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Posted: 3/16/2017 2:10:09 AM EDT
[#1]
hit character limit.
wanted to add: As I said before, not looking for a true mk12 clone, but I figured I need to spend some reasonable money on the barrel and trigger to get a decent rifle built. I can add optics later on, I like shooting iron sights. Currently have a few rifles (mosin nagants, saiga, etc) mostly shoot pistol and clays (remington 1100, sigs and 1911), so this is very new for me as a platform. |
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Posted: 3/16/2017 10:47:07 AM EDT
[#2]
IMO, it really comes down to your preference. Not much of a difference from 16-18". Of course that is from a guy who only has AR's that have 14.5" or 20" barrels.
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Posted: 3/16/2017 12:21:56 PM EDT
[#3]
The WOA barrels are really nice and should be pretty accurate. If you wanted to cut costs there are plenty of deals to be had on the equipment exchange.
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Posted: 3/16/2017 11:12:39 PM EDT
[#4]
I like the idea of the equipment exchange but there's a small caveat to it for me. Locally, a gunsmith has offered to price match internet pricing for me, along with allowing me to use his tools to build it, plus supervising the build, and doing a free cerakote on the entire package.
So as much as I'd like to save some money on the equipment through the forum, I'd also like to support the local business, especially with the offer he made me. I don't think it would be fair to ask him to match private party pricing. I guess the better question I should be asking is, what would I lose in going from the spr WOA 18" barrel, or gain in doing the BCM 16 Recce barrel/upper. Is the included muzzle device a valuable add on? Will I see a noticeable gain/loss in accuracy or reliability between the two barrels. |
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Posted: 3/17/2017 8:20:39 AM EDT
[#5]
I choose my build parts based on the anticipated use of the weapon.
However I definitely favor 18” or longer for long range. YMMV |
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Posted: 3/17/2017 5:20:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Just trying to objectively separate 16" and 18" barrels, about the only differences, assuming that they have the same profile, twist rate, chamber configuration and quality, are:
1. The obvious: The 16" build will be shorter, lighter and more maneuverable (like the difference in shotgun barrel lengths) 2. The 18" barrel will have slightly higher velocity, shooting the same ammunition, perhaps 50-75 fps. The increase in velocity is probably not significant unless you are shooting waaaaay out there and trying to keep a bullet supersonic beyond about 700 yards. It will also have a little more retained energy downrange, also not significant unless you are trying to hunt larger animals like deer at the outside limit of ethical shooting distance. I may be biased, but I've never seen the need for going to an 18" barrel. Others will disagree. I respect that. I have nothing against 18" barrels, but just don't find any benefit for my purposes. I think a Recon (Recce) profile 16" (heavy under the handguard) will do anything of practical importance that an 18" will do in a handier package. The best Recce barrels are incredibly accurate (Kreiger, Lilja, Douglas and such), far more than most of us can ever use, myself perhaps as the chief example. I'm a more often than not 3/4 MOA shooter with a 1/2 MOA or better barrel. If you want to maximize velocity, and really need it, go to a 20" or longer barrel and know it will not be very maneuverable. Just one opinion . . . |
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Posted: 3/17/2017 6:49:42 PM EDT
[#7]
They say it isn't the size of your barrel that matters but how you use it.
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Posted: 3/18/2017 2:10:26 AM EDT
[#8]
So based on the answers so far, 16" should be fine.
Next question is more "logistical" If I buy the BCM prebuilt upper, for $684 I get the upper, barrel, BCG, gas tube, and pinned FSB/gas block with a free BCM mod 0 compensator. I wanted to install a free float hand guard anyway, and was looking at doing a low profile gas block (potentially) adjustable. Do I order the package deal and just cut the FSB to get the pinned "low profile" gas block by default, or am I better off buying all the above parts separately, and having a true gas block installed? The cost of doing the latter option would be about $20 more, but would involve not having to grind off the fsb, and I would lose the benefit of having the upper/barrel pre-assembled by them. |
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Posted: 3/20/2017 8:44:53 PM EDT
[#9]
I have a 16" and an 18"
The 18" is a MK12 contour barrel. It is probably a bit on the needlessly heavy side. But it does maintain zero quite well even when hot. The 16" is a much lighter profile, so without the can on the end, it is a somewhat ligther rifle. I almost never shoot it without the can mounted thought. If you may eventually add a suppressor. Absolutely go 16". Otherwise between the two, not much difference. If you are going to add a suppressor, get an adjustable gas block. Otherwise, if you get the BCM, just cut down the pinned FSB for an inexpensive and rock-solid solution. The only reason I went 18" on the one build was to get rifle length gas, to get the softest shooting rifle possible for 3-gun. I'm tempted to cut it to 17" and turn it down a bit, but this barrel is probably more than halfway through it's useful life. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 5:30:02 AM EDT
[#10]
Do I order the package deal and just cut the FSB to get the pinned "low profile" gas block by default, or am I better off buying all the above parts separately, and having a true gas block installed? Ideally, you want the gas block pinned in some fashion. Doesn't mean that set screw gas blocks can't be reliable, it just there is always that possibility of it loosening with time....pinned blocks (when done correctly) aren't moving. Of course, now they make jigs to pin your own low-profile gas block, and I have one that was done on a Ballistic Advantage 17.7" barrel. It uses one single pin through the gas block, but still incorporates the two set screws. As far as barrel length goes, I honestly don't think you will see a lot of difference in usefulness between the two. I have quite a few rifles in 16, 17.7, 18, and 20" barrel lengths, and have them all set up for different purposes. If I could only pick one, though, I would go with the 17.7/18" barrel as it gives the greatest compromise of compactness and velocity. Plus, as mentioned above, it gives you the option of going with mid length or rifle length gas systems (depending on the barrel). |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 8:15:02 AM EDT
[#11]
16 for a handy all around gun, Home defense, truck, etc
18 for varmints, target, range, etc. I would go even shorter if I didn't have to get a stamp every time. |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 9:52:49 PM EDT
[#12]
Go with a 16". There is no reason to ever go with an 18". If you want to go with a longer barrel to increase velocity significantly over the 16" then go with a 20".
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Posted: 3/21/2017 9:55:49 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just trying to objectively separate 16" and 18" barrels, about the only differences, assuming that they have the same profile, twist rate, chamber configuration and quality, are: 1. The obvious: The 16" build will be shorter, lighter and more maneuverable (like the difference in shotgun barrel lengths) 2. The 18" barrel will have slightly higher velocity, shooting the same ammunition, perhaps 50-75 fps. The increase in velocity is probably not significant unless you are shooting waaaaay out there and trying to keep a bullet supersonic beyond about 700 yards. It will also have a little more retained energy downrange, also not significant unless you are trying to hunt larger animals like deer at the outside limit of ethical shooting distance. I may be biased, but I've never seen the need for going to an 18" barrel. Others will disagree. I respect that. I have nothing against 18" barrels, but just don't find any benefit for my purposes. I think a Recon (Recce) profile 16" (heavy under the handguard) will do anything of practical importance that an 18" will do in a handier package. The best Recce barrels are incredibly accurate (Kreiger, Lilja, Douglas and such), far more than most of us can ever use, myself perhaps as the chief example. I'm a more often than not 3/4 MOA shooter with a 1/2 MOA or better barrel. If you want to maximize velocity, and really need it, go to a 20" or longer barrel and know it will not be very maneuverable. Just one opinion . . . |
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Posted: 3/21/2017 10:07:32 PM EDT
[#14]
OP, is there any reason you are not considering a Rainier Arms match barrel? If you are building that is.
I have had three of their match barrels. They are guaranteed to shoot sub MOA with quality match ammo and all 3 of mine have. They run around $260. I always bought the 16" barrel,1-8 twist with the wylde chamber. Don't get me wrong, I love BCM stuff but for the quality and the price the Rainier barrels are tough to beat. Rainier Barrel |
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Posted: 3/22/2017 9:27:50 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP, is there any reason you are not considering a Rainier Arms match barrel? If you are building that is. I have had three of their match barrels. They are guaranteed to shoot sub MOA with quality match ammo and all 3 of mine have. They run around $260. I always bought the 16" barrel,1-8 twist with the wylde chamber. Don't get me wrong, I love BCM stuff but for the quality and the price the Rainier barrels are tough to beat. Rainier Barrel I figured BCM might be a better choice as I cant find "who" makes their barrels, but the discussion around it is that blank provider/white label barrel supplier is higher quality than most. |
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Posted: 3/22/2017 9:29:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ideally, you want the gas block pinned in some fashion. Doesn't mean that set screw gas blocks can't be reliable, it just there is always that possibility of it loosening with time....pinned blocks (when done correctly) aren't moving. Of course, now they make jigs to pin your own low-profile gas block, and I have one that was done on a Ballistic Advantage 17.7" barrel. It uses one single pin through the gas block, but still incorporates the two set screws. As far as barrel length goes, I honestly don't think you will see a lot of difference in usefulness between the two. I have quite a few rifles in 16, 17.7, 18, and 20" barrel lengths, and have them all set up for different purposes. If I could only pick one, though, I would go with the 17.7/18" barrel as it gives the greatest compromise of compactness and velocity. Plus, as mentioned above, it gives you the option of going with mid length or rifle length gas systems (depending on the barrel). what are the odds of that realistically happening? |
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Posted: 3/22/2017 10:05:27 PM EDT
[#17]
what are the odds of that realistically happening? |
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Posted: 3/22/2017 11:36:59 PM EDT
[#18]
I have 16 and 18 builds. My 18" builds are my favorites. If I had to choose one of my rifles, it would be my 18" LaRue Predatar barreled build. It is fairly lightweight and crazy accurate. The best part is the rifle points the best out of all of my builds and handles better than my 16" rifles. If LaRue barrels are still on sale, I would highly suggest looking into them. Also when I bought both my LaRue barrels they had the option to add a Mbt2 trigger for a extra 99.00 if you chose the not rush option. That would save a lot over the geisele trigger for 225 or so.
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Posted: 3/23/2017 12:08:40 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Go with a 16". There is no reason to ever go with an 18". If you want to go with a longer barrel to increase velocity significantly over the 16" then go with a 20". |
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Posted: 4/15/2017 1:29:25 AM EDT
[#20]
ended up getting the WOA SPR Upper, 18" barrel 1/8 twist. Geissele SSAE trigger. Aero Lower. Magpul grip and stock and PSA LPK.
upper is backordered 2-3 weeks, cant wait for this thing to get here! |
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Posted: 4/15/2017 2:42:26 PM EDT
[#21]
Congrats! I love my 18" rifles, the rifle gas system lends itself to a real flat shooting system if you choose to tune it a bit. I think its safe to assume you'll likely be adding a 14.5" or 16" to the collection soon. There is no such thing as only one rifle.
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Posted: 4/16/2017 2:13:04 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Congrats! I love my 18" rifles, the rifle gas system lends itself to a real flat shooting system if you choose to tune it a bit. I think its safe to assume you'll likely be adding a 14.5" or 16" to the collection soon. There is no such thing as only one rifle. 14.5 barrel plus a red dot setup for 3 gun. going to be training all summer with my remington 1100 to beef up my shotgun and reload skills. I average 4/5 in trap with it now but thats single shot and not timed reloads. got any recommendations on the 14.5 barrel? :) |
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Posted: 4/16/2017 9:47:21 PM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 4/20/2017 11:20:49 PM EDT
[#24]
I'll definitely check it out, I've heard lots of good stuff about BA
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Posted: 4/22/2017 8:22:55 AM EDT
[#25]
I'm having difficulty with your spec sheet. BMC makes many different 16" uppers including several variations and barrel choices, profiles, twist rates, materials for their midlength 16s.
What are the barrel specs? Personally I prefer the 16" Recce profile precision barrel to an 18" SPR. It is a matter of honest debate and personal preference. The 16" is more maneuverable, usually a bit lighter, and gives up little in velocity. I went a different way and spec'd the barrel first, bought it separately, and built the upper and lower around it. The barrel I chose was Lilja's 16" M4 Navy Recon barrel they made for NSWC Crane for use by SEALS. It is 1:8 twist, Wylde chamber, 416 stainless. It is a true match barrel, pull button rifled and hand lapped. It is sub 1/2 MOA capable with the right ammo if you are. The barrel is the heart of the build. It was about $500. The trigger I chose is the SSA-E. Pick the free float tube of your choice. The BCG of your choice. The furniture of your choice. Get whatever stripped upper and lower you like, but get good small parts. I used CMMG. |
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Posted: 4/24/2017 12:36:07 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So based on the answers so far, 16" should be fine. Next question is more "logistical" If I buy the BCM prebuilt upper, for $684 I get the upper, barrel, BCG, gas tube, and pinned FSB/gas block with a free BCM mod 0 compensator. I wanted to install a free float hand guard anyway, and was looking at doing a low profile gas block (potentially) adjustable. Do I order the package deal and just cut the FSB to get the pinned "low profile" gas block by default, or am I better off buying all the above parts separately, and having a true gas block installed? The cost of doing the latter option would be about $20 more, but would involve not having to grind off the fsb, and I would lose the benefit of having the upper/barrel pre-assembled by them. There are also more accurate barrels for similar price than.the bcm. Definitely take a step up from the delta team tactical handguard.... one of these things is not like the other.... You could get an ALG handguard for not all that much more |
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Posted: 4/24/2017 1:12:32 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Go with a 16". There is no reason to ever go with an 18". If you want to go with a longer barrel to increase velocity significantly over the 16" then go with a 20". My 16" gets torso sized hits with m193 at 500 yards pretty easily. Past that the magnification is a bigger limiting factor. But i do notice a difference between 16 and 14.5 I notice less of a difference bwtween 12 ans 14.5 than 14.5 and 16 But im at higher elevation. |
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Posted: 4/24/2017 1:14:03 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually, the Rainer Arms match barrel was part of my original build out price (when I had this thing up to like $1800). I figured BCM might be a better choice as I cant find "who" makes their barrels, but the discussion around it is that blank provider/white label barrel supplier is higher quality than most. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
OP, is there any reason you are not considering a Rainier Arms match barrel? If you are building that is. I have had three of their match barrels. They are guaranteed to shoot sub MOA with quality match ammo and all 3 of mine have. They run around $260. I always bought the 16" barrel,1-8 twist with the wylde chamber. Don't get me wrong, I love BCM stuff but for the quality and the price the Rainier barrels are tough to beat. Rainier Barrel I figured BCM might be a better choice as I cant find "who" makes their barrels, but the discussion around it is that blank provider/white label barrel supplier is higher quality than most. |
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Posted: 4/24/2017 1:47:05 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ended up getting the WOA SPR Upper, 18" barrel 1/8 twist. Geissele SSAE trigger. Aero Lower. Magpul grip and stock and PSA LPK. upper is backordered 2-3 weeks, cant wait for this thing to get here! Shoulda read more of thread b4 commenting lol. Which handguard are u getting? Don't cheap out on crap 
Especially with a heavier barrel, you're gonna want something that's not gonna come loose There is a big variance in the quality of attachment points of handguards via the barrel nut. |
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Posted: 4/24/2017 9:49:12 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Awesome combo. U gonna love it. Shoulda read more of thread b4 commenting lol. Which handguard are u getting? Don't cheap out on crap
Especially with a heavier barrel, you're gonna want something that's not gonna come loose There is a big variance in the quality of attachment points of handguards via the barrel nut. |
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Posted: 4/24/2017 10:01:08 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
haha, I'm already thinking about it. 14.5 barrel plus a red dot setup for 3 gun. going to be training all summer with my remington 1100 to beef up my shotgun and reload skills. I average 4/5 in trap with it now but thats single shot and not timed reloads. got any recommendations on the 14.5 barrel? :) |
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Posted: 4/24/2017 10:05:04 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It actually comes with the ALG Defense EMR V3 (M Lok version). I dont know if I love the look, but it feels quality, Really considering selling it and putting on the yankee hill machine handguard instead. |
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Posted: 4/24/2017 10:16:46 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Which yankee hill? I honestly think you might want to shoot it some with the ALG for a while first, before swapping laterally to another hand guard. I agree that they look kind of goofy naked, but plenty of builds look awesome with them. will definitely shoot first. Especially after reading about 5 reviews specifically going from the YHM handguard to the ALG. The weight difference is like 40% less in favor of the ALG. what about flash hiders? Should I stick with the basic A2 it comes with? My buddy keeps going on about the Miculek Comp Also, forgot to mention this.. I called WOA on the 11th, all the stuff was "backordered". They said they literally just got their shipment of parts in for everything. Upper was delivered to my house in 7 days :D I sold the Magpul MOE stock it came with, on here, and upgraded to the CTR instead, and got a primary arms 4-16x scope to start. Plus just ordered 1200 rounds of ammo to get some practice in this weekend :D cant wait to build this thing on wednesday. |
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Posted: 4/26/2017 11:41:43 PM EDT
[#34]
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/69X/Mobile%20Uploads/FDA9D533-04CD-4088-B72B-1F2D0CFAFCD0.jpg
Its officially complete :) weighs in just under 10 pounds with an empty mag seated |
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Posted: 4/27/2017 7:49:21 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/69X/Mobile%20Uploads/FDA9D533-04CD-4088-B72B-1F2D0CFAFCD0.jpg Its officially complete :) weighs in just under 10 pounds with an empty mag seated 
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Posted: 4/27/2017 12:40:00 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here you go image linked. Well-done, sir! Give us a range report and groups with match ammo. Should do quite well. http://rsmg.pbsrc.com/albums/v442/69X/Mobile%20Uploads/FDA9D533-04CD-4088-B72B-1F2D0CFAFCD0.jpg?w=480&h=480&fit=clip Im considering a miculek comp. I also have this grip on my Saiga https://www.atigunstocks.com/x1-pistol-grip?___SID=U considering getting it for this rifle as well. It feels much more "solid" compared to the magpul grip only thing that throws me off is that the scope is mounted so far back that the magpul rear BUIS cant flip up. I wonder if mounting it one slot forward for the scope will be ok |
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Posted: 4/27/2017 1:09:04 PM EDT
[#37]
Yes, you should be able to move the scope forward at least one slot and still have sufficient eye relief. Many here, myself included, run our mid-powered scopes at least an inch more forward of where yours presently is located. I started out with the back of my eyepiece directly over the back of the charge handle but eventually found it worked better an inch or a bit more forward. But this is subjective. It all has to do with getting your eye relief correct for your stock position and cheek weld.
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Posted: 4/28/2017 6:42:42 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, you should be able to move the scope forward at least one slot and still have sufficient eye relief. Many here, myself included, run our mid-powered scopes at least an inch more forward of where yours presently is located. I started out with the back of my eyepiece directly over the back of the charge handle but eventually found it worked better an inch or a bit more forward. But this is subjective. It all has to do with getting your eye relief correct for your stock position and cheek weld. I moved it forward about an inch and a quarter, right before the end of the upper's rail, and it works perfectly now, and I can flip up the rear backup sight without it hitting the scope, so I think its a win. this thing is surprisingly heavy with the scope on, I may want to get a bipod. what do you guys think of the miculek comp? worth the money? |
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