace. So typical ammo will run just fine if the headspace is only a little out, but get some ammo that is at or near the max tolerance and a person can start seeing various malfunctions. Ever notice that when high pressure ammo gets out only some weapons go KB. Headspace and cartridge specs insure a min length cartridge is safe/functional in a max length chamber and a max length cartridge is safe/functional in a min length chamber. Manufacturers make mistakes and there are a lot of variances in QA out there. I check headspace before installing the barrel. |
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Posted: 4/3/2017 11:14:26 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A quick "peace of mind" without gages is to use known good ammunition (fairly close to a GO gage), and put a piece of cellophane tape on the base. That should add ~0.003" to the cartridge headspace, approximating a NO GO gage.he wilde chamber. |
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Posted: 4/3/2017 9:59:09 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is a pointless endeavor. You are starting with an unknown starting dimension. ? + approximately .003 = ? That equation tells you absolutely nothing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A quick "peace of mind" without gages is to use known good ammunition (fairly close to a GO gage), and put a piece of cellophane tape on the base. That should add ~0.003" to the cartridge headspace, approximating a NO GO gage.he wilde chamber. That hillbilly headspace check is a comparator method, good for the ammunition intended to use in the rifle. Is that a hard concept? |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 4:53:25 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Use a go and a no-go. One maximum gauge is pointless. When building a brand new rifle from all new parts, or reaming a chamber, a GO gauge is a good idea. Dealing with used parts, a NO-GO and/or Field Gauge is more than adequate. If you want to only buy one, the Field Gauge is the best to buy. |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 3:15:17 PM EDT
[#23]
A Go gage is used to make sure the headspace is at min or greater.
A No-go gage is used to make sure a new barrel has enough headspace to ensure it will have a reasonable service life. The Field gage is used to make sure a barrel/bolt that failed a No-go gage is safe to shoot. |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 11:26:48 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Huh? How so? When building a brand new rifle from all new parts, or reaming a chamber, a GO gauge is a good idea. Dealing with used parts, a NO-GO and/or Field Gauge is more than adequate. If you want to only buy one, the Field Gauge is the best to buy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Use a go and a no-go. One maximum gauge is pointless. When building a brand new rifle from all new parts, or reaming a chamber, a GO gauge is a good idea. Dealing with used parts, a NO-GO and/or Field Gauge is more than adequate. If you want to only buy one, the Field Gauge is the best to buy. If you want to check one end of the head space equation and not the other end, may as well not check it at all. Not enough head space, or too tight, not good. Too much head space, or too loose, not good. Why bother checking just one? If that is what you do, well it's a free country, but it doesn't mean it makes good sense. |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 4:18:21 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That hillbilly headspace check is a comparator method, good for the ammunition intended to use in the rifle. Is that a hard concept? A go gauge measures 1.4636, a no-go is 1.4666. lets say the live round (that right there ought to be enough to tell you that this is not a good idea) that you happen to select falls right in the between, with a datum point of 1.4646 or 1.4656. What happens when you add your .003 tape? You are now at 1.4676 or 1.4686 which is too much headspace. So what has the tape method told us? Nothing. |
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Posted: 4/10/2017 3:52:38 PM EDT
[#26]
Once you buy the gauges you can then buy those expensive helper tools to take your bolt apart. Can't remember the company, but one of the big ones has a special tool for everything imaginable and you MUST have it. Probably even sell a tool to properly take the cartridges out of the box.
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Posted: 4/10/2017 6:21:27 PM EDT
[#27]
When I started this forum the consensus was you didn't need gauges, funny how things change. I ordered a set, but I'm a tool guy. Still don't think they're necessary. Any new or suspect/worn gun you should fire one shot and check the brass.
I doubt you can find a single story of a person having out of spec headspace causing a KB on a new gun, or used for that matter. |
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