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Posted: 2/9/2017 10:59:22 PM EDT
[#1]
I've used Permatex antiseize before. And yes the grease is there to prevent galling and corrosion between the two dissimilar metals.
Double check that your antisieze doesn't have graphite in it. Graphite is corrosive to aluminum and many antisieze compounds include it. |
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Posted: 2/9/2017 11:07:03 PM EDT
[#2]
Thanks for the quick reply! Not listed on the tube, but I just went to the Permatex site and graphite is one of the ingredients! Will generic high-temp wheel bearing grease do, or can you recommend a suitable brand and model of lube available at auto parts stores?
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Posted: 2/9/2017 11:23:28 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've used Permatex antiseize before. And yes the grease is there to prevent galling and corrosion between the two dissimilar metals. Double check that your antisieze doesn't have graphite in it. Graphite is corrosive to aluminum and many antisieze compounds include it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've used Permatex antiseize before. And yes the grease is there to prevent galling and corrosion between the two dissimilar metals. Double check that your antisieze doesn't have graphite in it. Graphite is corrosive to aluminum and many antisieze compounds include it. This. But I'd use regular wheel bearing grease with no graphite, like a $5 tube. Permatex anti-Seize says this first in it's description, I'd say no go. Or maybe there's another permatex idk about. A highly refined blend of aluminum, copper and graphite lubricants. - See more at: https://www.permatex.com/products/lubricants/specialty-lubricants-anti-seize/permatex-anti-seize-lubricant-2/#sthash.utTpya7l.dpuf |
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Posted: 2/9/2017 11:39:14 PM EDT
[#4]
I have used hi temp WB grease in the past with no issues (>5-700 rds) .
That being said, get some Aeroshell 33ms, especially if you plan on running your build long term. |
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Posted: 2/9/2017 11:41:58 PM EDT
[#5]
It doesn't matter.
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Posted: 2/9/2017 11:55:14 PM EDT
[#6]
I use purple moly grease for my uppers, no problems at all, no graphite in it and it works for rebuilding the wheel bearings on my various cars, a 1 pound tin will last forever! just a bit over $3.50 at Autozone or O'Reilly's auto.
You don't need very much to do an upper. |
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Posted: 2/10/2017 12:26:03 AM EDT
[#7]
I'll stop by a auto parts store tomorrow after work and see if I can find the moly grease without graphite, otherwise may just use the wheel bearing grease.
Thanks for all the feedback! |
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Posted: 2/10/2017 1:31:10 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It doesn't matter. THIS. I've used the MS33, White Lithium grease, even synthetic motor oil... doesn't matter. The lube just keeps the threads from galling, and helps disassembly (if your concerned about that) of barrel later. Some will say the type of lube effects the torque rating... well I'd love to see how a miniscule difference make a damn bit of difference with something that has a 30-80 ft/lb wide rating 
Some will also say "well Mil spec is MS33"... and they probably still wear mil spec underwear too. Times change, mil spec is not the only answer (nor not always the best option). Mil spec is the "safe bet", but there are more ways to do the same thing. (enter mil spec Nazi's....) 
I would never install a barrel "dry"... but I certainly wouldn't lose sleep over which "lube" I used to install it. |
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Posted: 2/10/2017 1:35:36 AM EDT
[#9]
I would stick to spec. use the moly. why build a rifle or service a rifle and use the incorrect stuff. imho its just lazy, do it right
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Posted: 2/10/2017 1:51:18 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would stick to spec. use the moly. why build a rifle or service a rifle and use the incorrect stuff. imho its just lazy, do it right "why" is probably the same reason most people ignore their truck/car manuals recommended brand oil, filter, lubricant brand. Or their dentists recommended brand toothpaste or brush, or... well you get the point. Just like "mil spec", everyone needs to recommend something (specifically). The military had to specify a type of grease (for their manual)... so MS33 it was. Does that mean it's the only thing that will work?.. nope (not even close). |
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Posted: 2/10/2017 2:07:03 AM EDT
[#11]
I use Mobile 1 red wheel bearing grease. No issues.
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Posted: 2/10/2017 2:55:25 AM EDT
[#12]
For antseize I use ws2 (tungsten disulfide)
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Posted: 2/10/2017 3:36:37 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would stick to spec. use the moly. why build a rifle or service a rifle and use the incorrect stuff. imho its just lazy, do it right There is no such thing as just right, in fact when it comes to .mil spec, most of the time, that means it is the least expensive lowest common denominator, not the "best" Since the manual was wrote a lot of things have been highly improved. |
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Posted: 2/10/2017 7:47:05 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It doesn't matter. unless it contains graphite. 
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Posted: 2/10/2017 8:34:08 AM EDT
[#15]
I used permatex on a couple of builds years ago.
I took them apart last year to check on them. No sign of corrosion at all, and they unscrewed just fine. |
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Posted: 2/10/2017 9:18:58 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I used permatex on a couple of builds years ago. I took them apart last year to check on them. No sign of corrosion at all, and they unscrewed just fine. I've seen the same with blue loctite 
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Posted: 2/10/2017 9:40:49 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I used permatex on a couple of builds years ago. I took them apart last year to check on them. No sign of corrosion at all, and they unscrewed just fine. THIS, anti seize gets put on Aluminum parts every day with no issues in the mechanic world. I've used it on my AR's without issues as well. |
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Posted: 2/10/2017 11:38:17 AM EDT
[#18]
Some say contains synthetic graphite. What the heck is synthetic graphite?
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Posted: 2/10/2017 11:42:26 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some say contains synthetic graphite. What the heck is synthetic graphite? Asbury carbons link |
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Posted: 2/10/2017 11:46:24 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
unless it contains graphite. Nah. Even if it does.... I'd argue it's all in theory... and nobody has really seen any issues due to corrosion from a lubricant contain graphite. |
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Posted: 2/10/2017 12:40:49 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nah. Even if it does.... I'd argue it's all in theory... and nobody has really seen any issues due to corrosion from a lubricant contain graphite. As a rule, it's frowned upon. That being said, I agree. The hard anodizing serves as a sufficient barrier in the mitigation of galvanic (bimetallic) corrosion on aluminum caused by graphite contact. mil- STD- 889 details this. |
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Posted: 2/10/2017 5:27:53 PM EDT
[#22]
Some of the military rifles were going to be exposed to conditions civilian rifles would never see.
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Posted: 2/10/2017 6:15:24 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nah. Even if it does.... I'd argue it's all in theory... and nobody has really seen any issues due to corrosion from a lubricant contain graphite. The odd thing to me is that I was always told to use antisieze on sparkplugs in an aluminum block, but people say it's corrosive to aluminum... 
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Posted: 2/10/2017 10:46:38 PM EDT
[#24]
Graphite in itself is not corrisive to aluminum. But in the presence of chloride ions (sea water/marine atmosphere ), can cause galvanic corrosion.
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Posted: 2/11/2017 2:14:11 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Graphite in itself is not corrisive to aluminum. But in the presence of chloride ions (sea water/marine atmosphere ), can cause galvanic corrosion. However not when mixed with other things, as studies may suggest. |
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Posted: 2/11/2017 11:05:55 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
However not when mixed with other things, as studies may suggest. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Graphite in itself is not corrisive to aluminum. But in the presence of chloride ions (sea water/marine atmosphere ), can cause galvanic corrosion. However not when mixed with other things, as studies may suggest. True. And mine will most likely never experience exposure to chloride ions. Just nice to know where the mindset started.
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Posted: 2/11/2017 10:38:11 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I use Mobile 1 red wheel bearing grease. No issues. I used this on my first two builds, zero issues, I did get a small tub [4 oz] of the aeroshell 33ms when I was ordering some stuff, but the red mobile 1 is fine..... |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 9:49:37 AM EDT
[#28]
I use mil-spec grease on general principle.
I order all of my AR parts anyway so it is just another order if it ever looks like I am getting low. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 11:18:37 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I use mil-spec grease on general principle. I order all of my AR parts anyway so it is just another order if it ever looks like I am getting low. This is pretty much me, and way back I bought a 14 oz tube of AeroShell 33MS, so I pretty much never have to worry about my great grand kids needing barrel nut grease. However, the grease you use is NOT a big deal. Use a quality grease, and I'd shy away from "the cheapest axle grease you can find" (not just on principle - I don't trust "Overseas-Mart" products to always be what they say they are). If I were starting again, I'd probably look for Dow G-N Assembly Paste. It may not be "MIL-SPEC" for the AR, but it seems to be what "big, well respected names" in the Black Rifle are using in their factories. |
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Posted: 2/15/2017 3:19:40 AM EDT
[#30]
Anti seize here. It's used for aluminium / steel parts threading together all the time. Like steel spark plugs threaded in to aluminium cylinder heads.
You could use just about any kind of lubricant and it would be fine. |
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Posted: 2/15/2017 3:26:09 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The odd thing to me is that I was always told to use antisieze on sparkplugs in an aluminum block, but people say it's corrosive to aluminum... That is because none of the automotive engineers have searched this site to see how big of a problem it really is. If they had simply done a search they would not recommend anti seize on spark plugs. |
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Posted: 2/15/2017 1:06:06 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The odd thing to me is that I was always told to use antisieze on sparkplugs in an aluminum block, but people say it's corrosive to aluminum... FWIW, I was told not to use anti-seize on spark plugs in aluminum heads because it could cause the torque to change. I don't know how true that is. I also use Permatex anti-seize while assembling my ARs. No problems encountered. |
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Posted: 2/15/2017 1:12:40 PM EDT
[#33]
I have built hundreds of AR's over the years (was a type 7 ffl). I use high temp bearing grease.
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Posted: 2/15/2017 1:50:57 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is because none of the automotive engineers have searched this site to see how big of a problem it really is. If they had simply done a search they would not recommend anti seize on spark plugs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The odd thing to me is that I was always told to use antisieze on sparkplugs in an aluminum block, but people say it's corrosive to aluminum... That is because none of the automotive engineers have searched this site to see how big of a problem it really is. If they had simply done a search they would not recommend anti seize on spark plugs. That should change now. This thread should enable them to find it with a google search.
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Posted: 2/17/2017 11:42:10 PM EDT
[#35]
Honda moly 60 at your local motorcycle dealer.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 7:19:28 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the quick reply! Not listed on the tube, but I just went to the Permatex site and graphite is one of the ingredients! Will generic high-temp wheel bearing grease do, or can you recommend a suitable brand and model of lube available at auto parts stores? As to graphite causing corrosion ..... it's pure carbon. You know, as in the basic element that is in EVERYTHING. As in the stuff that builds up in your receiver while shooting. Different physical structure, which is why carbon buildup from shooting doesn't lubricate like graphite, but elementally still just carbon.
Galvanic corrosion can happen between any dissimilar metals that are mated to one another. Graphite by itself is unable to prevent galvanic corrosion, but it doesn't cause it, either. Other ingredients in the anti-seize compound serve to seal out oxygen, water vapor, etc. (you know, the usual rust contributors) in order to prevent the galvanic corrosion between the aluminum and steel parts. I saw a study a few years ago comparing different compounds. They were set between aluminum and steel plates and exposed to sea water over time. None of the commercially made and available compounds actually increased the corrosion. All of them reduced it quite a bit. The main thing to avoid for ingredients is anything that will significantly dissipate over time, such as through evaporation. Knowing what I do about military logistics, the reason for Aeroshell 33 being the mil-spec product, is probably because it was the most suitable product already in use within the military system and inventory. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 12:15:51 PM EDT
[#37]
I would think these guys would know more than me about this topic.
https://www.permatex.com/products/lubricants/specialty-lubricants-anti-seize/permatex-anti-seize-lubricant-2/ |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 3:50:12 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The hard anodizing serves as a sufficient barrier in the mitigation of galvanic (bimetallic) corrosion on aluminum caused by graphite contact under certain conditions. mil- STD- 889 details this. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 7:58:23 PM EDT
[#39]
I've worked on vessels for twenty-five years and have yet to see any issues from the use of anti-seize of any kind.
Most 'Marine Grade' anti-seize even has the graphite in it just like the standard stuff. The main thing is preventing direct metal to metal contact during assembly and after. The grease also helps to repel water. Almost every fastener I've ever broken or had to drill out did not have evidence of anything on it. The worst cases I've seen weren't even steel or stainless steel on aluminum, but stainless on stainless galling. Discussions like this one are mostly academic with very little actual factual experience. I guess if one were to use pure powdered graphite then immersed the assembly in saltwater they might obtain the results so many are expecting. The reality is no one so far has stated they have done it.
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Posted: 2/21/2017 9:57:48 PM EDT
[#40]
Just order the aeroshell 33ms off amazon. Sorry for the cold linkhttps://www.amazon.com/Umbrella-AeroShell-Grease-MIL-SPEC-Barrel/dp/B01GGQV34I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1487728587&sr=8-1&keywords=Ucwrg&tag=vglnk-c102-20 33ms&tag=vglnk-c102-20
Amazon prime free 2 day shipping. I got mine in 2 days. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 10:32:53 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've worked on vessels for twenty-five years and have yet to see any issues from the use of anti-seize of any kind. Most 'Marine Grade' anti-seize even has the graphite in it just like the standard stuff. The main thing is preventing direct metal to metal contact during assembly and after. The grease also helps to repel water. Almost every fastener I've ever broken or had to drill out did not have evidence of anything on it. The worst cases I've seen weren't even steel or stainless steel on aluminum, but stainless on stainless galling. Discussions like this one are mostly academic with very little actual factual experience. I guess if one were to use pure powdered graphite then immersed the assembly in saltwater they might obtain the results so many are expecting. The reality is no one so far has stated they have done it. Plain graphite tends to "pull" moisture from the atmosphere. This allows it to become an electrolyte and facilitate galvanic corrosion where aluminum and steel come in contact. I've seen it - NOT in an AR! - and it's pretty nasty. But graphite in a grease is anything but "plain," and not likely to have anything to do with galvanic corrosion. My biggest gripe with using most graphite-bearing greases is that they are cheap. Not just inexpensive. They often depend on the graphite for more of its lubricative properties, and slack on the quality of the grease base. If I was looking for an inexpensive grease for barrel nuts, I'd start with a synthetic, lithium-based grease. Molybdenum disulfide helps provide lubricity under higher loads and at higher temperatures, so a MS2 type grease would be great. But keep in mind that it looks like the whole purpose of the barrel nut grease is as an assembly lubricant. It allows the nut to slide on the upper's threads while the torque is applied, which spreads out the load and helps the nut clamp on the upper without dragging or galling. |
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